Trump is going to win the election

[Something Funny]

@Starlight321 I think that she is justified in how she feels because there were issues with how Leo brought this topic up.

[Leo Gura]

@Emerald I was never in an argument with you. And I do not care about winning anything here.

[Something Funny]

16 minutes ago, Starlight321 said:

@Something Funny if you get really conscious you can easily spot deception mechanisms. This faculty is dependent upon consciousness and the ability to lay aside one's pov. That is what leo is trying to tell you. I myself am often of not able to do this but over the last few months I raised my awareness and starting to see it too.

The way I see it, the moment when you start thinking that you are really conscious and can easily spot deception, is the moment when you become the most vulnerable to getting deceived.

I prefer to stay humble and only take life advice from people who I respect and who I know have high integrity.

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, Starlight321 said:

Leo's defeniately changed and matured a lot over the years and is actually trying to help you.

You can clearly not see things as they are and meant. This here isn't meant to be a debate but to find out what is true.

He's the same as I remember him.

If he's supposedly trying to help me, he needs to be specific and be more intellectually honest in his tactics... without grandstanding and throwing out all sorts of judgments and assumptions about me and my paradigm.

But it's pretty condescending in the first place for him to assume he needs to teach me how to be 'higher consciousness like him' because I rightly pointed out instances of Elon Musk's dishonesty on a thread comparing and contrasting Musk with Trump.

He's basically saying, "Get on my level... ya' dum dum." And he's counting that as a mic drop moment.

[DocWatts]

Learn Spiral Dynamics, and then set it aside IMHO.

If you rely too much on it, it can become a form of epistemological bypassing.

Edited August 13 by DocWatts

[Starlight321]

Just now, Something Funny said:

The way I see it, the moment when you start thinking that you are really conscious and can easily spot deception, is the moment when you become the most vulnerable to getting deceived.

I prefer to stay humble and only take life advice from people who I respect and who I know have high integrity.

That because it's really looking that way to you because there is like a leap in awareness and recognition where you see more about ones own constructions and of others. Then you can spot these things but still miss the finer ones.

[Emerald]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Emerald I was never in an argument with you. And I do not care about winning anything here.

 

[Emerald]

4 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

Learn Spiral Dynamics, and then set it aside IMHO.

If you rely too much on it, it can become a form of epistemological bypassing.

Definitely true.

[Something Funny]

5 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

If you rely too much on it, it can become a form of epistemological bypassing.

What's epistemological bypassing?

[Forestluv]

The most revealing aspect I notice from Elon: He stated that the government should create a commission that monitors how tax dollars are spent. On the surface, this might seem reasonable - yet it is completely opposite the conservative positions of deregulation and small government. More strikingly, Elon then volunteered to "help" with organizing and implementing this new tax monitoring commission. To me, that was revealed some of Musk's underlying desires - to gain more power in government money flow. , , 

As well, he proposed that he was "moderate" and leaned left. That might be true for some issues, yet I don't see him left-leaning overall - especially in regards to corporate issues.

Also, Elon spent a lot of time framing messages for Trump.

Overall, I got the sense Musk was trying to portray himself as a regular, moderate guy that wants the same stuff we all do (such as being safe in our cities). There might be some genuineness to that, yet I also got the sense of him trying to portray a moderate / reasonable character with an underlying desire to gain more influence / power into a potential Trump presidency. (which is true for lots of different people / groups - both on Kamala's side and Trump's side).

 

[Emerald]

2 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

What's epistemological bypassing?

Like overlooking basic truths and realities because of having your paradigm wrapped up too much in the intellectual model of Spiral Dynamics.

For example, if you point out objective instances of things like racism, for example.

And the person who is wrapped up in the Spiral Dynamics model sees that only as stage green delusion and blots that reality out of their awareness because it doesn't fit with their understanding of the model.

Or if a Stage Blue person points out the importance of traditions as a method of group cohesion. And the Spiral Dynamics model bypasser views that only as Stage Blue delusion because of their understanding of the model.

It's basically where the model overtakes your ability to see things for what they are.

[Something Funny]

@Emerald I see, ok.

[Talinn]

I mean nothing is really gained from bashing Musk on the internet, but I view him as a kind of avatar or representation for Americans' inner greed, to the extent that he built his life in a way that some Americans aspire to...

Musk does have a massive drive to help humanity and he does have some type of obsession to see it in the best place that it can be, but this casts a shadow over his family and social life. He has over 20-30 kids in addition to the time he spends with his company. When he took his 2 or 3 year-old to Auchwitz, which has disturbing images and is not a place for kids to be, I viewed him primarily negatively. You can have bad politics and a good family and professional life, and I'll still have some measure of respect for some person. But when you throw everything on the altar of "trying to help humanity" while being a terrible parent, that doesn't sit well with me. Then you're playing a pure numbers game where people are  like, "oh well he's helping lots of people through Tesla and SpaceX, it's okay if he's not the best parent, nobody is". No - his parenting is atrocious! Then these same people turn around, Musk himself, say other people are terrible parents. And he's also helping getting Trump get elected which would be so awful, it'd at least balance out all the good that he's supposedly doing. And he already turned Twitter into a right wing social media website.

It's almost like people wish they could be such shitty fathers or husbands, and be so materialistically wealthy, that they look up to Musk. Which frankly is sickening.

But in this moment, as reality stands, maybe he still has done some net good for humanity. But the tide is swiftly turning on that count.

 

[Bobby_2021]

19 minutes ago, Emerald said:

basically saying, "Get on my level... ya' dum dum." And he's counting that as a mic drop moment.

He indeed does that to be frank.

I don't have a problem with it if his takes were actually superior and elaborated it clearly. But none of that is the case.

I think it's because he had got jaded from reading retarded comments over the years that he couldn't recognise an actually intelligent take.

Edit: Don't take it too seriously. He is struggling to make sense of reality like everyone else and is also battling with issues of his own so mistakes are to be expected. He isn't perfect. Nobody is.

Edited August 13 by Bobby_2021

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, Bobby_2021 said:

He indeed does that to be frank.

I don't have a problem with it if his takes were actually superior and elaborated it clearly. But none of that is the case.

I think it's because he had got jaded from reading retarded comments over the years that he couldn't recognise an actually intelligent take.

That's my issue with it too. I'd be fine if he were actually taking specific swings at what I'm saying, as I like to be challenged and to spar it out.

It's just unearned when there's nothing there but vague grandstanding and claims that his view is higher consciousness and that I'm the closed minded lower consciousness one.

There's nothing there to learn or work with.

[CARDOZZO]

Imagine that you have $200MM on your account and then you put all money on 2 hardcore industries. (Rockets/Electric Cars)

Just the act can speak more than 1000 words.

Musk is foolish politically but he is not a bad guy/conartist.

He is playing the game to maximize his chances to make the world electric and go to mars.

[Leo Gura]

@Emerald You literally wanted me to debate you. I wisely refused. Now I am the scapegoat.

All that noise just avoid watching some videos.

Sigh...

[Talinn]

26 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

Learn Spiral Dynamics, and then set it aside IMHO.

If you rely too much on it, it can become a form of epistemological bypassing.

Yeah spiral dynamics is used too much in this forum.

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

@Emerald You literally wanted me to debate you. I wisely refused. Now I am the scapegoat.

All that noise just avoid watching some videos.

Sigh...

Teach me your ways, oh exasperated wise one. As your humble student, I apologize for my recalcitrance.  

[Joshe]

36 minutes ago, Emerald said:

So, Leo is correct in saying that my stated perspective is stage green regarding Elon Musk because I am focused on his level of honesty. But that's because I'm deciding to play the game as I am looking from the perspective of the human player and not the creator... as I see that as far wiser than sitting the game out and being "above it". 

From the perspective as the creator... Elon Musk is an important part of the game play. And while his actions are neither good nor bad in the absolute, his contributions to the system of reality create a ripple effect that is part and parcel to the gameplay.

From the perspective of the player however... he's a character in the gameplay that you can't always trust to be honest but can provide you with some resources. And I have to admit, as the player, he's not my favorite character in the game.

Exactly. This perspective transcends stage green's paradigm lock. To call it stage green doesn't make sense to me, which is why I said, jokingly, funny how stage green can see through stage yellow. It’s probably an easy trap to fall into: if you see many stage green people demonizing Musk, and then you see a stage yellow person doing the same, you might mistakenly label them as green—i.e., blinded by bias. I don't think Leo is any less evolved because he calls Trump a devil. He would say he does so consciously. And I say I am doing the same to Musk. 

But all of this is irrelevant. It all comes down to reads. Not spiral dynamics. I give people here the benefit of the doubt that they aren't operating on deep bias. 

We all know where there is deep and common deception, there is deep selfishness and uncommon selflessness.

If I can show evidence that suggests off-the-chart levels of deception, this is antagonistic to the perspective that Musk deeply cares about humanity.

I have questioned my reads and will look deeper to see if they were skewed. But I wonder if Leo has questioned his. Could he have missed something?