Trump is going to win the election

[Something Funny]

@Leo Gura <3

[Leo Gura]

Something I did was just sit down and watch Musk talk without judging him, really seeing the world from his POV. Dare I say, empathize with him.

If you actually do that you will have an experience very different from all the leftist moralizing.

That would be transcending the Green narrative.

And this doesn't mean I support Musk's politics.

Edited August 13 by Leo Gura

[Something Funny]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Something I did was just sit down and watch Musk talk without judging him, really seeing the world from his POV. Dare I say, empathize with him.

If you actually do that you will have an experience very different from all the leftist moralizing.

That would be transcending the Green narrative.

And this doesn't mean I support Musk's politics.

I think that's an amazing thing to practice.

I feel like if you put it in those words from the beginning, just being neutral and sharing your experience, more people would be open to trying it.

[Starlight321]

 

 

it's a short clip but recaps the gist of what is missed. 

here you go

 

 

Edited August 13 by Starlight321

[Joshe]

It seems like Leo is saying our assessment of reality regarding Musk is inaccurate and the reason it's inaccurate is our biased worldviews. So the meta issue is we're seeing reality wrong because we've unwittingly made judgements from unconscious bias. This seems incredibly presumptuous.

What if I'm just looking at the evidence and then using that evidence to peg Musk at a particular point on the scale of deception/evil? I don't care where he lands on this scale. Pegging him on the scale is the point of disagreement. If you can show why he doesn't deserve a high rank high on my scale, I will gladly move him down. I've yet to watch videos to straighten out my supposed bias, but I will. 

I've judged Elon as exceptionally deceptive because I think I've objectively observed that and it cannot be negated by any video of him getting emotional. He deceives with intent, not unwittingly, and often. That is my claim, which is supported by ample evidence that I do not think is tainted with bias. 

We can do loving-kindness meditation all day on Trump and Hitler and Elon. But that doesn't change what the reality is. I just care about what is actually true of reality. 

Edited August 13 by Joshe

[Something Funny]

2 minutes ago, Joshe said:

I've judged Elon as exceptionally deceptive because I think I've objectively observed that. He deceives with intent, not unwittingly, and often. That is my claim, which is supported by ample evidence that I do not think is tainted with bias. 

@Starlight321 I think this is the issue some people might have with those kinds of videos. If you caught Elon being dishonest before, how do you know if any of that is true or if he is saying it to make himself look good?

 

[Emerald]

4 minutes ago, Joshe said:

I've noticed this tactic as well. Strange how stage green can see through stage yellow! 

It's more of the ability to shift perspectives from absolute to relative.

Consider a video game... and the perspective of the game designer versus the perspective of the person playing the game.

If you're designing a video game... you want there to be obstacles for the playable characters to face. Otherwise, the game isn't interesting and it's too easy.

So, in that sense, the duality of good and bad is necessary for interesting game play.

So... both "good guys" and "bad guys" are necessary to play a good game. And the goodness of the game transcends the goodness of the good guys and the badness of the bad guys and included both.

But if you are playing the game... you want to defeat the bad guys and for good to win and justice to prevail.

The same is true also from the perspective of the author versus the perspective of the reader.

Stage Green (like all other previous phases) tends to focus on the good guys and bad guys in the game as an absolute. And they want to ban or eliminate the "bad" guys in the way their stage on the Spiral defines it. They get wrapped up in the perspective of the reader without thinking about why the author wrote the book that way in the first place.

But Stage Yellow and Turquoise is thinking like a video game designer in the sense that they recognize moral grayness and imperfections are an important part of the game play.

So, Leo is correct in saying that my stated perspective is stage green regarding Elon Musk because I am focused on his level of honesty. But that's because I'm deciding to play the game as I am looking from the perspective of the human player and not the creator... as I see that as far wiser than sitting the game out and being "above it". 

From the perspective as the creator... Elon Musk is an important part of the game play. And while his actions are neither good nor bad in the absolute, his contributions to the system of reality create a ripple effect that is part and parcel to the gameplay.

From the perspective of the player however... he's a character in the gameplay that you can't always trust to be honest but can provide you with some resources. And I have to admit, as the player, he's not my favorite character in the game.

[Emerald]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Something I did was just sit down and watch Musk talk without judging him, really seeing the world from his POV. Dare I say, empathize with him.

If you actually do that you will have an experience very different from all the leftist moralizing.

That would be transcending the Green narrative.

And this doesn't mean I support Musk's politics.

I wasn't talking about his politics. I was talking about him lying.

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Emerald said:

I was talking about him lying.

So what?

That is irrelvant.

It doesn't mean you understand him.

You are too busy judging reality to see it for what it is.

Edited August 13 by Leo Gura

[Something Funny]

@Leo Gura what things about Elon did you emphasize with the most?

[Starlight321]

@Something Funny if you get really conscious you can easily spot deception mechanisms. This faculty is dependent upon consciousness and the ability to lay aside one's pov. That is what leo is trying to tell you. I myself am often of not able to do this but over the last few months I raised my awareness and starting to see it too.

The issue is literally this:

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

So what?

That is irrelvant.

It doesn't mean you understand him.

You are too busy judging reality to see it for what it is.

 

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

@Leo Gura what things about Elon did you emphasize with the most?

Musk deeply cares about what's best for humanity.

[Emerald]

29 minutes ago, Starlight321 said:

He did, but that and honesty and not playing games looks to stage green like blue or orange or even red. He isn't even interested in debates or winning those because it's futile.

First off, no he didn't because he said nothing specific. And he's treating it like a slam dunk.

And secondly, yes he is interested in debates and winning. That's why he argues so much. And it's clear that one of his things is being the one who's right and who knows better.

And as a fellow lover of arguments, debates, and winning... game recognizes game.

But I don't like this below the belt sparring. I like to keep it honest. And I will call out a dishonest debate tactic every time because it is one of my biggest pet peeves.

Like playing chess with someone... and they flip the board over when they're about to lose.

And then they claim that they win anyway and that playing chess is low consciousness behavior and that we were actually playing hopscotch. 

And his statement that he's not interested in debates and winning is just another tactic to try to flip the board and move the goal posts and wiggle out of losing the debate.

[Bobby_2021]

3 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Like playing chess with someone... and they flip the board over when they're about to lose.

And then they claim that they win anyway and that playing chess is low consciousness behavior and that we were actually playing hopscotch. 

Postmodern deconstruction gymnastics in a nutshell.

[Joshe]

2 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

@Starlight321 I think this is the issue some people might have with those kinds of videos. If you caught Elon being dishonest before, how do you know if any of that is true or if he is saying it to make himself look good?

 

EXACTLY! An intelligent person wouldn't write Musk off as a total bad-actor for one or two deceptions here and there. But they would if the deceptions were common and intentional.

[Something Funny]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Musk deeply cares about what's best for humanity.

Okay. I will try to notice that.

I know you said that that JP interview is not serious, but there they were talking about Musk's AI. Jordan Peterson was asking him about the dangers of AI and Elon acknowledged them, but used the standard justification about how it's going to be developed either way, so I might as well participate and make sure that it's done right.

When it came down to specific of what it means to "do it right", it boiled down to them thinking that the main issue is that ChatGPT is too woke and that they need to find a way to make sure that their AI doesn't catch this woke virus...

I guess my point is that how do you look at someone separately from their politics when "politics", in a broad sense, guide their every decision.

 

Edited August 13 by Something Funny

[Starlight321]

7 minutes ago, Emerald said:

First off, no he didn't because he said nothing specific. And he's treating it like a slam dunk.

And secondly, yes he is interested in debates and winning. That's why he argues so much. And it's clear that one of his things is being the one who's right and who knows better.

And as a fellow lover of arguments, debates, and winning... game recognizes game.

But I don't like this below the belt sparring. I like to keep it honest. And I will call out a dishonest debate tactic every time because it is one of my biggest pet peeves.

Like playing chess with someone... and they flip the board over when they're about to lose.

And then they claim that they win anyway and that playing chess is low consciousness behavior and that we were actually playing hopscotch. 

And his statement that he's not interested in debates and winning is just another tactic to try to flip the board and move the goal posts and wiggle out of losing the debate.

 

Leo's defeniately changed and matured a lot over the years and is actually trying to help you.

You can clearly not see things as they are and meant. This here isn't meant to be a debate but to find out what is true.

You would have to surrender your fighting mindset in order to see it.

Edited August 13 by Starlight321

[Emerald]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

So what?

That is irrelvant.

It doesn't mean you understand him.

You are too busy judging reality to see it for what it is.

That was what the previous conversation was about. And you burst into it saying we were in an Elon trash-talking circle jerk or something.

So, it was you that side-tracked the original discussion with things that are off-topic. And mentioning his instances of dishonesty was on topic for the original response

The fact of the matter is that I was just stating facts about Elon Musk in that context... facts that you just now conceded that you agree with.

And you keep grandstanding with all these assumptions about my perspective because I (rightly) pointed out instances of Musk's dishonesty.

The fact of the matter is that don't know what my perspective on reality is. You just didn't like that I said something true and negative about Elon and you're projecting your ideas about stage green unconsciousness onto me.

[Something Funny]

1 minute ago, Starlight321 said:

 

Leo's defeniately changed and matured a lot over the years and is actually trying to help you.

You can clearly not see things as they are and meant. This here isn't meant to be a debate but to find out what is true.

Don't gaslight her.

[Starlight321]

@Something Funny

I don't mean to. But it's true and many here are gaslighting and projecting onto leo. 

Edited August 13 by Starlight321