Is Reality itself Dual? Isn't Love a result of Separation and hence a Trap?

[Keryo Koffa]

The mind that makes distinctions creates duality, sure, but isn't the existence of the reality that gives rise to dual concepts itself a metaphysical separation of forms? Doesn't awareness predispose duality and love predispose separation to be channeled between forms within consciousness? If so, isn't love itself a trap, as it requires separate forms to exist between, hence reinforcing the separation? I say this, because this forum seems to point towards a return to Unity, pure undivided being.

One way I can understand this, is that we should only care about the duality within mind, not the duality between metaphysical forms. But isn't "as above, so below"? Isn't that the same corresponding mechanism? Maybe outside of mindset, reality is just perfect and our perception is the only thing to tackle, but isn't that kind of an assumption?

I guess I wonder about the reality that gives rise to the mindset which creates its own suffering, that very reality, if it even exists separately, which is another assumption. What about it? Aren't metaphysical forms, that which we retroactively describe through concepts, the very territory itself just another layer of construction, or do we just outsource that part to God because he knows what he's doing? Well, we are God on a higher plane of awareness, right?

But it is that very territory (higher mind?) that gives rise to the mind that interprets it, if fact Non-Duality would lead me to the Map being not apart but a subset of the Territory. And so, why modify the map but not the territory, maybe the difference between map and territory is the only issue, but why is that specific scenario the case? Sure, clarity is good, acceptance of what is kinda makes sense, but does it really, or does it just sound like a pleasant interpretation.

Enlighten me, hehe 

[Javfly33]

On point. 

Love is a quality of the mind. It is a facet of the Absolute, but not truly 'it'. 

The Absolute is so United there isn´t even a space for 'Love'. 

There is truly nothing there. 

[An young being]

I wanted existence to be blissful, and I got it. It will be unjust if it's any other way.

[tuku747]

Love is the experience of reunification with The One

[Leo Gura]

I can't make sense of what you wrote.

[Quader]

Sounds like you're not a fan of reconciling duality existing as a part of non duality, or that you're targeting duality as false while non duality gets a special favour as being unknown, including things that may have not been seen or imagined (yet). 

Duality is just your ability to make observations of any kind. If you observe something that has no discrete quality then it's non dual. But the truth is all observations are non discrete, which doesn't make it false nor does it make it true. The truth is superposition. If you want to make distinctions you have to "break" it. But if it works it works! Insane that science works at all seeing as it's just our impression of a system.

 

[Ishanga]

What You guys are mostly missing is that Reality is everything and anything, its Pure Potential, but You get stuck in an Ideology or a Grand Experience situation that You've had once or a thousand times, and try to reduce it logically and intellectually.  Whatever You think Consciousness is, Human based or Alien Based, its all Possibility and Potential, no matter what other labels you create or situations...

Absolute is One, One means ALL, ALL means Everything is Possible, so if Everything is Possible then Duality is Possible and has to exist, so here we are on this planet, but Your a Human with a Great Sense of Individuality, which in and of itself is Wonderful, but its not the Ultimate, its Not Absolute, Absolute does not have Individuality or Duality, just Potential, so we are here to work this out via Experience, Perception and Awareness so that we can if we strive and choose to "Experience this Absolute" while here and Embodied, we have basic tools provided to us (Intellect) so that we can survive in a world we are not physically superior in, so we need superior intellects, and now in this day and age we rule this world, but are destroying it because we are not Using any Awareness capabilities at all..

 

Edited June 21 by Ishanga

[Keryo Koffa]

@Leo Gura @Quader @Ishanga Let me break it down:

I see duality as distinction. The intellect creates dualities based on perception, meaning perception itself is inherently dual, as it informs and emerges the dualities of the intellect. Love is being channeled between forms or dualities like self and other. But if those dualities dissolved, there would be no room for love, nothing to channel it and nothing to channel it towards and between. But the dissolution of all form would lead to a Unity. But I don't see how Love would have any space in that Unity, since I see love as the attraction between forms. So I don't see how God is Love. In relation to existence yes, but on its own I see no space for love. Love would be a pointer towards God, but when all form and duality collapses into the formless, I don't see space for God to have any properties at all, only in relation to existence would God have traits like intelligence or love but I don't see how it would be an inherent trait on its own when we collapse all else into an absolute formless Unity. Unless Unity is not the merging into formless but a recognition of interconnectedness. So in order for love to exist, there needs to be polarity, but that seems like a reinforcement of separation and that seems like the opposite of the merging that love points towards.

Maybe the reconciliation is that I have a faulty understanding of God, Love and (Non-)Duality. I wonder if there can even be such a thing as a Non-Dual experience without the contrasting duality that lets one perceive it as a distinct form to be aware of. There might be the reality that gives rise to dualistic concepts and understanding, but isn't that still a perceptual duality if it is at all distinguishable as a unique thing? Maybe non-duality is simply seeing what is without lenses or being aware of the lenses being constructed. Maybe God isn't formless, but transcend form and formless where all exists simultaneously. Maybe love is not channeled between portions of the self but an inherent property of their existence. I'm getting kinda confused, but its important for me to inquire into this and reconcile that confusion.

TLDR; Doesn't love require separation which feels contradictory as it polarizes unity in duality and unity is symbolized as the most loving state, and how can one be aware of non-duality when non-duality is formless, doesn't existence and awareness require duality?

[An young being]

3 hours ago, Keryo Koffa said:

I wonder if there can even be such a thing as a Non-Dual experience without the contrasting duality that lets one perceive it as a distinct form to be aware of.

You may be right, looks like the world can't get free of yin and yang.

Personally, I believe what you mention as a non dual experience is simply the extreme polarity of yang or the light or the bliss.

[A Fellow Lighter]

You're rationslising too much. Love is the reason why you get out of bed every morning, why you do things that keep you alive. Love is the reason why there is any kind of movement. Because, really there is no reason for any activity. All that we do we do out of love. Even though we might imagine some sort of cause, there is none, nor is there any purpose for anything in particular. All motion is driven by pure illogical transrational non-mechanical love. It is spirit.

[universe]

No, you got it backwards.

Love between forms is always finite and incomplete.

That's why love is a reduction of Love.

 

When you see love between two objects you get a glimpse of the whole.

And because love between objects is possible you know that love between all objects together is possible and that is what is meant with everything is one, everything is Love.

❤️

[Quader]

@Keryo Koffa When you reference it as a possible trap in a survivalist sense, I like to comfort myself by believing something like Outer Wild's story regarding the end of the universe (during our substitute's lives), and potentially extending the result to occurring an infinite amount of times at all times. 

**COMPLETE SPOILER FOR THE OUTER WILDS VIDEO GAME AHEAD**

In essence, the suffering may be analogous to the dissipation of heart and heat, the dissolution and dispersion of energy. Don't fret, every moment was encapsulated and will be returned to form anew, a new chance and the continuation of the race that we all love to run. 

Edited June 22 by Quader
Spoiled a game without any warning

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, Keryo Koffa said:

But the dissolution of all form would lead to a Unity. But I don't see how Love would have any space in that Unity, since I see love as the attraction between forms. So I don't see how God is Love.

Lol

Unity = Love.

God is Infinity. Infinity is Love.

The end.

[Rafael Thundercat]

16 hours ago, Keryo Koffa said:

The mind that makes distinctions creates duality, sure, but isn't the existence of the reality that gives rise to dual concepts itself a metaphysical separation of forms? Doesn't awareness predispose duality and love predispose separation to be channeled between forms within consciousness? If so, isn't love itself a trap, as it requires separate forms to exist between, hence reinforcing the separation? I say this, because this forum seems to point towards a return to Unity, pure undivided being.

One way I can understand this, is that we should only care about the duality within mind, not the duality between metaphysical forms. But isn't "as above, so below"? Isn't that the same corresponding mechanism? Maybe outside of mindset, reality is just perfect and our perception is the only thing to tackle, but isn't that kind of an assumption?

I guess I wonder about the reality that gives rise to the mindset which creates its own suffering, that very reality, if it even exists separately, which is another assumption. What about it? Aren't metaphysical forms, that which we retroactively describe through concepts, the very territory itself just another layer of construction, or do we just outsource that part to God because he knows what he's doing? Well, we are God on a higher plane of awareness, right?

But it is that very territory (higher mind?) that gives rise to the mind that interprets it, if fact Non-Duality would lead me to the Map being not apart but a subset of the Territory. And so, why modify the map but not the territory, maybe the difference between map and territory is the only issue, but why is that specific scenario the case? Sure, clarity is good, acceptance of what is kinda makes sense, but does it really, or does it just sound like a pleasant interpretation.

Enlighten me, hehe 

Only one advice. Try to not built more labrint of words. Every conceptualization built more walls around you and you need no walls at all, you are exacly where you are suppose to be, your actual reality is all you need. And yes, you can keep going with the questioning for fun, but keep bringing back to the moment and to the body, is where the magic happens.

[Davino]

@Keryo Koffa My magick tea sentence today said:

Quote

Love is Infinite Power

Reality is teasing me

[bammy32]

19 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

On point. 

Love is a quality of the mind. It is a facet of the Absolute, but not truly 'it'. 

The Absolute is so United there isn´t even a space for 'Love'. 

There is truly nothing there. 

It’s this kind of shit that makes me grateful @Leo Gura keeps calling out traditional non duality and enlightenment.

A denial of Love as the utter core of Absolute Truth is tragically incomplete. Of course there’s room for Love there, LOVE is a fucking miracle. That’s the point. That’s why it IS identical to God.

Reductionism of consciousness is a bleak affair.

[gettoefl]

love is you are me and i beamed you out onto the big screen to learn how to treat you right in order to bring you back within

which is game over

[Javfly33]

On 22/06/2024 at 3:46 PM, bammy32 said:

It’s this kind of shit that makes me grateful @Leo Gura keeps calling out traditional non duality and enlightenment.

A denial of Love as the utter core of Absolute Truth is tragically incomplete. Of course there’s room for Love there, LOVE is a fucking miracle. That’s the point. That’s why it IS identical to God.

Reductionism of consciousness is a bleak affair.

 

@bammy32 Why you assume I am talking about traditional non duality? 

 

Quote

A denial of Love as the utter core of Absolute Truth is tragically incomplete.

I never denied Love. I´m saying True You (or Truth) is beyond it.

 

Quote

LOVE is a fucking miracle. That’s the point.

Love is still mind-entanglement-dreaming.

 

Quote

That’s why it IS identical to God.

God is a belief. 

 

Quote

Reductionism of consciousness is a bleak affair.

I´m not reducing it. I´m telling you you are even Bigger than Love.

Something more unlimited than that. 

 

However, I am not denying the Love aspect. 💙🙏

[Yimpa]

Does not compute!

[bammy32]

@Javfly33

As I said you’re denying Love as the Absolute Truth. And I’m saying Love is fundamental and identical to Truth. That Love is Truth. That Love is God (or the ‘True You’ as you might call it) in actuality. And that the intelligence of God’s Love can create imaginary unlimited states or even no state/‘nothing there at all’ which you’re describing that masquerades as the Absolute Truth. God is impossibly unlimited and can easily do such things (this is the true definition of unlimited). But we fool ourselves into the being ‘truly done’ trap where you actually think you’ve penetrated to the final depths of awakening, something deeper than God / Love and pointing to something bigger than that, not knowing that the real dream is still happening to you as you are God pretending you’re not God / Love doing this. This is nothing to do with mind or belief. This is nothing to do with concepts. 

It seems your path has been riddled by traditional mind disidentification dogma which is a worldview that shapes your spiritual aims, endeavours, practices and results and leads to claims like calling Love a mind-entangled activity or mere aspect in consciousness. No. Love is infinitely foundational, meta and a priori to any state/no state. It is the unlimited bedrock of Consciousness itself. Love literally IS the ‘nothing there’ devoid of Love/beyond Love no state you’re pointing to. Love simultaneously creates and is prior to/beyond even absolute nothing. Love always was, so to speak. That’s why I called it a miracle. It is what God is. It IS the Absolute Truth.

Edited June 24 by bammy32