How does one recognise enlightenment?

[stephenkettley]

The idea of enlightenment has always seemed like the craziest cool thing when described, and I am extremely keen to reach those levels one day. 

I have a question, which as a newbie, often comes to mind: If enlightenment isn't an "experience", and when it happens, the colours/perceptions/visuals/feelings etc. don't change, then what "changes" or "occurs" or "happens" for there to be the recognition that enlightenment occurred that might cause one to say to their friend/journal, "After years of work, enlightenment occurred."

This question often makes me wonder.

[stephenkettley]

F*******K I just know enlightenment is going to be the biggest mind-fuck of my entire existence and it's going to be nothing like I ever imagined in the decades up until it occurs.

[Someone here]

9 minutes ago, stephenkettley said:

If enlightenment isn't an "experience"

That's the old version.  Catch up. Enlightenment IS an experience nowadays. 

[Hojo]

Its like god has been looking directly at your eyes your whole life and then suddenly moves after not moving for your entire life. And you are able to see what it is when it moves. Its when you see conciousness for what it is and you see the same conciousness you have is the same conciousness the entire universe has.

It dosent move but it shifts and you can see it shift. Like god says to you boo! I'm right here! 

Another time was like my vision was being  carved with a lazer beam and light went weird colored and it looked like a long row of file folders were on the bottom of my vision and I was just pulling frames of existence very fast from these folders.

Edited June 20 by Hojo

[Keryo Koffa]

It's an Aha! moment, where you realize something that seems obvious in hindsight but nonetheless profound.

It's like grasping a new concept, that which is pointed to, counting to infinity vs realizing where that leads.

It's making sense of yourself, others and the world through a new substrate that connects them all.

[Princess Arabia]

One cannot recognize enlightenment. Why? Because once you know something, there is space between you and that knowledge. Enlightenment is being one with everything. If you're one with everything, you cannot possibly know or experience anything. There is no separation to begin with. It is the thoughts that create the space between you and that knowing. "I am Enlightened", is duality. Duality is an illusion. So, the reason people chase enlightenment is because there's no way of knowing you're already enlightened. They're chasing something that doesn't exist. Anyone that says they're enlightened is within their own dream and is having an experience in said dream of the knowledge they already know about enlightenment. If they knew nothing about what they believe enlightenment to be, they wouldn't be able to say they're enlightened. 

It's all enlightenment. It's all freedom, it's all liberation, but for no one. Only in the dream of separation can one say they are enlightened which never really happened because there's no individual to begin with, it's all appearances, appearing from nothing. There is no ground and no substance to anything, it's all emptiness appearing as form.

[Keryo Koffa]

@Princess Arabia True, one could say we start enlightened but unaware, because it is a constant, we do not pick up a difference and differences are how learn about reality, we enter dualities in ignorance and dissolve them in awareness, this is due to conditioning, we separate ourselves from enlightenment through a lack of awareness and assumption of dualities, to return to enlightenment, we simply need to realize and dissolve the illusion that makes us chase it.

[Princess Arabia]

24 minutes ago, Keryo Koffa said:

we enter dualities in ignorance and dissolve them in awareness, this is due to conditioning

The conditioning is in the brain and the brain only responds to stimuli. There's no dissolving duality nor was it entered into by ignorance. It's simply just an appearance and is brought on by the sense of separation. The energy of the "I" comes with it these apparent differences and isn't being done by anyone. It cannot be helped. It is not as if one is "doing this separation", it is the "I" energy that IS the seeming separation. When that falls away, it is revealed to never have been.

 

24 minutes ago, Keryo Koffa said:

we separate ourselves from enlightenment through a lack of awareness and assumption of dualities, to return to enlightenment, we simply need to realize and dissolve the illusion that makes us chase it.

There's nothing that one does to separate themselves from anything. The energy that arises IS the separation. It's illusory and isn't really happening, only appearing to be. There's nothing the I can do to return to enlightenment because the "I" doesn't exist in the first place. The dissolution cannot take place because how can something that never was, be dissolved. No one can dissolve an illusion. Illusion means it's not there.

All of this is fine and dandy, nothing can be done because there's no one doing it. The energy has to fall away on it's own. Certain things will just stop appearing. This message is actually pointless, meaningless. The only thing that can happen is a resonance and an apparent dissolution. 

[Water by the River]

Dont' worry. "You" won't overlook that one. 

Steven Norquist, "What is enlightenment, no, I mean really, like what is it?"

[Keryo Koffa]

@Princess Arabia If there is no illusion, then what is the comment pointing towards?

What is the nature of this "energy" that does everything by itself? If it falls away, where did it fall away from?

I get the "burn the bridges"  is necessary to tune into higher awareness, but it also seems to create a blindspot.

[Princess Arabia]

11 minutes ago, Keryo Koffa said:

If there is no illusion, then what is the comment pointing towards?

Energy expands and contracts. Appears in different shapes and forms. Water turns to ice and vapor, same water. Vapor cannot be without the water just as the wave doesn't exist without the ocean. 

The energy appears from nothing and goes back to nothing. It's all energy. There's nothing but energy appearing in different forms. Falls away just means the wave went back into the ocean and realizes it was never a separate entity to begin with. Not saying there is no illusion, but its just an appearance just as a woman appears to be taller in high heels or a voice louder through a microphone or a lip appearing red with lipstick. The lip didn't actually happen to turn red, it only appears red. Same thing; the illusion is, but only appearing to be what it's not.

[tuku747]

braingasm

[Keryo Koffa]

@Princess Arabia

6 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

When that falls away, it is revealed to never have been.

No one can dissolve an illusion. Illusion means it's not there.

The energy has to fall away on it's own. Certain things will just stop appearing.

How is any form of this transient energy any less real or more illusory than another? I see how all is made of the same energy, but can this not be reversed so that the formless is illusory and always returns to form? There may yet be a context that encompasses both and describes their flow and relation, I don't think its as passive a process as you describe it.

[Princess Arabia]

55 minutes ago, Keryo Koffa said:

@Princess Arabia

How is any form of this transient energy any less real or more illusory than another? I see how all is made of the same energy, but can this not be reversed so that the formless is illusory and always returns to form? There may yet be a context that encompasses both and describes their flow and relation, I don't think its as passive a process as you describe it.

Because the Absolute is Infinite. Infinite also includes the form, but the form arises out of the Infinite. Form needs something to arise from. Since Infinity is nothing (no-thing) anything that arises from it has to be nothing by definition. Everything you see is only an appearance. Everything. Its not illusory but empty as in no substance. The illusion is the "I". Can you see an "I". No, you see a body. Can you see stories, thoughts, concepts, ideas. Those are the "knowing energy", which is an illusion. All of those have beginnings and endings. 

Infinity has no beginning nor ending. Knowing is a point. A point of reference. There is no point in the infinite, so it has to be illusory. The 'I" believes it's real so everything it experiences is also "real". That's the dream. Awareness, consciousness, sense of being are all knowing. That's the dream. There's only experience in the dream of knowing. The dream isn't known because the dream and the dreamer are the same thing. 

Edited June 21 by Princess Arabia

[Ishanga]

3 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Because the Absolute is Infinite. Infinite also includes the form, but the form arises out of the Infinite. Form needs something to arise from. Since Infinity is nothing (no-thing) anything that arises from it has to be nothing by definition. Everything you see is only an appearance. Everything. Its not illusory but empty as in no substance. The illusion is the "I". Can you see an "I". No, you see a body. Can you see stories, thoughts, concepts, ideas. Those are the "knowing energy", which is an illusion. All of those have beginnings and endings. 

Infinity has no beginning nor ending. Knowing is a point. A point of reference. There is no point in the infinite, so it has to be illusory. The 'I" believes it's real so everything it experiences is also "real". That's the dream. Awareness, consciousness, sense of being are all knowing. That's the dream. There's only experience in the dream of knowing. The dream isn't known because the dream and the dreamer are the same thing. 

There are levels to it, what You say is true in the "Absolute" way of perceiving and describing it, as I said this is Top Down methodology, I am saying that since we are using language to discuss things using logic, so there are labels to be used and such... But as things go down to our human earth level, that is where "things" exist, this is not Absolute level, but Earth level, it is just we as Human can realize we are not this Earth stuff and that there is more to us than we normal understand or perceive.. Reality goes from Gross (Earth) to more Subtle realms (Absolute)...

[Ishanga]

An Enlightened Person will be recognized in any and all ways, they will probably be allot Freer, more Happy, less Attached, but Loving, Loyal, Caring and Giving, Compassionate but can get Angry and do what needs to be done, but this is a Conscious process for them, for most others its Compulsive...

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, Ishanga said:

There are levels to it, what You say is true in the "Absolute" way of perceiving and describing it, as I said this is Top Down methodology, I am saying that since we are using language to discuss things using logic, so there are labels to be used and such... But as things go down to our human earth level, that is where "things" exist, this is not Absolute level, but Earth level, it is just we as Human can realize we are not this Earth stuff and that there is more to us than we normal understand or perceive.. Reality goes from Gross (Earth) to more Subtle realms (Absolute)...

I understand. I was asked a question and that was my response. What you're describing is within the dream of separation which are experiences. We can have a discussion about that too, that cannot be denied. It's all within the scope of wholeness. There's no denying what you're saying, but it's just a story. There is only wholeness and nothing is missing, so it doesn't matter. 

 

[Princess Arabia]

20 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

An Enlightened Person will be recognized in any and all ways, they will probably be allot Freer, more Happy, less Attached, but Loving, Loyal, Caring and Giving, Compassionate but can get Angry and do what needs to be done, but this is a Conscious process for them, for most others its Compulsive...

Still just an experience within the dream of "I". How can it be when there is no separation. More freer, more happy, less attached are all just appearances, which is all there is - appearances. Nothing solid. Whatever arises is everything, timelessness appearing.

Edited June 21 by Princess Arabia

[Ishanga]

6 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

I understand. I was asked a question and that was my response. What you're describing is within the dream of separation which are experiences. We can have a discussion about that too, that cannot be denied. It's all within the scope of wholeness. There's no denying what you're saying, but it's just a story. There is only wholeness and nothing is missing, so it doesn't matter. 

 

Well it does matter, because when one just sees or understands or experiences the Absolute, then everything else won't matter, so when that is the case then they are limited in a way, and not Absolute, so one needs to have both perspectives and ultimately the individual Experience of it, they can be in Experience of the Absolute/Oneness/Completeness (this is Bliss) and as well live an everyday normal life with family or no family, work or no work, and just play the game of it, that is why we are here. Absolute means One, One means All, All means Potential, and we try to live that potential out on this dual realm we have here on Earth:) 

A major problem is when we take this stuff too seriously, life is not meant to be taken too seriously, its Lala or a Game of sorts, play time on Earth, because we have taken it too seriously we have these wars, suffering, ppl dying for no reason, and it continues, too serious and not enough play...

[Ishanga]

Just now, Princess Arabia said:

Still just an experience within the dream of "I". How can it be when there no separation. More freer, more happy, less attached are all just appearances, which is all there is - appearances. Nothing solid. Whatever arises is everything, timelessness appearing.

LIke I said its a Game, Life here is a Game of sorts, with that we can play it Joyfully or Miserably, one is LIfe empowering (as we know life on this Earth), the other is Disempowering to Life as we know it here...We have the choice, Free Will to choose which way we want it, that is another reason why we are here...