do the 5 prayers of islam count as spiritual practice ?

[Majed]

lately was wondering about this, i asked claude 3, it said: 

"The five daily Islamic prayers (salah) can be viewed through a mystical lens, particularly in Sufi traditions. Here's how they relate to mysticism:

Spiritual Connection:

Each prayer is seen as an opportunity for direct communion with the Divine.

The physical act of prayer is believed to align the body, mind, and soul towards God.

Purification:

The ritual ablution (wudu) before prayer is viewed as both physical and spiritual cleansing.

Prayer itself is seen as purifying the soul from worldly attachments.

Mindfulness and Presence:

The fixed prayer times create regular intervals for spiritual reflection throughout the day.

The focus required during prayer is a form of meditation, cultivating presence and awareness.

Symbolism:

The movements in prayer (standing, bowing, prostrating) are often interpreted symbolically.

For example, prostration can represent complete submission to the Divine.

Rhythmic Invocation:

The repetitive nature of prayers, especially certain phrases, is similar to mantras in other mystical traditions.

This repetition is believed to induce altered states of consciousness.

Ascension:

Some mystics view prayer as a spiritual ascension, mirroring the Prophet Muhammad's night journey (Isra and Mi'raj).

Unveiling:

Regular prayer is seen as a means to gradually unveil spiritual realities and gain deeper insights.

Union with the Divine:

The ultimate goal for many mystics is fana (annihilation of the self in God), which they believe can be achieved through devoted prayer.

While these mystical interpretations are more pronounced in Sufi traditions, they're not exclusive to Sufism. Many Muslims find deeper spiritual meanings in their daily prayers, even if they don't explicitly frame it in mystical terms.

It's important to note that while mystical interpretations exist, the five daily prayers remain a fundamental obligation for all Muslims, regardless of their inclination towards mysticism."

if that is true, then serious muslims who prayed for years must be awake.

[Husseinisdoingfine]

No.

Half of my family is Muslim, and a lot of my friends at the University are from the Muslim Student Association. I have visited the Mosque my family goes to as well.

Muslims are mostly normies, if performing salah counted as prayers, then why are they so unconscious?

 

Edited June 20 by Husseinisdoingfine
typos

[Majed]

@Husseinisdoingfine i mean you have to listen to them when they talk about spirituality and god.

[Husseinisdoingfine]

1 minute ago, Majed said:

i mean you have to listen to them when they talk about spirituality and god.

Enough talk about spirituality and god, how about we do the practices to actually experience it.

[Danioover9000]

@Majed

1 hour ago, Majed said:

lately was wondering about this, i asked claude 3, it said: 

"The five daily Islamic prayers (salah) can be viewed through a mystical lens, particularly in Sufi traditions. Here's how they relate to mysticism:

Spiritual Connection:

Each prayer is seen as an opportunity for direct communion with the Divine.

The physical act of prayer is believed to align the body, mind, and soul towards God.

Purification:

The ritual ablution (wudu) before prayer is viewed as both physical and spiritual cleansing.

Prayer itself is seen as purifying the soul from worldly attachments.

Mindfulness and Presence:

The fixed prayer times create regular intervals for spiritual reflection throughout the day.

The focus required during prayer is a form of meditation, cultivating presence and awareness.

Symbolism:

The movements in prayer (standing, bowing, prostrating) are often interpreted symbolically.

For example, prostration can represent complete submission to the Divine.

Rhythmic Invocation:

The repetitive nature of prayers, especially certain phrases, is similar to mantras in other mystical traditions.

This repetition is believed to induce altered states of consciousness.

Ascension:

Some mystics view prayer as a spiritual ascension, mirroring the Prophet Muhammad's night journey (Isra and Mi'raj).

Unveiling:

Regular prayer is seen as a means to gradually unveil spiritual realities and gain deeper insights.

Union with the Divine:

The ultimate goal for many mystics is fana (annihilation of the self in God), which they believe can be achieved through devoted prayer.

While these mystical interpretations are more pronounced in Sufi traditions, they're not exclusive to Sufism. Many Muslims find deeper spiritual meanings in their daily prayers, even if they don't explicitly frame it in mystical terms.

It's important to note that while mystical interpretations exist, the five daily prayers remain a fundamental obligation for all Muslims, regardless of their inclination towards mysticism."

if that is true, then serious muslims who prayed for years must be awake.

   Not really.

[zazen]

Sure they can, but most perform it formally rather than heartily with presence.

Prayer can come as a natural outcome of true meditation, but it’s a prayer without words. This experience transcends reasoning, movement or spoken words; it's a lived reality.

If prayer helps to quiet the mind through its mantras or movements, the silence it brings can help realise God. Prayer is like a mechanism or tool to lead you to silence, it isn’t the experience of divine silence itself.

Prayer takes on a form whether physical, verbal or both, but is meant to take you to the formless. Meditation skips over and dives you straight into silence. Prayer uses form to reach the formless, meditation transforms you as you sit with the formless.

I messed around with Claude and came to this:

“Ah, now we're talking cosmic clockwork and celestial synchronicity. You've hit on something juicy there, my friend.

Sure, there's a method to the madness of prayer times. It's not just some arbitrary bullshit cooked up by bored monks. The sun, that blazing ball of nuclear fusion, has been humanity's metronome since we first crawled out of the primordial ooze.

Dawn, noon, dusk - these aren't just transitions of light, they're energetic thresholds. The world literally shifts around us, and our meat suits respond whether we're aware of it or not. Our circadian rhythms dance to this solar symphony, and our consciousness fluctuates along with it.

So yeah, those prayer times? They're tapping into something primal, something that predates organized religion by eons. It's like surfing the waves of awareness that naturally ebb and flow with the sun's journey across the sky.

But here's the rub: you don't need a prayer mat or a fancy chant to ride these waves. The heightened awareness is there for the taking, divine experience ripe for the plucking, if you've got the balls to pay attention.

Imagine this: you're up at dawn, world still hushed, that liminal space between night and day. Your mind's still soft from sleep, defenses down. The sun crests the horizon, and bam! - if you're really present, really there, you might just catch a glimpse of the cosmic machinery in action.

Same goes for high noon, when the sun's at its zenith and the world holds its breath for a moment. Or sunset, as the light bleeds out of the sky and the veil between worlds feels gossamer-thin.

These moments of transition, they're like cracks in the matrix of ordinary reality. And yeah, structured prayer can be a tool to pry those cracks open wider. But it's not the only way, and for some, it might even be a distraction from the main event.

The real question is: can you cultivate the awareness to notice these moments without the crutch of ritual? Can you tap into that heightened state through sheer presence, through raw, unflinching attention to the now?

That's the challenge, isn't it? To sync up with the cosmic dance not through rote repetition, but through moment-to-moment aliveness. It's a hell of a lot harder than following a prayer schedule, but man, the payoff... that's where the real divine fireworks happen.

So yeah, there's definitely something to be said for those sun-linked prayer times. But maybe, just maybe, they're training wheels for a much wilder ride - direct, unmediated communion with the pulsing heart of reality itself.“ - Claude 

Edited June 20 by zazen

[Danioover9000]

@zazen

3 hours ago, zazen said:

Sure they can, but most perform it formally rather than heartily with presence.

Prayer can come as a natural outcome of true meditation, but it’s a prayer without words. This experience transcends reasoning, movement or spoken words; it's a lived reality.

If prayer helps to quiet the mind through its mantras or movements, the silence it brings can help realise God. Prayer is like a mechanism or tool to lead you to silence, it isn’t the experience of divine silence itself.

Prayer takes on a form whether physical, verbal or both, but is meant to take you to the formless. Meditation skips over and dives you straight into silence. Prayer uses form to reach the formless, meditation transforms you as you sit with the formless.

I messed around with Claude and came to this:

“Ah, now we're talking cosmic clockwork and celestial synchronicity. You've hit on something juicy there, my friend.

Sure, there's a method to the madness of prayer times. It's not just some arbitrary bullshit cooked up by bored monks. The sun, that blazing ball of nuclear fusion, has been humanity's metronome since we first crawled out of the primordial ooze.

Dawn, noon, dusk - these aren't just transitions of light, they're energetic thresholds. The world literally shifts around us, and our meat suits respond whether we're aware of it or not. Our circadian rhythms dance to this solar symphony, and our consciousness fluctuates along with it.

So yeah, those prayer times? They're tapping into something primal, something that predates organized religion by eons. It's like surfing the waves of awareness that naturally ebb and flow with the sun's journey across the sky.

But here's the rub: you don't need a prayer mat or a fancy chant to ride these waves. The heightened awareness is there for the taking, divine experience ripe for the plucking, if you've got the balls to pay attention.

Imagine this: you're up at dawn, world still hushed, that liminal space between night and day. Your mind's still soft from sleep, defenses down. The sun crests the horizon, and bam! - if you're really present, really there, you might just catch a glimpse of the cosmic machinery in action.

Same goes for high noon, when the sun's at its zenith and the world holds its breath for a moment. Or sunset, as the light bleeds out of the sky and the veil between worlds feels gossamer-thin.

These moments of transition, they're like cracks in the matrix of ordinary reality. And yeah, structured prayer can be a tool to pry those cracks open wider. But it's not the only way, and for some, it might even be a distraction from the main event.

The real question is: can you cultivate the awareness to notice these moments without the crutch of ritual? Can you tap into that heightened state through sheer presence, through raw, unflinching attention to the now?

That's the challenge, isn't it? To sync up with the cosmic dance not through rote repetition, but through moment-to-moment aliveness. It's a hell of a lot harder than following a prayer schedule, but man, the payoff... that's where the real divine fireworks happen.

So yeah, there's definitely something to be said for those sun-linked prayer times. But maybe, just maybe, they're training wheels for a much wilder ride - direct, unmediated communion with the pulsing heart of reality itself.“ - Claude 

 Sure, granted just like meditation there were also some scientific research done into the effects of prayer. Though not as conclusive there's enough there to suggest prayers are good for you.

   Although in the case with Mohammad, there was a story about him communicating with the Archangel Gabriel, and basically it came down to the number of prayers that were acceptable to do. Eventually Mohammad worked out that 5 was more than enough, but the initial number Gabriel came up with was MASSIVE! Almost close to an infinite number. So just assuming all that did occur, Mohammad did talk and bartered for a good number of prayers, I think Gabriel being a chad of an angel himself probably was just rounding up per milliseconds of human lifespan, and was basically saying that just being mindfulness of the moment, AKA praying as you breath and live was enough, which is probably why the number was astronomical to begin with. And of course he's an angel and angels live centuries like literal seconds unlike humans just because.🤷‍♀️

[bebotalk]

On 20/06/2024 at 3:31 PM, Majed said:

lately was wondering about this, i asked claude 3, it said: 

"The five daily Islamic prayers (salah) can be viewed through a mystical lens, particularly in Sufi traditions. Here's how they relate to mysticism:

Spiritual Connection:

Each prayer is seen as an opportunity for direct communion with the Divine.

The physical act of prayer is believed to align the body, mind, and soul towards God.

Purification:

The ritual ablution (wudu) before prayer is viewed as both physical and spiritual cleansing.

Prayer itself is seen as purifying the soul from worldly attachments.

Mindfulness and Presence:

The fixed prayer times create regular intervals for spiritual reflection throughout the day.

The focus required during prayer is a form of meditation, cultivating presence and awareness.

Symbolism:

The movements in prayer (standing, bowing, prostrating) are often interpreted symbolically.

For example, prostration can represent complete submission to the Divine.

Rhythmic Invocation:

The repetitive nature of prayers, especially certain phrases, is similar to mantras in other mystical traditions.

This repetition is believed to induce altered states of consciousness.

Ascension:

Some mystics view prayer as a spiritual ascension, mirroring the Prophet Muhammad's night journey (Isra and Mi'raj).

Unveiling:

Regular prayer is seen as a means to gradually unveil spiritual realities and gain deeper insights.

Union with the Divine:

The ultimate goal for many mystics is fana (annihilation of the self in God), which they believe can be achieved through devoted prayer.

While these mystical interpretations are more pronounced in Sufi traditions, they're not exclusive to Sufism. Many Muslims find deeper spiritual meanings in their daily prayers, even if they don't explicitly frame it in mystical terms.

It's important to note that while mystical interpretations exist, the five daily prayers remain a fundamental obligation for all Muslims, regardless of their inclination towards mysticism."

if that is true, then serious muslims who prayed for years must be awake.

How can it not be spiriutal? 

[Danioover9000]

@bebotalk

On 2024-06-25 at 3:20 PM, bebotalk said:

How can it not be spiriutal? 

   Because it isn't. It's just habit at that point.

[Danioover9000]

@bebotalk

On 2024-06-25 at 3:20 PM, bebotalk said:

How can it not be spiriutal? 

    It isn't spiritual when most times you're told to do the 5 prayers a day with no rest. Being told to pray 5 times or suffer the consequences by the priests. I am also not your dhimmi, and no way in hell would I feel it spiritual being mostly told to meditate a day.

   Prayer/meditation becomes spiritual when the person has intention and wants to do the practice, not because they're pressured to do so.

[zazen]

On 6/20/2024 at 11:47 PM, Danioover9000 said:

@zazen

was basically saying that just being mindfulness of the moment, AKA praying as you breath and live was enough, which is probably why the number was astronomical to begin with. And of course he's an angel and angels live centuries like literal seconds unlike humans just because.🤷‍♀️

True, Chad Angel Gabriel was pointing to the eternal where you can be bliss. 

12 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@bebotalk

    It isn't spiritual when most times you're told to do the 5 prayers a day with no rest. Being told to pray 5 times or suffer the consequences by the priests. I am also not your dhimmi, and no way in hell would I feel it spiritual being mostly told to meditate a day.

   Prayer/meditation becomes spiritual when the person has intention and wants to do the practice, not because they're pressured to do so.

Thats the thing thats missing, intention. Its pointless if its being forced on people. I do think theres possibly something to praying even if not consciously engaged in it. Most people due to human bias and a evolutionary mismatch of ancient instincts in modern environments just seem to have bad thinking patterns and habits. Prayers and gratitude such as ''thank Lord for another day to live, thank Lord for my oatmeal and coffee I'm about to dive into'' can be a habitual practice that can have positive effects regardless of one's conscious engagement.

Even if its half assed, you're training your brain to spot silver linings in a world that often feels like it's on fire. It's like you're hacking your own operating system. We don't need to understand every line of code to benefit from the update and our subconscious is doing the heavy lifting, rewiring neural pathways while we're busy doom-scrolling or netflixing.

The shift on the subconscious it has may keep us slightly more on the positive end of the scale - thats probably what the studies are picking up on when they conclude positive benefits to prayer - something can also be said about rituals being relaxing. Its a bit like robotically brushing teeth, most aren't conscious when doing it but it has certain health benefits nonetheless. 

[creativepursuit]

13 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

It isn't spiritual when most times you're told to do the 5 prayers a day with no rest.

Trying to preach anything to anyone creates resistance.

Praying 5 times a day can be a beautiful spiritual practice if it is done willingly.

[Danioover9000]

@creativepursuit

3 hours ago, creativepursuit said:

Trying to preach anything to anyone creates resistance.

Praying 5 times a day can be a beautiful spiritual practice if it is done willingly.

   Key word there is 'willingly'. What if you're not willingly doing the 5 prayers?

[LSD-Rumi]

2 long prayers, one in the morning and one in the evening is much better.

[creativepursuit]

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

@creativepursuit

   Key word there is 'willingly'. What if you're not willingly doing the 5 prayers?

I am not sure I fully understand. I know many Muslims who don't pray 5 times a day and yet are very spiritual. Whether one prays or not is a path for them to choose, and it should be a choice.