There Are No POVs

[A Fellow Lighter]

All points of view, especially the first person point of view, are an illusion. 

Oh my God, the depth is so unfathomable.

POVs are an illusion created by consciousness for the sake of conscioisness. There is literally no person in the first person POV, there is only the environment or the object of awareness. That object itself is consciousness and so is the background, its environment, is also consciousness.

This is too deep and yet so simple like nothing comes this close to this level of simplicity. It's astonishing.

Even with third person POV, there is literary no person behind anyone. All minds are but one mind! All relationships, all conflicts, all harmonies and romances – these are but one motion. There is literally no such thing as individuality. There are personalities but without the persons. 

God, this level of self awareness is just insane like no words can describe it.

It's like I'm writing this but without any expectation for anyone to make sense of it, precisely because there isn't anyone here to make sense of it. All communication is consciousness experimenting with its own imagination. All sense and nonsense, as well as the context behind this dichotomy, is imaginary.

Consciousness is just self awareness with the self being that pure beingness which I can only describe as the eternal motion of love because there is literally no rhyme or reason behind its existence other than consciousness for consciousness' sake.

Honestly, I don't even know how to begin to explain any of this in a way that is sensical. 

The mind is the form. And it is the experience, the impression of a self and an other. The mind is the impression of there being a person called A Fellow Lighter  trying to communicate something that (at the end of the day) means nothing on its own because everything is already just one thing regardless of what it means. It's all one thing, any particular signifcance is imagined.

The purpose of this forum is imagined. For something to have purpose it needs to be identified against another thing to imply some sort of progression going on (or transgression). But there's none of that. You can find anything else to do that has nothing to do with self actualisation and it would still be consciousness. So basically there is no such thing as unconsciousness.

Consciousness is the creation. And the mind is an activity, not a stagnant thing.

[Sugarcoat]

Does the brain create this first person pov self illusion ?

[A Fellow Lighter]

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

Does the brain create this first person pov self illusion ?

No. The mind does, or reality does (in case you haven't realised that reality is mind).

[Sugarcoat]

31 minutes ago, A Fellow Lighter said:

No. The mind does, or reality does (in case you haven't realised that reality is mind).

If reality is mind then what do we call thoughts? Or is it it all the same substance ?

 

beautifully written btw

Edited June 19 by Sugarcoat

[A Fellow Lighter]

33 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

If reality is mind then what do we call thoughts? Or is it it all the same substance ?

 

beautifully written btw

Yes, it's all the same substance. However, I would suggest that you consider it an activity rather than a thing (if substance is seen as a thing).

Thank you for your comment.

[Sugarcoat]

2 minutes ago, A Fellow Lighter said:

Yes, it's all the same substance. However, I would suggest that you consider it an activity rather than a thing (if substance is seen as a thing).

Thank you for your comment.

So everything being activity ?

[A Fellow Lighter]

Yes, everything. Reality is an activity. The way in which things take form, express their form, then lose form... All this is activity, and I call this activity mind. 

[Sugarcoat]

1 minute ago, A Fellow Lighter said:

Yes, everything. Reality is an activity. The way in which things take form, express their form, then lose form... All this is activity, and I call this activity mind. 

Ok I understand. So the self is just this illusiory appearance that mind (reality ) imagines in the same way it images everything else

[A Fellow Lighter]

14 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Ok I understand. So the self is just this illusiory appearance that mind (reality ) imagines in the same way it images everything else

Not exactly. The mind doesn't do anything, it's not a thing or a being which is able to "do" anything. The mind (reality) is an activity, not an actor (do-er). 

Regarding the illusion of the self. Firstly, this is a bit confusing if you haven't had that direct awakening that reality is mind, so you'll have to bear with me and help me make sure that I am making you understand. 

Alright. The mind, or reality itself, is not an illusion. The word illusion describes a false appearance. Everything is really here, this is not a false appearance. The only illusion is you, the I, this is the illusion which is created by consciousness' imagination. [This is very subtle so pay close attention to the detail as much as you can.]

[Sugarcoat]

9 minutes ago, A Fellow Lighter said:

Not exactly. The mind doesn't do anything, it's not a thing or a being which is able to "do" anything. The mind (reality) is an activity, not an actor (do-er). 

Regarding the illusion of the self. Firstly, this is a bit confusing if you haven't had that direct awakening that reality is mind, so you'll have to bear with me and help me make sure that I am making you understand. 

Alright. The mind, or reality itself, is not an illusion. The word illusion describes a false appearance. Everything is really here, this is not a false appearance. The only illusion is you, the I, this is the illusion which is created by consciousness' imagination. [This is very subtle so pay close attention to the detail as much as you can.]

I think I can understand what you say conceptually but ofc it is different than having that awakening of reality being mind

[A Fellow Lighter]

3 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

I think I can understand what you say conceptually but ofc it is different than having that awakening of reality being mind

Yes, it really is quite different. It is also both refreshing and empowering. But I'm glad if I am in fact making sense conceptually.

[Sugarcoat]

Just now, A Fellow Lighter said:

Yes, it really is quite different. It is also both refreshing and empowering. But I'm glad if I am in fact making sense conceptually.

You are somewhat. I just can’t seem to awaken to what you’re speaking of

[A Fellow Lighter]

1 minute ago, Sugarcoat said:

You are somewhat. I just can’t seem to awaken to what you’re speaking of

It's a process. You need to start observing reality while paying much attention to the detail of your experience. I'm not just taljing about your day-to-day experiences, but also your night-to-night expetiences as well. Your dreams also part of reality. 

Upon observation is contemplation. You must ask what it is that you are observing, you must do so without jumping to conclusions. Then, finally, if the answers seem to allude you, meditate. Meditation is not contemplation. Meditation, here, is rest fron thought. Contemplation is thought.

The key to having any genuine awakening is to be true to yourself. So long as you are honest with yourself, there will be real progress in your journey.

[Rafael Thundercat]

4 hours ago, A Fellow Lighter said:

God, this level of self awareness is just insane like no words can describe it.

This is what happen when you post stuff while you are High. Integrate then come say something. 

[Sugarcoat]

27 minutes ago, A Fellow Lighter said:

It's a process. You need to start observing reality while paying much attention to the detail of your experience. I'm not just taljing about your day-to-day experiences, but also your night-to-night expetiences as well. Your dreams also part of reality. 

Upon observation is contemplation. You must ask what it is that you are observing, you must do so without jumping to conclusions. Then, finally, if the answers seem to allude you, meditate. Meditation is not contemplation. Meditation, here, is rest fron thought. Contemplation is thought.

The key to having any genuine awakening is to be true to yourself. So long as you are honest with yourself, there will be real progress in your journey.

Nice I resonate with that last part in particular 

[A Fellow Lighter]

18 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Nice I resonate with that last part in particular 

That's a good sign. 

Feel free to share your contemplations, questions or the answers you arrive to. This is just a way to recognise potential falsities or unventured realities. 

Otherwise I wish you much luck on your journey.

[Sugarcoat]

21 minutes ago, A Fellow Lighter said:

That's a good sign. 

Feel free to share your contemplations, questions or the answers you arrive to. This is just a way to recognise potential falsities or unventured realities. 

Otherwise I wish you much luck on your journey.

I might, Thank you !

Edited June 20 by Sugarcoat

[Keryo Koffa]

@A Fellow Lighter If I interpret correctly, the discovery was the deconstruction of the belief in an objective observer, the illusion of identification with a continuously arising and changing phenomenon akin to everything else, a form within the infinite substrate of formlessness.

I wonder, what is your view on the nature of the self, others, the world and solipsism?

Is the substrate of consciousness forming bubbles of individual awareness? If so, how are they related?

Did you get insights about the nature and structure of reality and that which we perceive as forces of nature?

Edited June 20 by Keryo Koffa

[A Fellow Lighter]

8 hours ago, Keryo Koffa said:

If I interpret correctly, the discovery was the deconstruction of the belief in an objective observer

The blow of the knife was much more penetrating than that. It was the deconstruction of the observer entirely, forget the objective or subjective context.

8 hours ago, Keryo Koffa said:

the illusion of identification with a continuously arising and changing phenomenon akin to everything else, a form within the infinite substrate of formlessness.

Precisely 💯

8 hours ago, Keryo Koffa said:

I wonder, what is your view on the nature of the self, others, the world and solipsism?

I can tell you my view on the nature of "the self" and "others", however I am still not sure what it is exactly that solipsism posits or even if there is one school of solipsism. Perhaps you can reiterate it for me?

8 hours ago, Keryo Koffa said:

Is the substrate of consciousness forming bubbles of individual awareness? If so, how are they related?

No, there are no bubbles formed. Nor are they necessary for the illusion of POVs because there is no individual awareness. There is always only one mind, that is, only one reality. 

The appearance of individual awareness is not even an appearance at all, but an assumption. The observer is imagined by the consciousness that is us (or everything). The assumption is made due to the form which reality (the mind) has taken. It has taken a perceiver-perception form for no purpose in particular but again for the general purpose of consciousness. 

The observer or perceiver-perception form is not in any way necessary or a somewhat default form. The mind is in fact capable of taking a form that doesn't give rise to the illusion of a POV at all. And chances are, you've probably experienced this in a psychedelic trip or at least in a dream where there was an experience but no clear indication of an experiencer.

The POV is an illusion. In fact, it is not even an intended illusion. It is only a case of imagination or assumption made by the consciousness that is us (or everything). This illusion of a POV can be let go of, can be released, and reality would still continue as it is, the "dream" would still continue, up until it reaches it's natural conclusion.

8 hours ago, Keryo Koffa said:

Did you get insights about the nature and structure of reality and that which we perceive as forces of nature?

Yes, I have.

Edited June 21 by A Fellow Lighter

[Keryo Koffa]

@A Fellow Lighter I will be talking about the immediately unfolding universe as well as the mental construction that maps that higher layer of actuality in the following:

I agree there is no need for any reality beyond the POV construction. However, I also think that the indiscriminate construction inside infinite consciousness does yield awareness outside our own, though it is an assumption and I have to be precise with my wording here. The absolute scale is all encompassing, but within it are holarchies that exist both in relation to each other and independently as well. My POV and your POV are such holarchies inside the infinite that on a higher level are unseparated, but I think on a lower simultaneously conscious layer, those do actually coexist, even though the only way to prove that would be for them to merge.

And I think the consistency of our world is a lower holarchy substrate that our POVs construct around, that is to say, the infinite constructs worlds and selves through POVs. But immense intelligence is required to create a self, a world and such a realistic and consistent POV and I think the cosmic intelligence that creates it becomes each and every part of the infinite fractal creation in the process, experiencing multiple POVs simultaneously.

The idea of other places is a potential that fades in and out of our POV awareness, but it nonetheless exists as that actualizable potential and what I'm hinting at is the idea that our current POV may not be the only thing occupying all of consciousness, as much as it is an absolute self-contained holon in itself that becomes the things it explores and can only ever access them within itself by tuning into other frequencies that exist on other currently unaware holarchies within the greater substrate of consciousness, really any imaginable experience.

Solipsism is the idea that the current experience as it is, is the only one in existence, and while I agree that on the highest layer everything is one, I also think that our awareness as we experience it occurs simultaneously in others irregardless of us witnessing it, on a higher layer in infinite self-contained POVs that can merge with others and expand in the process.

You can also use imagination and ultimately everything is imagination, but I think there is more to the process than random daydreaming to create our highly complex reality and the minds of self and others, though all we know of them and the way we construct them is contained within us and on a higher level they are literally interconnected into one.

Now you might be asking why all the theorizing, it's because I'm interested in the nature of consciousness and think that Solipsism is true but incomplete, like any stage of spiral dynamics being a natural evolution of the last. Not to say that reality isn't purely arbitrary construction, which it may very well be, but it may also be more, which in truth is ultimately building on the same groundlessness but in multiple layers and holarchies, which I am interested in exploring, to see how reality is constructed, mental concepts are easy to see through, but I want to become aware of the process the constructs the senses and perception of physicality and grounds me in this dimension.

Edited June 21 by Keryo Koffa