Andrew Tate video- > "You have 10 years to get rich before western society collapses"

[Danioover9000]

@Rafael Thundercat

1 hour ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

Dont play the victim, nobody is harassing you here.

100% getting cyber bullied and harassed here!

[Danioover9000]

@Consept

2 hours ago, Consept said:

OK so i get where youre coming from. So if we say that he has a cheaters spirit which requires ambition and a will to win by any means necessary, then i dont think this would be great for vulnerable young men to emulate. Reason being, it will mess them up in the long run, it doesnt actually develop any real skills aside from manipulation and cheating and the chances are they will get caught out, if not by a friend then worse by the law. This has already happened in his war room chat logs there are plenty of young men who describe how theyve manipulated women to work on webcam, some even talk about violence and show pictures etc. This means that they could actually wind up in a lot of legal trouble. If his cheaters spirit is taken into the world it may grant them temporary success but thats about it, as well it definitely wont give them any kind of spiritual growth. 

The other thing is that Tate is a manipulator and he is manipulating his audience, even know hes doing a pump and dump scheme for a meme coin, promising his followers theyll be rich if they buy in. So to say that someone like Tate should be giving advice to vulnerable young men is basically saying wolves should be in charge of lambs. 

In a way i get what you mean but i just dont think the good points can be separated out by the type of people that follow him, its pretty much all or nothing, he sets this dynamic by calling them brokies etc. He basically taunts them that if they dont follow him theyre a loser, which is something youd see in cults. Someone who is able to see through an ignore all the 'bad' stuff, probably wouldnt follow him in the first place. 

In general following a criminal is not going to give you good results, I know lots of ex-criminals who have done their time and are now excellent role models, but they have been through a whole journey and advise young people not to go down their road. Someone like Tate has actively encouraged others to do exactly what he did, which got him into the predicament hes in now. 

   The same spiritual force in Andrew Tate was the same in Bruce Lee, in Arnold, in Elon Musk, in Adolf Hitler, in Genghis Khan, in Alexander the great, in Julius Caesar, and so on! Am not saying to copy his behaviors exactly like his pump and dump or tax evasion or sexy trafficking, am saying to have the will towards a better life. No doomer gloomer incel has the will for a better life other than shooting up malls and schools man.

[Rafael Thundercat]

6 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Rafael Thundercat

100% getting cyber bullied and harassed here!

Come on, You like a good figth dont you?? Someone who used to watch a lot of Destiny must for sure like a good Drama.

[Carl-Richard]

This thread is getting more cancerous by the minute. Let's get back on track.

[Consept]

2 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Consept

   The same spiritual force in Andrew Tate was the same in Bruce Lee, in Arnold, in Elon Musk, in Adolf Hitler, in Genghis Khan, in Alexander the great, in Julius Caesar, and so on! Am not saying to copy his behaviors exactly like his pump and dump or tax evasion or sexy trafficking, am saying to have the will towards a better life. No doomer gloomer incel has the will for a better life other than shooting up malls and schools man.

Whats the point though, why not just follow someone who has the will and is healthy? Psychopaths may have lots of will to take over the world but in reality we should defend vulnerable people against them, not encourage them to be listened to. Look what happens when they get power and get people to follow them, it didnt work out well with Hitler. 

[Rafael Thundercat]

16 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

This thread is getting more cancerous by the minute. Let's get back on track.

As I said once. No Thread started with Tate go rise to high quality contemplations. When one start with Andrew, the derailing is guaranted. In my view better lock this one. The original poster is not even participating anymore. 

Edited June 23 by Rafael Thundercat

[Danioover9000]

@Consept

37 minutes ago, Consept said:

Whats the point though, why not just follow someone who has the will and is healthy? Psychopaths may have lots of will to take over the world but in reality we should defend vulnerable people against them, not encourage them to be listened to. Look what happens when they get power and get people to follow them, it didnt work out well with Hitler. 

   The point is to develop rationality and objectivity. For example most here just demonize Andrew Tate because Andrew Tate, or his sexist marketing, or now the crimes like sex trafficking and tax evasion. But that's less rational and objective, just dislike because of dislike or because a few bad and evil behaviors. A rational objective person can see what works and what doesn't, and apply what works. That's basically what I'm arguing for, you can hate on Andrew but don't throw the baby out with bath water. And if you like yes swap him with another male role modal like Bruce Lee for example, but again Bruce Lee or Arnold isn't a perfect male role modal, they also did a few bad things in their lives too! So when most people just demonize because of 1 evil thing, how is that mature and rational and objective?

[Rafael Thundercat]

51 minutes ago, Consept said:

Whats the point though, why not just follow someone who has the will and is healthy? Psychopaths may have lots of will to take over the world but in reality we should defend vulnerable people against them, not encourage them to be listened to. Look what happens when they get power and get people to follow them, it didnt work out well with Hitler. 

I was about to tell you to forget about argumentations with Dani. Is a lost case. Dani will always be rigth. Every venue need to have a Trickster,Joker or other names in different cultures. As far as I can observe Dani serves this funtion here. To take it personal and serious is just leaking energy, since, a man convinced against his will is not convinced still. 

[Consept]

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

The point is to develop rationality and objectivity

I would argue it is rational and objective not to follow him, when looking for people to follow you would look at the fruits of their advice and where that has gotten them. Being Tate has landed him several investigations into his behavior, to the point where hes not even allowed out of the country hes living in and when he does finish that case the UK have lined up a trial for him as well. All of his assets and everything he has achieved is purely through manipulation and criminal activities. OK yes there is some drive to be able to be a successful criminal but again this wouldnt be enough to say that hes someone that should be followed or would help a vulnerable person. Keep in mind, as I know youre stuck on this narrative, im not making a moral judgement on what hes done, im just saying his advice will lead to the circumstances that hes in. Its the same reason why i wouldnt advise a young person to listen to a drug dealer, a pimp or a cult leader, the outcomes for those that follow these types of people is usually not good. This would be a rational perspective, an irrational perspective would be believing that following someone like this would not lead to negative outcomes, this has been proven repeatedly throughout history, Nazis, Jim Jones followers etc. Even following people who promote get rich quick schemes (which Tate also does) will leave you loosing money. 

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

And if you like yes swap him with another male role modal like Bruce Lee for example, but again Bruce Lee or Arnold isn't a perfect male role modal, they also did a few bad things in their lives too!

No one is perfect but Arnie and Bruce Lee were not actively trying to recruit people and get as much money from them as possible, as well they werent literal criminals. 

 

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

So when most people just demonize because of 1 evil thing, how is that mature and rational and objective?

Its not about the numerous bad things hes done, of which there are many, its the fact that his rhetoric leads people into worse situations. He actively tells people not to study or get a job and just join his hustlers university where they can learn how to do get rich quick schemes whilst giving him money. This is not rational or objectively good advice. 

1 hour ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

I was about to tell you to forget about argumentations with Dani. Is a lost case. Dani will always be rigth. Every venue need to have a Trickster,Joker or other names in different cultures. As far as I can observe Dani serves this funtion here. To take it personal and serious is just leaking energy, since, a man convinced against his will is not convinced still. 

Im not taking it personal or serious but yeah youre probably right 

[Rafael Thundercat]

12 minutes ago, Consept said:

Im not taking it personal or serious but yeah youre probably right 

But also the role of the Trickster are in the Sundance Rituals to channel some energies from the field, some energies just the Trickster is able to deal with, and understand. And also to test the Focus of the participants that are there no eating and no drinking for 4 days. The trickster test your fiber and Integrity, because you will find tricksters in your daily life, and inside yourself too. So in the end Tricksters even help one to grow. Unless he tricks you.

[Danioover9000]

@Consept

8 hours ago, Consept said:

I would argue it is rational and objective not to follow him, when looking for people to follow you would look at the fruits of their advice and where that has gotten them. Being Tate has landed him several investigations into his behavior, to the point where hes not even allowed out of the country hes living in and when he does finish that case the UK have lined up a trial for him as well. All of his assets and everything he has achieved is purely through manipulation and criminal activities. OK yes there is some drive to be able to be a successful criminal but again this wouldnt be enough to say that hes someone that should be followed or would help a vulnerable person. Keep in mind, as I know youre stuck on this narrative, im not making a moral judgement on what hes done, im just saying his advice will lead to the circumstances that hes in. Its the same reason why i wouldnt advise a young person to listen to a drug dealer, a pimp or a cult leader, the outcomes for those that follow these types of people is usually not good. This would be a rational perspective, an irrational perspective would be believing that following someone like this would not lead to negative outcomes, this has been proven repeatedly throughout history, Nazis, Jim Jones followers etc. Even following people who promote get rich quick schemes (which Tate also does) will leave you loosing money. 

No one is perfect but Arnie and Bruce Lee were not actively trying to recruit people and get as much money from them as possible, as well they werent literal criminals. 

 

Its not about the numerous bad things hes done, of which there are many, its the fact that his rhetoric leads people into worse situations. He actively tells people not to study or get a job and just join his hustlers university where they can learn how to do get rich quick schemes whilst giving him money. This is not rational or objectively good advice. 

Im not taking it personal or serious but yeah youre probably right 

   Ok, you'd argue it's rational/objective to not follow Andrew Tate because xyz behaviors = sex trafficking, tax evasion = illegal = evil. Someone else could also argue it's rational/objective to follow Andrew Tate because xyz = success earlier in his life. I argue that it's rational/objective to first study Andrew Tate, what made him both good and bad, take what works for him and not the bad. I say emulate his drive and ambition, which IMO is lacking across the average modern young boys today, too many beta males and doomers and incels and mass shooters and all kinds of insecure young men, all lost their spirit and let down by both their family and even society. When I say Andrew Tate is an OK role modal, I don't mean to exactly follow his behavior, just the principles and quality, like desire, drive, ambition, the will to power. Also, ask @Leo Gura why he studies so much evil people like Adolf Hitler, Genghis Khan, Saddam Hussain, and many dictator biographies then? Why would he do that? Is he just trying to follow exact behaviors of dictators? Is he planning to be an evil person? When I say role modal or study Andrew Tate that /=/ copy his criminal behaviors, just like if you study Adolf Hitler that /=/ grow that mustache or act racist and Aryan. Role modal, and study for success means to take what works and not what doesn't or what led to evil, study both the evil and the good and just pick the good more than evil. But to do all that means you have to put time, energy, and attention into the person you're emulating, meaning if you emulate Andrew Tate, that means touching him and his life with your mind, seeing/hearing/feeling the good and the evil sides of him, and consciously choosing the good more than the bad, even if that means putting this 'evil' person like Stalin, Alexander the great, Julius Caesar, adopting their perspective for a while, think like them, imagining the good and the bad, and getting intimate in their skull, looking at the world they see and experience. That doesn't mean you become exactly like them, this means to develop perspective, understanding, and finally EMPATHY! Empathy the majority in this thread displaying a great LACK OF! Just hating on Andrew Tate and not LISTENING to what I'm communicating! Most of you are soulless and getting mind raped by social media sites and Tik Tok, and have the gale to just hate on anyone more successful than you, yet you let yourself get mind fucked like this??? I say if all of you had his spirit, and his will power, you'd all mostly disagree strongly and go about trying to achieve what you want, instead of being emotional at me for a difference in opinion.

   No, I'm not stuck in some narrative! I'm getting tired of Andrew and even Donald Trump hate in this place, no nuance, just hate, and immaturity. 

[Carl-Richard]

.@Danioover9000

When you have someone as a role model, especially when that role model preaches the key to all of life like Andrew Tate does, you usually emulate most of if not their entire persona. That's what I think most people mean by role model and why people react to you calling Andrew Tate a good role model. If you want to embody some virtue like drive or ambition, you can use other people as inspiration, but you wouldn't necessarily call them a role model.

Edited June 24 by Carl-Richard

[Danioover9000]

@Carl-Richard

23 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

.@Danioover9000

When you have someone as a role model, especially when that role model preaches the key to all of life like Andrew Tate does, you usually emulate most of if not their entire persona. That's what I think most people mean by role model and why people react to you calling Andrew Tate a good role model. If you want to embody some principle or virtue, you can use other people as inspiration, but you wouldn't necessarily call them a role model.

   So the confusion and trolling I'm getting is about what's good/bad role modal, and what that means? Because to me I can easily role modal, for example Charles Manson, and take a quality or a technique, what works, apply it to my life and I get 2% better at being persuasive or can sell something a little bit easier. But most people think if I role modal Charles Manson, I became like him and start a crazy cult and go crazy, or that I do most of his behaviour. I'm just saying to most to take Andrew's quality, like his desire and will power, take that soft power that helped him, and role modal that. Like Andrew's will power might be useful for you to do a skill or a drill or some action like stone carving, like you're being paid to make a statue so you need botb the skills for that  but the will power to persevere through it. How are you all thinking I'm ever suggesting young people act like a pimp or abusive or what?

   It's fine and am not opposed to you all choosing other role modals over Andrew, but I feel like just skipping Andrew for another is like avoiding something potentially useful. Like the cave is scary, but there's treasure and loot there that's useful, but the cave is scary and anyone suggesting the cave is useful is evil and nobody wants to question that. That's what I feel with these replies here. But yeah tradeoffs are a real thing so ok to try other role modals.

[Carl-Richard]

9 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

How are you all thinking I'm ever suggesting young people act like a pimp or abusive or what?

Because you're using the word "role model".

Edited June 24 by Carl-Richard

[Danioover9000]

@Carl-Richard

2 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Because you're using the word "role model".

   But that doesn't mean copy their behavior exactly though.

[Rafael Thundercat]

34 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Carl-Richard

   But that doesn't mean copy their behavior exactly though.

Dani.. is oover. 

Come on even you must get tired of your stubborness. Grow up

[zurew]

55 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

But that doesn't mean copy their behavior exactly though.

Typically role model means copying someone's way of life - which usually entails their virtues and morals.

But I think the disagreement you guys have is mostly just a semantic disagreement (you guys mean different things by the same word) and isn't a substantive disagreement (I think you guys would mostly agree on the substance , after clearing up the language) - like, I don't think anyone would have problem admitting that Tate has some good traits.

Edited June 24 by zurew

[Consept]

14 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

When I say role modal or study Andrew Tate that /=/ copy his criminal behaviors

'Most' people can see Tates negative and positive traits on this forum and wouldnt follow his criminal behaviors. The issue is that most of his followers can not and he can and regularly does take them down the wrong path. So he is technically a role model, the definition of role model literally being someone to imitate, as people do look up to him and imitate him, but he is a terrible role model as he has led people in directions where at worst theyve ended up in trouble with the law and at best probably just lost some money. 

What seems to be the confusion is the difference between saying someone is good role model and saying someone should be studied objectively. For example we could say that Hitler was good at engaging people and look at why without taking his rhetoric on, this is possible however i wouldnt advise using it to other people as it involves a lot of manipulation and deception. I would say its only really good from an inquisitive standpoint but I wouldnt actually want to adopt any of the behaviors. I see Tate in the same way, as in its interesting to see why he is so effective at grabbing peoples attention but i wouldnt look at him or suggest him as a role model for vulnerable young men, I think he will cause more harm than good, this has been proven consistently if you look at actual evidence of war room chat logs or people who have come out and talked of their experience of the war room, where they say Tates word was treated as gospel and noone ever disagreed with him and did anything he said. Theres a story where Tate said most people couldnt sit in their bathroom for 12 hours and lots of the followers just did it. 

So you can put your head in the sand and say yes everyone can seperate the good and bad but in practice it just doesnt happen, if it did you wouldnt get cult leaders. Its the same with Trump, most of his followers dont even accept that he can do any wrong, im pretty sure if he killed someone at his rally on camera theyd still back him. So obviously they are not looking at him objectively, this is why thee people are terrible role models. 

If your general point is bad people can have some effective traits then yeah no one will disagree, but being a good role model is something else. 

[Rafael Thundercat]

Here. You guys want Inspiration for Man Groudness and Integrity. Here is for you.

Again, forget this Jesters like Tate, the time is for Real Maleness 

https://www.awakenedintent.com/events/the-cultivated-man?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAabedMhcQhb9xEtOWW35pOFAdxiYCPH2mydk7Den9tS_kKZStktGIx0-41k_aem_gX6l4J71wTTdu_FM0jd98w

[Danioover9000]

@zurew

On 2024-06-24 at 2:57 PM, zurew said:

Typically role model means copying someone's way of life - which usually entails their virtues and morals.

But I think the disagreement you guys have is mostly just a semantic disagreement (you guys mean different things by the same word) and isn't a substantive disagreement (I think you guys would mostly agree on the substance , after clearing up the language) - like, I don't think anyone would have problem admitting that Tate has some good traits.

   Yeah, maybe you're right. I'm mostly getting semantic disagreements, and some just trolling and gaslighting me to think what I'm saying with role modal is copy Tate's bad and criminal behaviors. No, I am just saying Tate has a few good traits, and just study his few good ones, and few principles like desire, drive, ambition, will to power. Like that. I mean there's a lot of will to power that Bruce Lee gone through, Arnold gone through, and several other better males than Tate did gone through. What's so semantically confusing with what I've been saying here????😑 Obviously not telling young men to be a pimp/sex trafficker/ tax evader like Tate, but to fatten your will up and your ambition up. Most people must at some point be more selfish enough to help themselves up, and be selfishly strong enough to be selfless.