Islam is a great spiritual path

[Ayham]

I was born Muslim but never got convinced of it,  I used to hate it, now I am finding my way back to it but of course not in dogmatic way, I don't see it as absolute truth but I like the teachings, a lot of it that might seem outdated, is made to fit the people back then, a lot of people claim "scientific miracles" from the Quran, some of which make sense, others don't, but in general, the 5 main pillars of Islam are great for advancing spirituallty if you do it right (unlike most Muslims)
 

The five pillars are:

1. Believing in one god and that Muhammed is the last prophet (Sufis believe in Awliya, which is like someone close to the prophet level, someone very highly spiritually attained, but not exactly a prophet, and technically, no major religion has started after Islam, so Muhammed is actually the final prophet)
2. Daily prayer 5 times a day (a great way of introducing bhakti and devotion)
3. Charity (small amount) 
4. Fasting of Ramadan (we all know that various saints and spiritual people in history have used fasting, including Buddha and Jesus)
5. Pilgrimage to Mecca once in life if you are able to
6. Some Sufis added a sixth thing, which is Dhikr (constant rememberence of god), by chanting a mantra like La Illaha Ila Allah (there is no god but Allah), or Allahu la illaha ila hu al hayu al qayuum (allah, there is no god but him, the ever-living, the ever-subsisting), basically a form of meditation

 

Now you can't really group Islam under one thing, there is too many sects and sub-sects, the Sufis are really spiritual, but the dominant form of Islam these days, in Arab world at least, is the most dangerous, Salafi Islam, this is what has the tendency to become terrorism.

Even though all my life, I looked at Western things, it has been fun discovering Islamic and Arabic things, the tradition, literature, poetry, philosophy, etc. is huge and really underrated, especially the mystical aspects, I am seeing how it can be a way of fully reaching enlightenment.

 

The main problem is, for most of you, is that you need to understand Arabic to fully understand Islam, which I would say is also worthwhile since you unlock huge poetry and literature, but its too hard. 

 

 

[Evan Gill]

Sometimes when we are born into a religion and forced to believe in it, we will develop a certain disdain for it. But when you find it on your own terms, when the time is right for you, you really begin to see the beauty of the teachings. Especially when you remove all of the Dogma.

[Ayham]

@Evan Gill very much yes, that is exactly my situation.

 

[Danioover9000]

@Ayham

On 2024-06-18 at 2:23 PM, Ayham said:

I was born Muslim but never got convinced of it,  I used to hate it, now I am finding my way back to it but of course not in dogmatic way, I don't see it as absolute truth but I like the teachings, a lot of it that might seem outdated, is made to fit the people back then, a lot of people claim "scientific miracles" from the Quran, some of which make sense, others don't, but in general, the 5 main pillars of Islam are great for advancing spirituallty if you do it right (unlike most Muslims)
 

The five pillars are:

1. Believing in one god and that Muhammed is the last prophet (Sufis believe in Awliya, which is like someone close to the prophet level, someone very highly spiritually attained, but not exactly a prophet, and technically, no major religion has started after Islam, so Muhammed is actually the final prophet)
2. Daily prayer 5 times a day (a great way of introducing bhakti and devotion)
3. Charity (small amount) 
4. Fasting of Ramadan (we all know that various saints and spiritual people in history have used fasting, including Buddha and Jesus)
5. Pilgrimage to Mecca once in life if you are able to
6. Some Sufis added a sixth thing, which is Dhikr (constant rememberence of god), by chanting a mantra like La Illaha Ila Allah (there is no god but Allah), or Allahu la illaha ila hu al hayu al qayuum (allah, there is no god but him, the ever-living, the ever-subsisting), basically a form of meditation

 

Now you can't really group Islam under one thing, there is too many sects and sub-sects, the Sufis are really spiritual, but the dominant form of Islam these days, in Arab world at least, is the most dangerous, Salafi Islam, this is what has the tendency to become terrorism.

Even though all my life, I looked at Western things, it has been fun discovering Islamic and Arabic things, the tradition, literature, poetry, philosophy, etc. is huge and really underrated, especially the mystical aspects, I am seeing how it can be a way of fully reaching enlightenment.

 

The main problem is, for most of you, is that you need to understand Arabic to fully understand Islam, which I would say is also worthwhile since you unlock huge poetry and literature, but its too hard. 

 

 

   I agree, Salafi Islam, Wahhabism, and this infighting with Shias and Sufis, having at least 3 versions of Islam, caliphate Islam, most of that is pretty dangerous. This is why metaphorical understanding, which stage orange/green and even those with some yellow are capable of, is way more important than literal understanding, which is mostly stage blue to red.

   Honestly, I'd pick ideally Jainism or even Buddhism to follow the spirituality, but we have biases indoctrinated into us, so being in alignment with those biases we do and think the thinking we do is also important. 

[Chadders]

@Ayham I must admit I do have a certain bias against Islam. I tend to believe it is more conflict orientated though this can be said of majority of religions. Maybe more though with Islam since you have extremist elements like Wahhabism with Al Qaeda and ISIS. Christianity does as well but not on the same level or global impact

I think it is interesting to explore where the true spirituality is in any religion. In Christianity it is the teachings of Jesus though you need to cut through some of the bullshit interpretations

I’m not so sure if the prophet Muhammad had the same spiritual connectivity that Jesus had though again I might be wrong! I am biased and I don’t know as much about Islam. I grew up within a semi Christian family. The Old Testament is just trash in spiritual terms

[Danioover9000]

@Chadders

49 minutes ago, Chadders said:

@Ayham I must admit I do have a certain bias against Islam. I tend to believe it is more conflict orientated though this can be said of majority of religions. Maybe more though with Islam since you have extremist elements like Wahhabism with Al Qaeda and ISIS. Christianity does as well but not on the same level or global impact

I think it is interesting to explore where the true spirituality is in any religion. In Christianity it is the teachings of Jesus though you need to cut through some of the bullshit interpretations

I’m not so sure if the prophet Muhammad had the same spiritual connectivity that Jesus had though again I might be wrong! I am biased and I don’t know as much about Islam. I grew up within a semi Christian family. The Old Testament is just trash in spiritual terms

   I agree, I do have a Christian bias, and I know my history in regards with Islam and their caliphate, the levels of slavery they do, the destroying of other cultural icons. Trust me be glad we're not living under caliphate Islam it's much worse than living under Christianity!😂

[Danioover9000]

   Also, the more you know the better you are I guess:

 

[Chives99]

the abrahamic seem very dualistic , any kind of worship fuels seperation

[Danioover9000]

@Chives99

2 minutes ago, Chives99 said:

the abrahamic seem very dualistic , any kind of worship fuels seperation

   Why generalize to Abrahamic religions instead of saying caliphate Islam mainly? Also most religions have that degree that if you blindly believe and worship just because your family or friends or community do that so you just copy that group's behavior, then there's bound to be some separation. Don't expect god consciousness or whatever @Leo Gura's Awakening teaching is name is. In practice, if you want by default god consciousness you're guaranteed to be in an Asylum. You cannot go through live with that level of consciousness.

[Danioover9000]

@Evan Gill

On 2024-06-18 at 4:08 PM, Evan Gill said:

Sometimes when we are born into a religion and forced to believe in it, we will develop a certain disdain for it. But when you find it on your own terms, when the time is right for you, you really begin to see the beauty of the teachings. Especially when you remove all of the Dogma.

   I agree, but be careful not turning into some cult or some preacher now and trying to convert others into your religion. That's when it gets dangerous.

[Leo Gura]

On 6/18/2024 at 6:23 AM, Ayham said:

The main problem is, for most of you, is that you need to understand Arabic to fully understand Islam, which I would say is also worthwhile since you unlock huge poetry and literature, but its too hard. 

I don't need any Arabic to understand Allah.

You can keep all the human shit. It only dirties Allah.

Edited June 20 by Leo Gura

[Ayham]

@Danioover9000 yeah, Islam is associated with violence, this is a large topic, the first 3 caliphates are the ones that caused most of what you are talking about, which the Shia don't consider righteous and only believe in the 4th caliphate.

On the other hand, Islam was born in a very barbaric culture, this isn't unexpected.

On the other other hand, Muhammed himself preached a lot of peace, here's some of his sayings:

“You will not enter Paradise until you believe and you will not believe until you love each other. Shall I show you something that, if you did, you would love each other? Spread peace among yourselves.” (Sahih Bukhari)

“Avoid cruelty and injustice, and guard yourselves against miserliness, for this has ruined nations who lived before you.” 

“Shall I inform you of something that holds a higher status than fasting, praying, and giving charity? Making peace between people, for verily sowing dissension between people is indeed calamitous.” 

“Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.” (Quran 2:190)

 

And there's stuff that aren't peaceful at all, I personally interpret it as a result of the culture there, Salafism or Wahabism, tries to practice religion the same way as 1400 years ago, but other sects are different, and also, Salafism isn't exactly terrorism, most Salafis are pretty opposed to terrorism.

Shi'as are pretty cool, as well as Sufis and Ash'aris 

 

 

@Leo Gura To understand Allah directly, sure, but I meant Muslim theology and philosophy, which you aren't interested in much so yeah.

But yes, language is a distraction when it comes to understanding god or Allah directly.

[Danioover9000]

@Ayham

14 minutes ago, Ayham said:

@Danioover9000 yeah, Islam is associated with violence, this is a large topic, the first 3 caliphates are the ones that caused most of what you are talking about, which the Shia don't consider righteous and only believe in the 4th caliphate.

On the other hand, Islam was born in a very barbaric culture, this isn't unexpected.

On the other other hand, Muhammed himself preached a lot of peace, here's some of his sayings:

“You will not enter Paradise until you believe and you will not believe until you love each other. Shall I show you something that, if you did, you would love each other? Spread peace among yourselves.” (Sahih Bukhari)

“Avoid cruelty and injustice, and guard yourselves against miserliness, for this has ruined nations who lived before you.” 

“Shall I inform you of something that holds a higher status than fasting, praying, and giving charity? Making peace between people, for verily sowing dissension between people is indeed calamitous.” 

“Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.” (Quran 2:190)

 

And there's stuff that aren't peaceful at all, I personally interpret it as a result of the culture there, Salafism or Wahabism, tries to practice religion the same way as 1400 years ago, but other sects are different, and also, Salafism isn't exactly terrorism, most Salafis are pretty opposed to terrorism.

Shi'as are pretty cool, as well as Sufis and Ash'aris 

 

 

@Leo Gura To understand Allah directly, sure, but I meant Muslim theology and philosophy, which you aren't interested in much so yeah.

But yes, language is a distraction when it comes to understanding god or Allah directly.

   Don't take what Leo says too personal, he's on some aliens level of consciousness and hyper metaphorical moral relativist post modernist understandings or stuff like that.😂 Yes it's fine to interpret your religion via stage blue, which is mostly literal categorical thinking in binaries and what is literally written in the Quran, but also it's possible to metaphorically think and interpret the other passages less literally and more metaphorically and context relative. For example the literal interpretation of it being halal to eat pork meat, comes from when the emissaries first witnessed the living conditions of pig livestock from Europeans, and assuming that most pigs intentionally live in their own shit and cover themselves in mud therefore unclean. I'm even willing to bet that then it's much harder to cure meat therefore pig meat spoils and when you eat spoiled meat it leads to digestive diseases like diarrhea which was very difficult then to treat, so the prophets simply made it forbidden to eat such an animal. Yet when you zone out and really look at pigs, actually pigs had to cover themselves in mud and even their own shit because they live in enclosures and when the climate gets hotter they need to cool off, and naturally pigs and wild pigs for the most part actually don't cover themselves in shit if they don't have to, but because they're in enclosures they had to, and due to one misinterpretation and misperception by one prophet the entire animal species get's demonized in future generations without knowing fully why it's demonized in the first place.

   And of course, every civilization, tribe, starting points of empires and religions can and do turn violent, as per design by the god/devil, and as a consequence of Spiral Dynamics stages of development going from stage purple, to red and blue. The prior Arabic culture before Islam was pretty radical and had normalized their own culture, so in their perspective Islam then, especially the first 3 caliphates were radical to follow, and they believed in quite a number of deities so the unification under caliphate Islam, by force and warfare, makes sense and is a consequence of a past culture defending itself from assimilation into some religion it resisted. Yes Islam especially then was very much stage blue and red when it's warring with other cultures and when it's destroying cultural artifacts.

[Davino]

On 18/6/2024 at 3:23 PM, Ayham said:

The main problem is, for most of you, is that you need to understand Arabic to fully understand Islam, which I would say is also worthwhile since you unlock huge poetry and literature, but its too hard. 

Allah invented all languages