Leo, do you still hold the belief that 5meo DMT can cause permanent enlightenment?

[Scholar]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That can be said about anything.

Your mom can be a delusion made up by your very human mind.

The issue is that you are framing existence as illusiory, or "imagined". That's because the perceiver has not been deconstructed.

There is no mind, mind is just a form of existence which can be dissolved. Once that is done, there is no imagination, you simply recognize the nature of existence as what it is, changing and infinite.

 

This however does not mean that existence does not relate to itself in certain ways. Your alien consciousness relation could merely be a dream, a neurological phenomena. An advanced AI could take your brain and it could stimulate certain parts of it such that you'd have an alien experience. It would understand how your brain relates to certain aspects of existence, how the particular expression of the wavefunction of the universe, or the geometric relations of universal existence, relate to these particular expression of infinitude. 

 

If you look at the brain as a particular relationship, and then the relationship between the brain and what you call "consciousness" as another relation, the assumption is that because the relationship that we call "brain" or "brain-activity" is limited (geometrically, mathematically, physically), it therefore means that what it relates to must also be limited in such a way.

But this is no the case, you can have a limited number of neurons that interact with infinitudes. In an abstract sense, a neurological complexity of 2 neurons could relate to infinite space.

You would assume that two neurons could only create so much "space". But two neurons can have a relationship with space, which is infinite, and the neurological complexity would then determine how sophisticated the separations are within this space. Full neurological activity would be infinite space (or better, total space), where as partial activity would be partial space.

 

From the perspective of a human mind, totality of space (meaning, literally infinite spatiousness) is not common, so when this experience occurs, it seems so all encompassing, so total, that the mind deems it as "beyond the brain".

But this is not beyond the brain, because your notions of what a brain can do/how it relates to other aspects of existence is naive and reductionistic. And infinite experience can be had with a finite relationship between different aspects of existence, that's what is being missed, because of a failure of imagination.

 

I don't think you will ever experience anything outside of the informational landscape of your brain, not in this form of existence. The fact that you experience universal relationships from the perspective of a solipsistic object will only confirm to you, given you engage in full delusion, that this is the only object that can exist.

Ergo, this hallucination is all that exists, because you are taking the hallucination itself as the prime and total arbiter of reality and existence.

The solipistic nature of the object, given the investigation into it's own nature by means of realizing it's own existence, will necessarily lead you to conclude what you have concluded about reality. It is not a conclusion grounded in the absolute nature of existence, but rather your epistemic approach towards how to determine the nature of existence.

 

In other words, because your epistemic framework has taken it's particular existence, which is all of existence that exists to itself, as the grounds from which to determine what can and cannot exist, the description of it's own nature necessarily would become the description of existence itself.

Totality is simple what existence looks like, or is. Each individual aspect of existence is Total, but this feeling of totality is then projected as a concept onto the notion of reality itself. Notice that the feeling of totality is indeed a feeling, separate from the totality of any given aspect of existence.

Edited June 20 by Scholar

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Scholar said:

The issue is that you are framing existence as illusiory, or "imagined". That's because the perceiver has not been deconstructed.

No.

Regradless of what you say, do, or how enlightened you get, physical reality will always be imagined by you. There's no way around that.

No amount of deconstructing the self will change that.

Deconstructing the self is a fine thing but it has no bearing on the nature of Consciousness which I describe. Consciousness is the way that I say and works the way that I say. How much you choose to deconstruct yourself is up to you. But the house you sleep in, the trees you see, and the people you meet will always be imaginary.

Edited June 21 by Leo Gura

[Malekakisioannis]

@Leo Gura what do you mean by imagined? How do you conclude that it is imagined? How can i discover that for myself? Imagination has a certain connotation but you Keep using it for everything that exists? 

[Davino]

@Malekakisioannis Reality is a Dream of Consciousness.

Become conscious enough, you will see it. How to become more conscious? I cannot tell what will work for you. I'm biased towards psychedelics and intense kundalini yoga. Find what works for you and you will realize beyond doubt that Reality is a Dream of Consciousness.

[Leo Gura]

48 minutes ago, Malekakisioannis said:

@Leo Gura what do you mean by imagined?

Physical reality is imaginary.

Pick up a small object, hold it in your hands, and try to notice that it is imaginary.

Quote

How do you conclude that it is imagined?

Higher consciousness/awakened consciousness is required.

Quote

How can i discover that for myself?

Take psychedelic amd do the above exercise.

Quote

Imagination has a certain connotation but you Keep using it for everything that exists? 

Humans consider imagination to only be what happens inside your head. But that is 2nd order imagination. 1st order imagination is the physical world outside your head.

The key is to realize that there is no boundary between inside your head and outside your head. So everything is just different orders of imagination.

In a dream every part of it is imaginary. The whole dream world is imagination. And so is life. Again, the key is to realize there is no boundary between a dream and life.

Edited June 21 by Leo Gura

[Malekakisioannis]

@Leo Gura so i am imagining you talking to me and denying that it is imaginary? If i ask my girlfriend if she is conscious her answer is imagined by me and so is not legit? That means i cant trust anything anyone says. How can i forget that then and go back to ignorance? If i die will i forget?

[Leo Gura]

25 minutes ago, Malekakisioannis said:

@Leo Gura so i am imagining you talking to me and denying that it is imaginary? If i ask my girlfriend if she is conscious her answer is imagined by me and so is not legit? That means i cant trust anything anyone says. How can i forget that then and go back to ignorance? If i die will i forget?

Don't think of it in such a shallow way.

Imagination IS reality.

"Not legit" is not right. You are treating imagination as something bad.

You haven't become conscious of it yet, so you are currently in the forgotten state.

Death is imaginary.

Edited June 21 by Leo Gura

[shree]

56 minutes ago, Malekakisioannis said:

@Leo Gura so i am imagining you talking to me and denying that it is imaginary? If i ask my girlfriend if she is conscious her answer is imagined by me and so is not legit? That means i cant trust anything anyone says. How can i forget that then and go back to ignorance? If i die will i forget?

The top of the mountain may be in front of your nose, but you are blinded by looking at the map.

 

Books, religion, spirituality, even Leo's words are just pointers, maps.

 

When a person who has experienced the absolute says this is all a dream, it doesn’t mean material reality is irrelevant or non-existent.

 

It just means it's pale in comparison with the experience of the absolute. Pale as a dream is to the material world.

[Malekakisioannis]

@Davino why do i have to take imaginary substances and do imaginary practices? How do i become conscious of it NOW? How do i end the bullshot NOW?

[Leo Gura]

The material world is the absolute. The absolute is the dream.

[Malekakisioannis]

@shree "person who has experienced" is completely antithetical to dream characters telling me stuff.

[Malekakisioannis]

@Leo Gura i want to forget that i am in the forgotten state. 

Edited June 21 by Malekakisioannis

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Malekakisioannis said:

@Davino why do i have to take imaginary substances and do imaginary practices? How do i become conscious of it NOW? How do i end the bullshot NOW?

You don't control the dream. You are stuck in the dream. So you gotta play by its rules.

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Malekakisioannis said:

@Leo Gura i want to forget that i am in the forgotten state.

That is easy, just go about human business. Have some kids, start a business, watch some TV, etc.

Edited June 21 by Leo Gura

[shree]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The material world is the absolute. The absolute is the dream.

You cannot know that unless you have experienced the infinity. That is my point.

[Malekakisioannis]

@Leo Gura once the virus is inside you cannot forget. I am infinitely intelligent, it should be easier. I have already done it once maybe i can do it again. 

[Leo Gura]

@Malekakisioannis Stop torturing yourself. If you want truth pursue it joyfully, and if not then pursue other things. But don't relate to truth in a tortured way.

Truth is a beautiful thing. Whatever is true is good, and that's all there is to it. Adding drama to it is unneeded.

Edited June 21 by Leo Gura

[Malekakisioannis]

@Leo Gura thank you self.

[Davino]

@Malekakisioannis ground yourself. If you want to access higher states of consciousness your mind needs to be more stable and cohesive.

No drama, just do the work whole mindedly and with your heart on the left hand.

[Malekakisioannis]

@Davino there is no ground in infinity. Drama is the only game in town. Higher and lower are dualities. Cohesion and stability are imaginary. There is no work in eternity. I am the only authority. Basic stuff.  I will prefer silence. No disrespect self.

Edited June 21 by Malekakisioannis