Leo, do you still hold the belief that 5meo DMT can cause permanent enlightenment?

[Davino]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I have a genetic autoimmune disorder.

That's real tough.

Sigh...

Edited June 19 by Davino

[Scholar]

16 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I have no experience of that. That's not how I experience higher consciousness at all.

I find psychedelics have a profoundly powerful delusionary pull. Given your intention, you can make anything your reality and be convinced it is the nature of reality.

[MsNobody]

@What Am I No, its called União do Vegetal, Santo Daime is more relaxed with their rules, they also add other plants to the brew besides mariri and chacrona, they smoke weed and do rapé after sessions. I have been once but the place was very sketchy, because UDV has more rules they are also more organized.

It's so silly, like yeah we drink the most powerful psychedelic in the world even tho christ never spoke about it, like ayahuasca doesn't fit anywhere in christianity, and they go on condemning the use of any other psychedelics, it's a cult, and it's very patriarchal, the people leading the sessions are called mestre (like master) and the women cannot drink the tea alone or have only women ceremonies, only men lead sessions, they are against homosexuals, women cannot prepare the brew when they are menstruating cause they are dirty. I would take it and go within, trashing what didnt serve me.

I got into so many heated discussions there lol we used to do sessions inside a community church and on the walls were paintings of women's body, not sexual, one of them was a black women pregnant and her belly was planet earth. They would cover all the walls, and they would let people ask questions in the sessions, whenever someone brought up sex, the covered images, or anything related to women they would just say "we dont talk about that" and meanwhile 50% of visions were naked women or sexual stuff (probably repressed stuff from my subconscious), I used to judge myself a lot, now I think it's beautiful, getting out of the church allowed me to remove the remaining beliefs from stage blue and start seeing my body as sacred. 

Spirituality nowadays became the new religion, it's funny how the roots of christianity are still ingrained in all of our minds. 

I do have a lot of visions, I never broke through with 5meo dmt, but I've tried it many times, apparently I had a high tolerance and was afraid to pump up the dose, I even went to a Martin Ball lecture to ask him, he told me to try salvia that would help break my mind open, then I stopped trying, the experiences I had before were too intense and reality shattering. 

After doing 5meo whenever I smoked weed, it would bring me back to the experience, like people are just figurative and didnt really exist and my vision would distort, I would look around my room and it was like a perspective drawing, I could see the nothingness behind everything, and I felt like reality was made of plastic lol like a scenario where they record a show or movie, I was getting Truman Showd lol then I went through a depressive phase of solipsism, nowadays I see how much that helped me with being more authentic. 

So funny you talked about bird, it reminded me of one of the times I did 5meo, I snorted and laid down, it was like the electrical current of the substance was more than my body could handle, I basically stopped breathing, but at the time I didn't have the knowledge that breathing is a construction of the mind, I got up desperate and went outside for air, when I went outside I started hearing this really loud noise inside my head, then I looked up and a bird was flying really really high, but at the same time the sounds of its wings flapping were inside my head, my mind was creating the bird and the noise, and not only I could hear him but I could understand the mechanism of the wings, it was like the bird was there just for me, to witness. A couple weeks after that I was putting gas in my car and it hit me really hard, that when I left my apartment the apartment cease to exist, unless I was there to witness, my mind was creating the apartment, the apartment was in my mind. I'm still integrating all of that, it was 5 years ago and it has never left me, I stopped thinking about what people think about me, because there is only me, I call it sacred fuck it. I wonder hjow it would be if I broke through. 

[MsNobody]

@Leo Gura I'm so intrigued that you've never tried ayahuasca, I know you dont want to puke or purge but from all psychedelics I've studied so far, ayahuasca is the best one for healing because it heals on the DNA level. Im sure you have done your research but worth trying. Im sorry to hear that, health problems are the worst, can't believe how you create all this content dealing with pain. 

[MsNobody]

@Water by the River I actually bought the Inner Path to Outer Visions when I was at the psychedelic conference but havent read yet, this topic is a rabbit hole for me, need to be careful cause it might not be very useful for where Im at now in life. Eventually I will dive deeper, thank you for the recommendations. 

[MsNobody]

@Cubbage Ohh I love ketamine! But need to be careful, recently some people died in Brazil, it was a cult and this women injected her daughter and son with ketamine, she would record them in k holes and make fun of them. There were also more people in the cult being injected. They live in Amazon the state, they had like a farm with snakes and some other weird stuff, super creepy. 

 

Edited June 19 by MsNobody

[Breakingthewall]

For me the difference in well-being and happiness after using 5 meo, let's say... I don't know how many times, hundreds ,is complete.

My purpose with 5 meo was completely clear from the beginning: breaking all the walls. nothing more, that's all, anything else is a wall. Are you smart or maybe....are you not so smart? because it's obvious. What this game is about is expanding to infinity permanently, because obviously, you are infinite, so why do you perceive yourself as finite? there is an error in it and that error causes contraction, discomfort, unhappiness, distortion, pain, depression, rage, anger, hatred, young padawan, you are up to your eyeballs in self-hatred that stinks like shit and you must disintegrate those walls that contain it and that it diffuses into infinity, which is all the total glory, since wherever you look, it is infinite. then in your chest only one expression will resonate: hallelujah. even if your girlfriend leaves you and you are an old man alone in a stinking residence. Hallelujah, because reality is total glory without limit and you are the source and the flow.

Edited June 19 by Breakingthewall

[BlessedLion]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No. In fact psychedelics make it easier in the sense that you know what to aim for.

It is harder in the sense that you might be less motivated to work as hard. But maybe you will be more motivated. That might be a personal difference.

My health problems existed regardless of psychedelics. I have a genetic autoimmune disorder.

Cheers. Hope you get healthy again, hang in there 🫶

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Scholar said:

I find psychedelics have a profoundly powerful delusionary pull. Given your intention, you can make anything your reality and be convinced it is the nature of reality.

And I find that sober life has a powerful delusionary pull.

That IS the nature of Consciousness. Whatever you imagine deeply enough becomes reality.

Edited June 19 by Leo Gura

[What Am I]

2 hours ago, MsNobody said:

@What Am I No, its called União do Vegetal, Santo Daime is more relaxed with their rules, they also add other plants to the brew besides mariri and chacrona, they smoke weed and do rapé after sessions. I have been once but the place was very sketchy, because UDV has more rules they are also more organized.

Oh nice, UDV is the other famous one that I've heard of. Even though your experience with them soured, it's cool you got to check them out. It's just too bad they're stuck in that type of stifling paradigm. You'd think having their minds routinely blown wide open by ayahuasca would broaden their horizons lol.

2 hours ago, MsNobody said:

I do have a lot of visions, I never broke through with 5meo dmt, but I've tried it many times, apparently I had a high tolerance and was afraid to pump up the dose, I even went to a Martin Ball lecture to ask him, he told me to try salvia that would help break my mind open, then I stopped trying, the experiences I had before were too intense and reality shattering. 

IMO, 5meo is the ultimate psychedelic for assisting spiritual advancement. It sounds like you're having all the expected effects, where the changes in perception stick with you afterward due to the energetic events during the trip. Your breathing even slowed/stopped, which is another huge sign of getting into that state where you're flooded with energy and about to activate kundalini. I get how you're hesitant to go further, because that shit is nuts.

I guess I'd recommend you keep working towards a breakthrough, but it's actually really hard to wholeheartedly recommend it when the experience is so unbelievably hardcore. It's also hard to say how any particular person will react. I think there's a lot of unidentified individual factors at play as to whether it's just too much too soon. I'd recommend you trust your gut on how to move forward with 5meo.

Edited June 19 by What Am I

[Scholar]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That IS the nature of Consciousness. Whatever you imagine deeply enough becomes reality.

Right but it's easy to delude yourself around the content of consciousness and claim it is fundamental.

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Right but it's easy to delude yourself around the content of consciousness and claim it is fundamental.

No easier than it is to delude yourself otherwise.

Delusion cuts in all directions. There is no escape from your own bullshit. Any time you think you''ve escaped bullshit, you haven't because your mind is still active.

Edited June 19 by Leo Gura

[What Am I]

6 hours ago, Water by the River said:

These beings & abduction-phenomena appear since prehistoric times, all cultures, all places, all centuries. Some have them with psychedelics, some without.

Yes, definitely. It would appear human life on Earth is not what it seems. It boggles my mind how so many people with spiritual beliefs can understand that we're actually cosmic beings living an infinite existence, and we're all in fact the singular ultra-being at the highest level, but the notion of these other extreme situations also existing and being intricately connected to the spiritual phenomenon is just a step too far for them. Within the first year of realizing spirituality was a fact, I had to take inventory and modify basically all of my previous assumptions. The world is just so much bigger than I used to think.

Edited June 19 by What Am I

[Leo Gura]

They are here for Uranus.

[What Am I]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

They are here for Uranus.

I'd like to see them get past my trusty industrial-strength butt plug!

Edited June 20 by What Am I

[Juan]

4 hours ago, MsNobody said:

ayahuasca is the best one for healing because it heals on the DNA level.

I have to keep working with ayahuasca but so far I would said I agree with this. Each ceremony feels to me like closing and opening a new chapter in my life, I had healed from suicidal thoughts and hardcore depression thanks to it. Compared to mushroom, LSD and MDMA didn’t do a lot. 
 

[Scholar]

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No easier than it is to delude yourself otherwise.

Delusion cuts in all directions. There is no escape from your own bullshit. Any time you think you''ve escaped bullshit, you haven't because your mind is still active.

Right but the alien consciousness stuff and alien language and whatever and your perception of it being some deeper intelligence could literally just be a dream delusion made up by your very human mind.

Given the nature of psychedelics you could delude yourself this content is somehow mapping onto existence in a way that it simply does not. 

 

I sometimes have dreams that are more real than reality. Normal dreams, where I can lucidly and clearly see I see everything around me in a level of detail and vividness that I don't experience during waking life.

There is all kinds of things my brain alone can do without any deeper necessity for some sort of consciousness expansions. We know this because we now have technology that can do the same. In fact we'll probably be able to record these dreams soon given advances in technology.

 

The problem with psychedelics is that they do the opposite of deconstructive work. While they have a deconstructive component, they also will make you severely overconfident and susceptible to convincing yourself of any given intention you have set for yourself. In my view the alien stuff you experience is literally just a dream that you brain is generating, and we'll have prove of this sooner or later. There is nothing magical about this, otherwise you'd be able to use that intelligence to solve any type of real world problem. But the convenient thing is you can't solve shit with it, for whatever made up reason.

The thing about psychedelics is that they will give you a SENSE and FEELING of deeper meaning, deeper "realness" and so forth. But they can do so for ANYTHING at all that your consciousness can come up with, including any delusion.

 

The feeling of deeper "realness" and deeper "meaning" is not deconstructed while on psychedelics, it is amplified. And a deconstruction of those feelings is necessary if you don't want to get captured by these simple egoic dynamics.

[tlowedajuicemayne]

@Leo Gura Thanks for replying to this. I didn't realize such a conversation would bloom here. I came back after a few days and here it all is! lol. 

 

I do think that there is a lot of debating and stuff in here so I won't reply to all that. I wonder what these folks aim to accomplish via these debates? 

Why do you participate in these Leo? 

 

Just curious. 

 

Thanks again

 

 

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Scholar said:

Right but the alien consciousness stuff and alien language and whatever and your perception of it being some deeper intelligence could literally just be a dream delusion made up by your very human mind.

That can be said about anything.

Your mom can be a delusion made up by your very human mind.

Edited June 20 by Leo Gura

[What Am I]

51 minutes ago, tlowedajuicemayne said:

I do think that there is a lot of debating and stuff in here so I won't reply to all that. I wonder what these folks aim to accomplish via these debates?

It is pretty typical that the original topic eventually gets lost as it goes on. Any thread can serve as a type of testing ground for the sharing of experiences and comparison of theories once it spins in that direction.

In the best cases, it becomes a dialectic aimed at arriving on a truth that neither party was previously aware of. In the worst cases, it's a contentious debate with the goal of proving oneself as correct at the cost of the other person. We should obviously aim for the former.