Leo, do you still hold the belief that 5meo DMT can cause permanent enlightenment?

[MsNobody]

@Leo Gura can you please elaborate on that, almost doing crazy amounts of DMT to reach those levels. 

Every time I do ayahuasca the aliens take my body to I don't know where to do I don't know what and my mind is always fighting saying it's just a vision. Last one I was on a spaceship and they were rummaging my body, like an operation of some sort inside an MRI like machine. Something that I've noticed is that they receive/heal me like I'm coming from war, there is a sense of urgency, is planet earth war? So many questions. 

[Jannes]

28 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Look, part of the way happiness works is that any gains you make just become your default and then happiness gets recalculated from there.

It's hard for me to even remember what my life was like 10 years ago. I honestly just forget that state of mind.

Yes, it does comfort me to know that death is an imaginary thing. But it's not like I walk around thrilled about it. Happiness just doesn't work that way. Being thrilled about things is a temporary and fleeting state.

The reason I'm not more peaceful and happy is because any gains I made from spirituality have been counterbalanced by serious chronic health issues. If I break your spine with a baseball bat you're still gonna be unhappy even if you know that death is an illusion. What you realize is that suffering is worse than death. Chronic suffering from health problems is about as bad as life gets.

Oh okay. I get that when I get something material like a new phone or even sex that the happiness is short lived as my mind adapts to it. But I thought spiritual insights might be categorically different in their way on how they affect your happiness. That is honestly very disappointing to hear I bought into a fantasy. 

[bambi]

7 minutes ago, MsNobody said:

@bambi I've had the party and still deal with the sex one, cocaine also got me very sick at some point, sugar and my phone are other ones but more socially acceptable. Oh wait, are we competing who is more addicted 

I just love the desperate, neurotic and addicts, whenever I coach people who have all the labels from society like depression, addiction, anxiety, TDAH, OCD etc, the way I see is that they are feeling all of that because they are alive, they are ready and ripe for change. While the calm people just seat there in front of me like a sheep waiting for me to take lead on their lives and tell them what to do, they are calm cause they are asleep, the body is moving but there is no one there. Some people die before they die, those are the calm ones, the anxious people are ready to go and make the moves, to change the world.

The body is so wise, all that we feel, darkness, anxiety, addiction or whatever is basically our body communicating with us, if we know how to channel the energy and do the alchemy, this very darkness will be the raw material of our future life, we call it materia prima in portuguese, that is how we create, without friction there would be nothingness.

I consider the weirdos more normal than the conformists sheep that are all calm, like wtf look at the world burning, how can you be so calm and collected? The anxious ones are the ones that are most aware, they are anxious because they care. 

Sounds like we met at the wrong time of our lives!  lol

[MsNobody]

Just now, Jannes said:

Oh okay. I get that when I get something material like a new phone or even sex that the happiness is short lived as my mind adapts to it. But I thought spiritual insights might be categorically different in their way on how they affect your happiness. That is honestly very disappointing to hear I bought into a fantasy. 

Lol there it goes your desire for Truth.  

[What Am I]

13 minutes ago, MsNobody said:

Every time I do ayahuasca the aliens take my body to I don't know where to do I don't know what and my mind is always fighting saying it's just a vision. Last one I was on a spaceship and they were rummaging my body, like an operation of some sort inside an MRI like machine. Something that I've noticed is that they receive/heal me like I'm coming from war, there is a sense of urgency, is planet earth war? So many questions. 

JESUS lol, that's intense. Is this ayahuasca used in like a ceremonial context? With the vine and leaf? I have a good amount of experience with pharmahuasca, but I've never quite had that type of experience. Yours sounds more like the typical abduction encounter involving UFOs.

When you get into the concept of other intelligent and spiritually advanced life, one of the theories is that we're a prison planet of sorts where we're forcefully made to reincarnate in these inferior human bodies over and over again, using technology that transcends physicality as we know it to affect what would be considered a soul. Let's hope that's not the case.

Edited June 18 by What Am I

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, MsNobody said:

@Leo Gura can you please elaborate on that, almost doing crazy amounts of DMT to reach those levels. 

Every time I do ayahuasca the aliens take my body to I don't know where to do I don't know what and my mind is always fighting saying it's just a vision. Last one I was on a spaceship and they were rummaging my body, like an operation of some sort inside an MRI like machine. Something that I've noticed is that they receive/heal me like I'm coming from war, there is a sense of urgency, is planet earth war? So many questions. 

I have no experience of that. That's not how I experience higher consciousness at all.

[Leo Gura]

13 minutes ago, Jannes said:

Oh okay. I get that when I get something material like a new phone or even sex that the happiness is short lived as my mind adapts to it. But I thought spiritual insights might be categorically different in their way on how they affect your happiness. That is honestly very disappointing to hear I bought into a fantasy. 

If you want a categorical improvement in your happiness that cannot be achieved through any achievement, you just sit down now and be happy by being present.

Edited June 18 by Leo Gura

[Jannes]

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If you want a categorical improvement in your happiness that cannot be achieved through any achievement, you just sit down now and be happy by being present.

So it's either that or always about chasing the next bigger thing even with a life full of high values? 

 

Edited June 18 by Jannes

[Jannes]

31 minutes ago, MsNobody said:

Lol there it goes your desire for Truth.  

Have you never fallen for a spiritual trap?

[MsNobody]

@What Am I yes, they call it hoasca. Only the vine and the leaf. Mariri and Chacrona. I used to be part of this ayahuasca church but was removed cause I have a channel talking about psychedelics and I also take other psychedelics, they don’t allow it. Also they are based in Christianity so the people at the top didn’t really like my controversial way of being. 

I’ve had many experiences with entities, I call them aliens but not sure what it is. I also had an experience with 5meo where those beings were ruminating my body to find how conscious I was. I try not to get too attached to the visions, wish there was more research and more people talking about so we could make sense of it.

I do have this feeling that they feel bad for us being on earth and try to help. There was this one time the spaceship took me to this planet and I remember walking out of the ship and everything was so clean that I felt bad and dirty putting my feet in such a clean place. It was all metallic like high level tech and also some fluorescent colors, very futuristic. Mechanic but in a junglish way, it’s funny cause looking back now those experiences feel more real than any mundane day I’ve had in the past. 

[MsNobody]

@Jannes yeah currently recovering from my spiritual ego bubble of 8 years being burst lol 

I wouldn’t say this path has brought me happiness, my first Vipassana was a major awakening and I got out of there totally insane. Since then I’m becoming more and more insane, the spiritual path also brought me peace and acceptance of this insanity. So I guess self acceptance does bring some happiness. Would I do it again? Fuck yes  

 

[What Am I]

2 minutes ago, MsNobody said:

@What Am I yes, they call it hoasca. Only the vine and the leaf. Mariri and Chacrona. I used to be part of this ayahuasca church but was removed cause I have a channel talking about psychedelics and I also take other psychedelics, they don’t allow it. Also they are based in Christianity so the people at the top didn’t really like my controversial way of being. 

lol that's hilarious. Was the church Santo Daime? It's funny how the Christian aspect of these churches may be influencing their willingness to tolerate beliefs outside their norm. Nothing against Christianity, but that does seem to be common for them.

3 minutes ago, MsNobody said:

I’ve had many experiences with entities, I call them aliens but not sure what it is. I also had an experience with 5meo where those beings were ruminating my body to find how conscious I was. I try not to get too attached to the visions, wish there was more research and more people talking about so we could make sense of it.

I do have this feeling that they feel bad for us being on earth and try to help. There was this one time the spaceship took me to this planet and I remember walking out of the ship and everything was so clean that I felt bad and dirty putting my feet in such a clean place. It was all metallic like high level tech and also some fluorescent colors, very futuristic. Mechanic but in a junglish way, it’s funny cause looking back now those experiences feel more real than any mundane day I’ve had in the past. 

Damn, that is so cool. It's interesting that you'd have a visionary experience with 5meo, because that is definitely not typical. You must be highly prone to those types of states. I've clearly felt the presence and communications of entities many time during pharma, but my experiences were nowhere near as powerful as yours sound.

I think the line gets blurred when talking about aliens and multidimensional beings. They all seem to be beyond those limitations, and it would appear humans are the dunces who mostly can't take advantage of their innate capabilities. We're like majestic birds whose wings have atrophied, leaving us to walk in the mud our whole lives, knowing very little and getting most of it wrong. Quite mysterious what coarse of events led to this condition.

I've been into the UFO/alien/entities topic for a long time, so I love talking about it when I get the chance. There doesn't seem to be much interest or belief in it here, but I guess that's to be expected. For many people, spirituality probably sounded weird at first too.

[Cubbage]

@MsNobody I deeply resonated with this as a recovering ketamine addict. You hit the nail on the head mate!

2 hours ago, MsNobody said:

@bambi I've had the party and still deal with the sex one, cocaine also got me very sick at some point, sugar and my phone are other ones but more socially acceptable. Oh wait, are we competing who is more addicted 

I just love the desperate, neurotic and addicts, whenever I coach people who have all the labels from society like depression, addiction, anxiety, TDAH, OCD etc, the way I see is that they are feeling all of that because they are alive, they are ready and ripe for change. While the calm people just seat there in front of me like a sheep waiting for me to take lead on their lives and tell them what to do, they are calm cause they are asleep, the body is moving but there is no one there. Some people die before they die, those are the calm ones, the anxious people are ready to go and make the moves, to change the world.

The body is so wise, all that we feel, darkness, anxiety, addiction or whatever is basically our body communicating with us, if we know how to channel the energy and do the alchemy, this very darkness will be the raw material of our future life, we call it materia prima in portuguese, that is how we create, without friction there would be nothingness.

I consider the weirdos more normal than the conformists sheep that are all calm, like wtf look at the world burning, how can you be so calm and collected? The anxious ones are the ones that are most aware, they are anxious because they care. 

 

[hundreth]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I got plenty of healing out of psychedelics, but not of my physical condition.

Psychedelics are not a miracle cure for your bodily limitations. In fact, they add further stress to your body. You are purchasing consciousness at the cost of your body. Whether you think that purchase is worth it is up to you.

I agree with this, with a few caveats.

It matters HOW you consume psychedelics. Like anything else in life, the dose makes the poison. 5 MeO and Ayahuasca may both have the same active ingredient, but how they interact with your body is very different. This slow extended release of DMT coupled with purging and other traditions developed over hundreds of years and under the guidance of professionals (shamans, etc) changes this equation quite a bit - and can directly lead to physical healing in many instances.

Even with gentler doses and substances, they can be harmful. So it all really depends on the person, their physical constitution, their mental well being, the context, set and setting, who is administering, trip sitting, intention, etc. Psilocybin is generally very safe and not physically taxing, but one thing we can all agree on is that psychedelics are NOT a game. You do need to be very careful any time you consume these substances. 

[BlessedLion]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Psychedelics states are not permanent for the vast majority of people.

There is a tradeoff between level of consciousness vs permanence. The higher the state the less permanent it can be.

Do you think is also a “wear off” from psychedelics that make it harder to reach those states naturally. Kinda like wearing off your God receptors? Weakening your spiritual energy? Almost like a tax for getting it free?

[BlessedLion]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The reason I'm not more peaceful and happy is because any gains I made from spirituality have been counterbalanced by serious chronic health issues

Do you think the psychedelics caused this or it would’ve happened even if you never went down that route? 
 

Also, sorry to hear all this  that’s a bummer 

[BlessedLion]

6 hours ago, Jannes said:

Oh okay. I get that when I get something material like a new phone or even sex that the happiness is short lived as my mind adapts to it. But I thought spiritual insights might be categorically different in their way on how they affect your happiness. That is honestly very disappointing to hear I bought into a fantasy. 

IMO this depends on if you make the gains and insights naturally through hard work and discipline or you just see something on psychedelics you interpret as God. 
 

There is something much cleaner about refining your consciousness through natural and time tested practices like Yoga, Meditation, Fasting and Self Inquiry. It’s like you’re in that psychedelic state of God or Unconditional Love but it’s super stable, more realistic and grounded in your day to day. I’ve done about 15 silent meditation retreats(10 and 17 days), focused on the spiritual heart and had deeper awakenings there than with Psychedelics. Much more spiritual and solid. 
 

Do you know of any truly great embodied sage or master who claims they got there through psychedelics? No, and psychedelics have been around for just as long as meditation probably longer. 
 

They are great for opening people to spirituality, but eventually you gotta just trust life and grind at the practices to bring that state to your base level consciousness. 
 

i mean, the whole thing is consciousness anyway right? Life is the psychedelic trip? So why wouldn’t you trust that you increase that and ultimately trust it and surrender to it, just like you would with some acid? 
 

I’ll speak for myself and say that spirituality transformed completely my expereince of life, I never feel lonely, my life is full of passion and purpose, I’ve become a superior lover and freind, I live simply in nature and my love for life grows more and more each day. Do I still have traumas and weird mind stuff and insecurities? Fuck yeah. But before finding spirituality I was miserable, negative and a victim. Now I feel like God mode almost everyday. I’m beaming with vitality, masculine force and God realization. 
 

So no, it’s not a fantasy. Don’t be so afraid of spiritual bypassing that you bypass spirituality. It is magical, it is Love and you can transform your whole psyche and soul through it. Just be willing to fucking work for it. 

[Leo Gura]

47 minutes ago, BlessedLion said:

Do you think is also a “wear off” from psychedelics that make it harder to reach those states naturally. Kinda like wearing off your God receptors? Weakening your spiritual energy? Almost like a tax for getting it free?

No. In fact psychedelics make it easier in the sense that you know what to aim for.

It is harder in the sense that you might be less motivated to work as hard. But maybe you will be more motivated. That might be a personal difference.

37 minutes ago, BlessedLion said:

Do you think the psychedelics caused this or it would’ve happened even if you never went down that route? 

My health problems existed regardless of psychedelics. I have a genetic autoimmune disorder.

Edited June 19 by Leo Gura

[Peo]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It is harder in the sense that you might be less motivated to work as hard. But maybe you will be more motivated.

For me personally i get more motivated to work. Pshycedelics has show me how beautiful life is and that i should make the best life possible with the time i have. Life is a gift given by god to do wonders in the world. 

[Water by the River]

12 hours ago, MsNobody said:

Every time I do ayahuasca the aliens take my body to I don't know where to do I don't know what and my mind is always fighting saying it's just a vision. Last one I was on a spaceship and they were rummaging my body, like an operation of some sort inside an MRI like machine. Something that I've noticed is that they receive/heal me like I'm coming from war, there is a sense of urgency, is planet earth war? So many questions. 

Maybe you find the following interesting:

Hancock, Supernatural

Spangler, Subtle Worlds: An Explorer’s Field Notes

Ziewe, Jürgen. All books.

Strassman, Inner Paths to Outer Space: Journeys to Alien Worlds through Psychedelics and Other Spiritual Technologies

Vallee, Jaques. Passport to Magonia: From Folklore to Flying Saucers. And Vallee, Dimensions.

 

These beings & abduction-phenomena appear since prehistoric times, all cultures, all places, all centuries. Some have them with psychedelics, some without.