Perspectives we all need to hear but don’t actually work

[integral]

 

I feel there’s a category of perspectives that we should all be exposed to periodically but in practice don’t actually work. We should be exposed to them because they open up the doorway to construct awareness and deeper understanding but in practice it doesn’t work as a Way of life at least to the degree for which it’s being sold.

Advice: Instead of chasing a state like being a more confident person just give yourself that state right now because reality is pure imagination. You want to be happy in the future but instead just give yourself happiness right now, you’re imagining not giving yourself happiness and you could equally imagine giving yourself happiness.

It makes sense and it’s very important to hear this message, and in practice it’s impossible to do because your state is a combination of many factors not in your control.

Now you need to incorporate another law that you are not in control of anything the law of acceptance. That is a type of contradiction to the other advice that you can simply give yourself whatever state, where you can manifest any state at will.

I can see how this advice is very useful to the beginner who has never realized how much influence their stories about themselves and the world around them influence their feelings and how much control they actually have of their own stories. It’s a foundational teaching that everyone needs to hear but then in practice the waters are a little dirtier.

Often to change your default stories you need to have very strong powerful emotional experiences. So there is a part of it that you have to learn the theory and then you need experiences.

Edited June 17 by integral

[theleelajoker]

To add a perspective

In my experience, you need a "system". At least I do. 

A certain attitude. Awareness about your thoughts. A ability to direct your thoughts. The ability to feel and process emotions. An ability to dis-identify from your thoughts and emotions.  A method to calm your nervous system. Social stability (friends you can talk to or just spend time). Sufficient sleep patterns. A healthy nutrition. Hobbies just to have fun with. A method to "get out of your mind" (meditation). Awareness of your breath (at least to some degree). Etc etc..  And very important: The ability, curiosity and flexibility to expand and change your system anytime.  What worked yesterday probably won't work forever.

And last, an ability to accept in situations where you can't do or do not succeed in any of the things mentioned before.

I see many people saying "do this" and "do that" and you will succeed. 1) Everybody is different. 2) Focusing on one thing, one advice, one method, one area of life or one area of being human - never seen this work. Doesn't mean it can't work. Just have not seen it...

Edited June 17 by theleelajoker

[integral]

@theleelajoker that’s a good point so you need to incorporate many components together into a system and the theory it’s just one component. Things don’t work in isolation like raising your vibration technique will not work without a larger system and practice supporting it.

Edited June 17 by integral

[Ishanga]

I think the "Perspectives" work but on a very subtle level, I remember reading Tolle's "New Earth" which imo is all about the Ego, it did something for me most immediately, and once that happened you can't go back, that doesn't mean I have total control over the ego but there is an awareness of it now and that in and of itself is empowering..

Same with Acceptance, most suffering is a result of not Accepting, or resisting What Is, so its a process of sorts, one has to work on it, baby steps per say, just Accept small things happening then work on bigger things, Accept Your stuck in traffic, Accept someone has died or left You, with Acceptance it is not about this is what I want, its just Accepting, for me this is a stress stopper, how can stress or anger, bitterness, frustration, suffering happen when Your in Acceptance, so it helps on that level imo...

For sure we need systems to help us with all this stuff, that is why Yoga and other Eastern systems are here to do just that, we just have to apply it in our lives as we see fit and to what willingness we are going to allow it too function..

[Breakingthewall]

48 minutes ago, integral said:

You want to be happy in the future but instead just give yourself happiness right now, you’re imagining not giving yourself happiness and you could equally imagine giving yourself happiness.

That is the core of self help, which is absolutely false 😅. tolle sounds great but it doesn't work, or only works at a very superficial level. A human is an energetic pattern of real existence. If you are crucified, with the nails and all that and hanging from the cross and Eckhart Tolle appears and tells you that now etc... well, you wouldn't do anything to him since you are crucified, but you would think in killing him.  

The disharmonic vibration that occurs constantly in a person and that we call unhappiness occurs because your energy channels are folded in on themselves. You cannot consciously decide to stop producing that vibration, and everyone knows it because they have tried. You have to go very deep, be very brave, make a true inner and outer journey, to open the enigma that being human means.

[Davino]

8 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

If you are crucified, with the nails and all that and hanging from the cross and Eckhart Tolle appears and tells you that now etc... well, you wouldn't do anything to him since you are crucified, but you would think in killing him.  

You are getting creative with your examples lately

[Ishanga]

7 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

That is the core of self help, which is absolutely false 😅. tolle sounds great but it doesn't work, or only works at a very superficial level. A human is an energetic pattern of real existence. If you are crucified, with the nails and all that and hanging from the cross and Eckhart Tolle appears and tells you that now etc... well, you wouldn't do anything to him since you are crucified, but you would think in killing him.  

The disharmonic vibration that occurs constantly in a person and that we call unhappiness occurs because your energy channels are folded in on themselves. You cannot consciously decide to stop producing that vibration, and everyone knows it because they have tried. You have to go very deep, be very brave, make a true inner and outer journey, to open the enigma that being human means.

I would say Tolle and many others, are working on the level of Intellect, thoughts and thinking and understanding in that way, its basic stuff, and in this day and age more than likely is needed since ppl are addicted to thinking, thoughts, ideas and intellect, so its a starting point only, realizing You have this thing we call "Ego" and its mechanics and workings works on a basic level, then one can go further and work via the energy system and make real transformation... Tolle and others have no method for this, its mostly just talk and writing books and such, sooner or later is that is not working and one doesn't just have a realization (which can happen), then a method of sorts has to be incorporated...

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Davino said:

You are getting creative with your examples lately

Well, tolle's example was not correct. To be correct it would be: imagine that you are going to be crucified in 10 minutes. The Romans are already there preparing the cross, with the nails in their hands, the hammer, etc., the whole crowd shouting, you are there waiting for the centurion to arrive to give the order, and Ecart appears with his story of: let's see brother , are you being crucified NOW? not right? Well it's always NOW, so be happy, NOW everything is Perfect.

So maybe if the Romans would have a little compassion and before being crucified they would allow you to kill Tolle slowly, then maybe yes, you would be a little happier

[Breakingthewall]

8 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

I would say Tolle and many others, are working on the level of Intellect, thoughts and thinking and understanding in that way, its basic stuff, and in this day and age more than likely is needed since ppl are addicted to thinking, thoughts, ideas and intellect, so its a starting point only, realizing You have this thing we call "Ego" and its mechanics and workings works on a basic level, then one can go further and work via the energy system and make real transformation... Tolle and others have no method for this, its mostly just talk and writing books and such, sooner or later is that is not working and one doesn't just have a realization (which can happen), then a method of sorts has to be incorporated...

Agree, They are a necessary starting point. They show you the tip of the iceberg. The problem is that they tell you that they are showing you the entire iceberg and that is a lie, I don't know if they know it or not, probably not.

[Ishanga]

11 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Well, tolle's example was not correct. To be correct it would be: imagine that you are going to be crucified in 10 minutes. The Romans are already there preparing the cross, with the nails in their hands, the hammer, etc., the whole crowd shouting, you are there waiting for the centurion to arrive to give the order, and Ecart appears with his story of: let's see brother , are you being crucified NOW? not right? Well it's always NOW, so be happy, NOW everything is Perfect.

So maybe if the Romans would have a little compassion and before being crucified they would allow you to kill Tolle slowly, then maybe yes, you would be a little happier

I don't know if Tolle is this extreme, like I don't think he is saying by Living Now everything is perfect. Its just a tool to use, and it is the Reality that NOW is all there is, but of course as Human Beings we have great imaginations (false future in a way) and can suffer immensely what doesn't exist which is this so called "Future" which is really just your imagination running wild, but if You know You are going to be crucified then Yeah you will have fear and dread it, but most ppl today are not in this situation, they are not about to be tortured or killed, and they are still suffering what doesn't exist a great deal, for these types the teaching of the "NOW" is important and needed imo... 

[Breakingthewall]

3 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

today are not in this situation, they are not about to be tortured or killed, and they are still suffering what doesn't exist a great deal

Well, it depends on how you look. Most people today feel that they are trapped in a fragile physical body in decay, and that their inescapable future is decrepitude and then something unthinkable and absolutely terrifying called death, which they do not even want to think about, so the normal thing would be to be all the day crying desperately. So people are really very optimistic and strong and despite their horrible situation they keep going.

[Rafael Thundercat]

In Summary the Magic Question is : How to Think or Imagine you way Out of Misery?? There are Tricks, but I think we all had try many  tricks and we know they dont work at long run. So to avoid keep going in loops my question would be : How to definitively solve this Problem?? It is truly a problem??

[Rafael Thundercat]

@integral  And to add. This Manifesting people get tiredsome everyday 

[gettoefl]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Well, tolle's example was not correct. To be correct it would be: imagine that you are going to be crucified in 10 minutes. The Romans are already there preparing the cross, with the nails in their hands, the hammer, etc., the whole crowd shouting, you are there waiting for the centurion to arrive to give the order, and Ecart appears with his story of: let's see brother , are you being crucified NOW? not right? Well it's always NOW, so be happy, NOW everything is Perfect.

So maybe if the Romans would have a little compassion and before being crucified they would allow you to kill Tolle slowly, then maybe yes, you would be a little happier

good example however what you're missing is that jesus felt not one lick of pain when having those nails hammered through his veins ... he proved once and for all that i am not a body

that's the self help that people need and it's out there for everyone too though not in the bible or any mainstream religion

one recommendation to jumpstart one's quest at least for me is the book, the disappearance of the universe

Edited June 17 by gettoefl

[theleelajoker]

2 hours ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

In Summary the Magic Question is : How to Think or Imagine you way Out of Misery?? There are Tricks, but I think we all had try many  tricks and we know they dont work at long run. So to avoid keep going in loops my question would be : How to definitively solve this Problem?? It is truly a problem??

Bold emphasis in the quote by me. Yeah, is it truly a problem, or a way of entertaining oneself?

Of course, I am talking about self-created, psychological problems on a personal level. "Ego problems" one might say. I am not talking about "I experienced a plane crash I have no food no water no shelter I probably die soon" or worse problems on survival level (e.g. I do not want to live in Easters Ukraine right now).

Edited June 17 by theleelajoker

[theleelajoker]

4 hours ago, integral said:

(...)

Often to change your default stories you need to have very strong powerful emotional experiences. So there is a part of it that you have to learn the theory and then you need experiences.

The thing about emotions - I have not properly seen this when I read it the first time. I believe what you are saying is really super crucial. I think Dispenza called it "working through the emotional charge" of a (previous) experience. Personally, the combination of going through the emotions mentally (feeling it) + physically cleaning my body of it (yoga, sports, or fasten for several days) worked wonders.

Edited June 17 by theleelajoker

[Rafael Thundercat]

5 minutes ago, theleelajoker said:

Bold emphasis in the quote by me. Yeah, is it truly a problem, or a way of entertaining oneself?

Of course, I am talking about self-created, psychological problems on a personal level. "Ego problems" one might say. I am not talking about "I experienced a plane crash I have no food no water no shelter I probably die soon" or worse problems on survival level (e.g. I do not want to live in Easters Ukraine right now).

Ok, so in this case the point is : Ways to Diminish Self-Misery. What factors In my life are creating or cultivating self-misery? The answer in not just one or two things but a interconnected threads that create the misery, otherwise the misery would not even be present.

So the first step is becoming aware of the Causes, self created or not.

Second would be "How"

and thirt the Execution of the Alliviation actions. I say alliviation because I intuit that is impossible eliminate fully all misery, unless you decide to terminate and Die. 

[theleelajoker]

@Rafael Thundercat All in all, I agree.

When working with others (or myself), I learned to typically don't go to deep into the causes. Only as much as necessary to get in the moment. I see emotions as a reaction to events, creating resistance to what is.  I like to give them (me) space to question underlying assumptions:

1. Why do I believe things SHOULD be different then they are know?
2. How do I know that things CAN be different? Or is everybody always doing his/her best -->  I got [ANGRY/SAD/DEPRESSED/...] because I did not learn yet to not become [ANGRY/SAD/DEPRESSED/...] about [EVENT/SITUATION/PERSON]
3. Even if I assume that 2.  is not true --> how do I know, that result of getting [ANGRY/SAD/DEPRESSED/...] about [EVENT/SITUATION/PERSON is not the best possible situation for me? Maybe I need the feeling of [ANGRY/SAD/DEPRESSED/...] to get where I want to be in the future
4. Even if I think that 3. is not true - why do I believe that I have control about [FEELING] or [SITUATION]? Typically, we have no control but influence
5. If I have influence about [SITUATION], then just do it.
6. If I believe that my influence is non-existent or too marginal to effect the outcome - f*** the outcome.  Why do I care about the result instead of what I need to do in order to feel good (having clean conscience, doing everything that is in my power)? If I only care about the result, I will always be unhappy because reality cannot be controlled
7. If people don't believe in no. 6 --> pls show me how you control reality
8. Even if they believe that they can influence reality, and "impact" reality by just finding the right "method" --> how do you know, that you need to know NOW what and how do to? Maybe it just needs time and will come to you
9. Even if you find a "solution" --> how do you know that it will stay like that? Hermaklit says "only constant in life is change". Things will change. Then you have a "new problem", full circle.
10. You don't believe No. 9? OK, show me one thing that never changes....
11.  Etc etc.

Edited June 18 by theleelajoker