Stage orange over stage blue?

[Nivsch]

46 minutes ago, Yousif said:

I see your point, maybe that’s because stage orange is relatively a new emergence at a global scale and it’s not all encompassing like blue is, if we’re talking globally, stage orange is being heavily resisted by many blue countries and that collision with blue from below, green and higher from above may make it seem worse than it’s prior stages, orange is the current center of gravity, all that pressure is making it lash out and behave neurotically.

That can be an interesting reason yes.

Specifically I meant to an inner harmony that stage blue person may have more in comparison to the average orange person. I meant in the individual level.

Edited June 17 by Nivsch

[Leo Gura]

Don't overlook how batshit Blue can be. They are just great at hiding it behind their fake morals.

The upstanding Blue pastor is mouth raping children behind closed doors.

Edited June 17 by Leo Gura

[Yousif]

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

That can be an interesting reason yes.

Specifically I meant to an inner harmony that stage blue person may have more in comparison to the average orange person. I meant in the individual level.

Stage blue people are full of contradictions inside themselves, they’re at war within themselves, they’ve just taken the state of war as normal, 

 

I don’t mean to offend, but to an animal to kill or be killed is the state of affairs, and when you watch a documentary it’s completely normal to a lion pride to act like everything is cool.

[Rafael Thundercat]

When Stage Orange go to far to the Point of Infecting even a little child Mind

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7vdVaMu20t/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

[Nivsch]

@Yousif See for me it wasn't so much that way. My elementary school stage Blue years (secular school, secular family) when I still didn't have the "success" drive (thats why I see this as still stage Blue) I liked be with my family a lot and with my only one friend who was my neighbor we have met every single day.

I remeber at the end of elementary school when I was in a party of our 6th grade classes, and I felt so "behind" and unloved and jealous and from that moment I switched like 180 degress overnight from "familiy and one friend" person to "be the #1 in social relationships" and show all those people they were wrong about me, and my life just changed forever in one night. This was like an Orange awakening on steroids.

Problems? Yes. But I would not call it inner contradictions. I had significant social difficulties and insecures in school yes. But in the other hand I wasn't anxious, in contrary to orange and especially more green years from my mid 20s in which I felt more alone and individual. Today though I feel much less alone and in a better place. I guess every person has a different stage Blue story. This is mine.

Edited June 18 by Nivsch

[Danioover9000]

@Leo Gura

On 2024-06-16 at 5:21 PM, Leo Gura said:

It is a function of cognitive complexity and perspective-taking. Blue is less cognitively complex and less able to take more perspectives. Blue is really locked into an absolutist worldview while Orange can handle multiplicity of perspectives. That's what makes it more advanced.

It takes some sophisticated thinking to see that a government should not merely favor your religion, but allow for everyone to worship equally according to their needs.

Blue is fundamentalist religion and theocracy.

Orange is scientific method and democracy.

Science is more advanced than fundamentalist religion.

Orange realizes that you don't need dogma to be moral. You can be moral through secular humanist values. In fact, it is impossible to be truly moral via dogma.

   Yes, and this is why most nationalists are less developed than stage greens and stage oranges.

[Yimpa]

On 6/17/2024 at 2:25 PM, Leo Gura said:

Don't overlook how batshit Blue can be. They are just great at hiding it behind their fake morals.

The upstanding Blue pastor is mouth raping children behind closed doors.

 

[Leo Gura]

@Yimpa I know this shit too well.

It starts being too predictable at some point.

Edited June 20 by Leo Gura

[zazen]

Blue is dogmatic about the divine, with a distorted ego-centric connection to it, they conceptually tribalize around the transcendental and interpret it with rigid literalism. Godly selection.

Orange is dismissive of the divine, with a soulless scientific secularism, which manifests a Darwinian doctrine that hardens the heart into a nihilistic zero sum game of survival of the fittest. Natural selection.

Green is disembodied with the divine, they unground themselves in lofty and utopian ideals that reality can’t accommodate, they equalise inequalities in unjust ways. Social selection.

 

Stage Orange often receives more criticism for the damage it causes because it excels at accumulating power and developing influential tools. Their capability amplifies their shadow, making their ethical shortcomings and their impacts more visible on a global scale. Stage Blue’s shadow is less visible not because it’s inherently less damaging, but because it lacks the same level of development and leverage to affect the world.

Blue’s shadow is potentially just as corpse filled as Orange's, they just haven't been afforded the platforms to project that ugliness on a grander scale yet - although we do see the shadow elements of blue hinged onto the power that orange has built through evangelical America ie Neocons or the messianic ultra Zionists. Modern tools of power built off dynamism, wielded by ancient dogma - different latitudes, same attitude.

Both stages can produce individuals who commit unethical acts, but for different reasons. Stage Blue, because their morality is exclusionary. Stage Orange, because of disconnection to the soul (depth) in pursuit of the material (surface).

Stage blues dogmatism stifles its ability to develop and get their hands on power. Stage oranges dynamism accelerates power accumulation and the development of tools that have global impact.

Stage blue has a sense of morality that can balance and check power, but only within its own rigid framework that excludes those who aren’t in it and are deemed sinful.

Stage orange can lack morality in pursuit of the material or be morally relativistic to justify the unjustifiable. Its disconnect from the soul manifests in its shadow when the powerful tools it gets its hands on are used to interfere and intervene in world affairs in unethical ways rather than interact and integrate with others on the world stage.

A video of stage blue critiquing stage orange. Diagnosis requires critique, solutions require consciousness - so while he may diagnose the problem, he lacks the solution.

Any self-obsessed perspective which sees itself as separate from the whole is going to birth horrors into the world. Stage blue’s exclusionary morality see’s itself separate from the whole in the context of caste colour and creed. Stage orange’s materialism and rationality severs us from the whole - empiricism tries to quantify qualities that are beyond measurement. They dismiss the existence of the divine simply because they can’t measure it.

Not sure what’s worse, being soulless or having a distorted ego-centric connection to the soul. Stage orange cuts ties to the cosmic life source , stage blue instrumentalizes it to reinforce its tribal identities as the One True Path while demonising all other routes as sin-stained. Blue is spiritually bloated while Orange is a spiritual vacuum.

Edited June 20 by zazen

[Husseinisdoingfine]

Donald Trump's "Spiritual Advisor" admits to sexually abusing a twelve year old boy.

 

[Danioover9000]

@Husseinisdoingfine

3 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Donald Trump's "Spiritual Advisor" admits to sexually abusing a twelve year old boy.

 

   Therefore I am justified in hating Donald Trump?

[Husseinisdoingfine]

4 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

 

 Therefore I am justified in hating Donald Trump?

You're not justified in hating anyone as its a lower consciousness emotion with a lower vibration.

[Danioover9000]

@Husseinisdoingfine

Just now, Husseinisdoingfine said:

You're not justified in hating anyone as its a lower consciousness emotion with a lower vibration.

   Then I am not justified in hating Donald Trump. See?

[Nivsch]

@zazen You put it very interestingly and so I don't want to contradict but to add from myself to what you wrote.

The mind tends to see lower stages than him in a negativity bias, but a careful look and a direct interaction with a person will show you also heartwarming things any one of those stages has in them too, with a direct connection to god/infinite (in the way my intuition grasps it).

The difference is that the lower stages aren't aware to their high intelligence though it exists all the time, but they have less degrees of freedom in their motion and in how they can interact with it, in analogue to the term in physics and mathematics. This is like blue can move in one dimension, orange in two and etc if to put it intuitively. 

Also those distilled versions are rarely shown in reality (the midway is the common one). My physics teacher in high school ones said that "with the physics, the kids learn to be human beings" and in a sense this is true, the orange thinking makes you a restrained person that takes you away from violence and make you more respectful. He like casted blue and orange together into one integrated thing, what isn't uncommon to see if the development goes in a transcend and include healthy way.

Edited June 20 by Nivsch

[Danioover9000]

@zazen

19 hours ago, zazen said:

Blue is dogmatic about the divine, with a distorted ego-centric connection to it, they conceptually tribalize around the transcendental and interpret it with rigid literalism. Godly selection.

Orange is dismissive of the divine, with a soulless scientific secularism, which manifests a Darwinian doctrine that hardens the heart into a nihilistic zero sum game of survival of the fittest. Natural selection.

Green is disembodied with the divine, they unground themselves in lofty and utopian ideals that reality can’t accommodate, they equalise inequalities in unjust ways. Social selection.

 

Stage Orange often receives more criticism for the damage it causes because it excels at accumulating power and developing influential tools. Their capability amplifies their shadow, making their ethical shortcomings and their impacts more visible on a global scale. Stage Blue’s shadow is less visible not because it’s inherently less damaging, but because it lacks the same level of development and leverage to affect the world.

Blue’s shadow is potentially just as corpse filled as Orange's, they just haven't been afforded the platforms to project that ugliness on a grander scale yet - although we do see the shadow elements of blue hinged onto the power that orange has built through evangelical America ie Neocons or the messianic ultra Zionists. Modern tools of power built off dynamism, wielded by ancient dogma - different latitudes, same attitude.

Both stages can produce individuals who commit unethical acts, but for different reasons. Stage Blue, because their morality is exclusionary. Stage Orange, because of disconnection to the soul (depth) in pursuit of the material (surface).

Stage blues dogmatism stifles its ability to develop and get their hands on power. Stage oranges dynamism accelerates power accumulation and the development of tools that have global impact.

Stage blue has a sense of morality that can balance and check power, but only within its own rigid framework that excludes those who aren’t in it and are deemed sinful.

Stage orange can lack morality in pursuit of the material or be morally relativistic to justify the unjustifiable. Its disconnect from the soul manifests in its shadow when the powerful tools it gets its hands on are used to interfere and intervene in world affairs in unethical ways rather than interact and integrate with others on the world stage.

A video of stage blue critiquing stage orange. Diagnosis requires critique, solutions require consciousness - so while he may diagnose the problem, he lacks the solution.

Any self-obsessed perspective which sees itself as separate from the whole is going to birth horrors into the world. Stage blue’s exclusionary morality see’s itself separate from the whole in the context of caste colour and creed. Stage orange’s materialism and rationality severs us from the whole - empiricism tries to quantify qualities that are beyond measurement. They dismiss the existence of the divine simply because they can’t measure it.

Not sure what’s worse, being soulless or having a distorted ego-centric connection to the soul. Stage orange cuts ties to the cosmic life source , stage blue instrumentalizes it to reinforce its tribal identities as the One True Path while demonising all other routes as sin-stained. Blue is spiritually bloated while Orange is a spiritual vacuum.

   Nice takes. Yes excess stage blue ultimately tends to be hyper exclusivity and gate keeping, with some religious fundamentalism and dogmatism, while the excess of stage orange is more inflated to hyper individualism, think libertarianism like that, with scientific and materialist dogma instead of religious one.

   Albeit I do feel like we probably need an few more modals along side Spiral Dynamics. For example what do we do when we factor in sociopathy or psychopathy and narcissism into the modal? What if in a stage blue value set, we see a sociopath/psychopath/narcissist in that excess range of blue? What does a sociopath/psychopath look like when at the limits of stage orange? Feels like the dark triad or some other psychological modal maybe needed to account for those with the dark traits. Also some people may describe it as 3: Machiavellianism(IMO fancy word for manipulation/exploitation, specifically for social and power gain, just think it as manipulation), narcissism, and sociopathy(and psychopathy too), but even some would say the dark quad or the dark five if you factor in sadism(pleasure gained from inflicting suffering) and masochism(pleasure gained by pain received). It ends up overall enriching the descriptions of the range of excess of each stage if we do factor into some personality or psychological traits that could also contribute to that excess, which also ultimately leads into that SD transformational dilemma.

[Rafael Thundercat]

The problem is that stage blue actors in the extremes put in risk all the others who dont alling with their dogmas. But Stage Orange if go unchecked and to the extremes put in risk the whole planet. We cant extract unrestrainly and have no consequences. We cant have millions of Tates for example  and luckly we dont have, but the ideia that we can keep progressing without integration of the best of Green is utopic. When I say green I am speaking about people who understood that the planet is not only a thing for our consumption but a living organism or like they like to call Mother Earth. The Orange in the most lower shadow aspect is just Hustle, Extract and make some bling blings, Is a juvenile vision of what is Caring for the planet. 

[Danioover9000]

@Rafael Thundercat

17 hours ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

The problem is that stage blue actors in the extremes put in risk all the others who dont alling with their dogmas. But Stage Orange if go unchecked and to the extremes put in risk the whole planet. We cant extract unrestrainly and have no consequences. We cant have millions of Tates for example  and luckly we dont have, but the ideia that we can keep progressing without integration of the best of Green is utopic. When I say green I am speaking about people who understood that the planet is not only a thing for our consumption but a living organism or like they like to call Mother Earth. The Orange in the most lower shadow aspect is just Hustle, Extract and make some bling blings, Is a juvenile vision of what is Caring for the planet. 

   Andrew Tate isn't hardcore stage orange, he's hardcore stage red/blue opportunist. Elon Musk, Bill Gates, Jeff Bazos, most body building people, hardcore materialists and scientists are better examples of stage orange excess, even predatory capitalism and neoliberalism is a better example. Andrew Tate is not excess stage orange, he's aping stage orange values but is actually stage red/blue.

   Like a typical wall street stock guy isn't going to be like Andrew Tate, into sex trafficking and tax evasion. Such people of course have better ways to evade tax, but a hardcore wolf of wall street guy like Leonardo DiCaprio, or the guy the actor was representing, won't be like Andrew Tate in terms of sex trafficking(if true) or bad methods of tax evasion and gambling(if true). 

[Rafael Thundercat]

Ken Wilberly Clinton explains a lot here

 

[Danioover9000]

@Rafael Thundercat

50 minutes ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

Ken Wilberly Clinton explains a lot here

 

   Wait, that's Ken Wilbur??? Been a while since I last saw him with the bald Zen look, now he's wearing a wig?😄

[Rafael Thundercat]

On 17/06/2024 at 8:25 PM, Leo Gura said:

Don't overlook how batshit Blue can be. They are just great at hiding it behind their fake morals.

The upstanding Blue pastor is mouth raping children behind closed doors.

In Brasil a lot.