5-MeO-DMT Onset

[Breakingthewall]

It is normal that it is scary because if the dose is enough, the ego disappears. This is a very violent movement. If the ego really disappears, reality is a bottomless hole. It's like if instead of your head with its thoughts you had an infinite hole, and that bottomless hole is the reality. Any slightest contraction, subjection, identification, distortion, thought, structure, have disappeared. this is extremely strange and does not occur easily even with high doses, it is a total breakout. Any breakup needs a blow, and blows are scary, because there is resistance. 

[Thought Art]

@shree I matured 

[shree]

1 hour ago, Thought Art said:

@shree I matured 

I just grew old

[What Am I]

11 hours ago, OBEler said:

Ah good idea. I have an e juice vape pen ready to go. How long were your sessions?

I never really had a breakthrough so I am afraid that if I vape and vape there is one hit where I somehow turn a switch on and my consciousness is exploding or something and I am in a point of no return.

At least one time I had maybe a little breakthrough. I had no body sensations and was nested in an empty black white transparent space which was illuminated by light a bit. It felt a bit as if I was zooming away from my body and I felt a big distance to myself. But I was still me.and my thoughts were normal but quiet. It was manageable.

The sessions would get up to three hours long. They were insane journeys through all the different stages of a 5meo trip. It really helped map what was possible at different levels.

You're correct that there's a threshold where the trip will drastically change. From the description of your semi-breakthrough, it sounds like you got to that point. If you finesse your use of the vape, you can kind of keep yourself in that zone where the intensity spikes. From there, it'll be all about finding the courage to go further.

What really makes or breaks my trips is my use of spiritual practice before and during the experience (and ideally after). If I just go into it haphazardly, I'll be thrown around chaotically just like anyone else. But if my mind is relatively quiet, sense of self tamed, attention on the present moment, and the sensation of bodily energy at the forefront, my trip will crystalize into what it's supposed to be at that level of consciousness. There's a sort of predefined direction that the spiritual human experience is naturally supposed to head towards. If you can diminish the parts of you that fight against that, everything clicks into place and it's far less scary.

[shree]

I will give higher doses a try tomorrow.

 

As I remember, I had no hard onset on 17-20mg.

I normally get that shit on 5-12mg.

 

 

I was searching for the lowest effective dose after I gathered some experience with the chem.

That is why I went lower on the first place.

[shree]

On 12/06/2024 at 5:44 PM, What Am I said:

Subcutaneous injection would be a good solution if you're willing to take a leap like that. I don't think individual bioavailability would be a factor for that ROA.

 

Thanks for the tip but I am not a fan of this approach. 

It scares me more than being stuck in this horrific onset. 

Edited June 14 by shree

[shree]

On 12/06/2024 at 7:55 PM, Leo Gura said:

That kind of doubt opens the door to bad trips.

Yes, this crossed my mind a several times. I guess I was lucky until now.

[shree]

16 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

It is normal that it is scary because if the dose is enough, the ego disappears. This is a very violent movement. If the ego really disappears, reality is a bottomless hole. It's like if instead of your head with its thoughts you had an infinite hole, and that bottomless hole is the reality. Any slightest contraction, subjection, identification, distortion, thought, structure, have disappeared. this is extremely strange and does not occur easily even with high doses, it is a total breakout. Any breakup needs a blow, and blows are scary, because there is resistance. 

Do you have same scary come-up on higher doses or just when you go low? 

[Thought Art]

5meodmt is spooky ooky

[What Am I]

11 hours ago, shree said:

Thanks for the tip but I am not a fan of this approach. 

It scares me more than being stuck in this horrific onset. 

Fair enough, that's definitely the usual and understandable opinion when it comes to injection.

[Breakingthewall]

Today I did 2 breakthroughs vaping 20 mg, one hour apart. Let's see, what is scary is the moment in which reality is a dead void, the great black. It's a shitty feeling, but you have to open yourself to it, then it happens. At a given moment, without having realized how, you are the infinite, total. Your being is open, the resistance is zero. It is something wonderful, but for me, it does not bring any insight. Lower doses do bring important insights into my life, but the total dose is pure joy of total existence. Total openenss, no limits. There is nothing to know or understand, just existence existing, in it's purest form, or no form 

[What Am I]

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Today I did 2 breakthroughs vaping 20 mg

Jeez! You don't mess around.

6 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Let's see, what is scary is the moment in which reality is a dead void, the great black. It's a shitty feeling, but you have to open yourself to it, then it happens.

That's interesting that the experience for you goes to something like a black void. I've been learning about this stuff for a long time, and it seems to me there's two basic ways for a state like nirvikalpa samadhi to manifest. An infinite black void like what you're describing, and an infinite white void that includes the sensation of immeasurable energy (closer to what I've experienced). Or perhaps you have the energetic sensation as well?

I've read a bunch of highly advanced meditation practitioners' reports describing one or the other, but not so much any individual describing both. I wonder what's going on there.

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, What Am I said:

Jeez! You don't mess around.

That's interesting that the experience for you goes to something like a black void. I've been learning about this stuff for a long time, and it seems to me there's two basic ways for a state like nirvikalpa samadhi to manifest. An infinite black void like what you're describing, and an infinite white void that includes the sensation of immeasurable energy (closer to what I've experienced). Or perhaps you have the energetic sensation as well?

I've read a bunch of highly advanced meditation practitioners' reports describing one or the other, but not so much any individual describing both. I wonder what's going on there.

My experience use to be more or less this: vaping and I notice that it is enough to break through, then reality disintegrates, the superficial layer of this experience disintegrates and what remains is an absolutely black and absolutely dead void. The observer, who is still there, although silent and with barely any human identity, feels horror. Therefore, there is still an ego that judges. After a few moments, if it's enough (not always)the void opens. It is no longer empty, but it is as if the observer has merged with the void, so the observer perceives itself as unlimited. there are no borders.

The physical and energetic relaxation is complete, there are no energetic knots left, everything is absolutely unlimited. That absence of limits perceives itself as total potential, the source of existence. complete joy of existence without barriers.

There is nothing to learn in a mental level about that. I'm creating the reality, etc ....zero idea about that, it's just the reality perceiving itself as unlimited, and clearly perceiving itself as "the reality", the whole thing. That is the point. 

[What Am I]

11 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

My experience use to be more or less this: vaping and I notice that it is enough to break through, then reality disintegrates, the superficial layer of this experience disintegrates and what remains is an absolutely black and absolutely dead void. The observer, who is still there, although silent and with barely any human identity, feels horror. Therefore, there is still an ego that judges. After a few moments, if it's enough (not always)the void opens. It is no longer empty, but it is as if the observer has merged with the void, so the observer perceives itself as unlimited. there are no borders.

The physical and energetic relaxation is complete, there are no energetic knots left, everything is absolutely unlimited. That absence of limits perceives itself as total potential, the source of existence. complete joy of existence without barriers.

There is nothing to learn in a mental level about that. I'm creating the reality, etc ....zero idea about that, it's just the reality perceiving itself as unlimited, and clearly perceiving itself as "the reality", the whole thing. That is the point. 

Beautiful, thanks man.

That certainly sounds in line with what you'd expect. Though I can't help but wonder why there's seemingly two separate types of ultimate experience.

I know I talk about kundalini a lot, and it's probably getting annoying at this point, but it simply can't be avoided and I can't stop myself lol. I wonder if it has something to do with the varying content of peoples' reports. For me, it's clearly the engine behind all my spiritual experiences. It wasn't always so obvious, but a lot of 5meo use mixed with intentional energetic practice blasted it open and made it apparent, even when sober.

All this is to make the humble suggestion that it could be an area worth looking more into for anyone who hasn't previously dove in. I always find it surprising that others aren't constantly talking about it, considering it's been the centerpiece of my experience.

This excerpt from "Living with Kundalini" by Gopi Krishna is a lot closer to my breakthrough experience, though I admit it's not identical.

 

Suddenly, with a roar like that of a waterfall, I felt a stream of liquid light entering my brain through the spinal cord. Entirely unprepared for such a development, I was completely taken by surprise, but regaining self-control instantaneously, I remained sitting in the same posture, keeping my mind on the point of concentration. The illumination grew brighter and brighter, the roaring louder. I experienced a rocking sensation and then felt myself slipping out of my body, entirely enveloped in a halo of light.

It is impossible to describe the experience accurately. I felt the point of consciousness that was myself growing wider, surrounded by waves of light. It grew wider and wider, spreading outward while the body, normally the immediate object of its perception, appeared to have receded into the distance until I became entirely unconscious of it. I was now all consciousness, without any outline, without any idea of a corporeal appendage, without any feeling or sensation coming from the senses, immersed in a sea of light simultaneously conscious and aware of every point, spread out, as it were, in all directions without any barrier or material obstruction.

I was no longer myself, or to be more accurate, no longer as I knew myself to be, a small point of awareness confined in a body, but instead was a vast circle of consciousness in which the body was but a point, bathed in light and in a state of exaltation and happiness impossible to describe.

[Breakingthewall]

10 hours ago, What Am I said:

know I talk about kundalini a lot, and it's probably getting annoying at this point

The energy issue is everything. What happens is that it sounds a lot like woo woo and people feel more comfortable treading on familiar ground: the mind. Here, when someone tells you that they have "awaken", they will say that they have realized this, and that....they don't realize that they are still playing in the school yard, they haven't gone out into the streets. .

The mind limits, true awakening is the breaking of limits, as that guy in the text you quoted explains.

[What Am I]

5 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

The energy issue is everything. What happens is that it sounds a lot like woo woo and people feel more comfortable treading on familiar ground: the mind. Here, when someone tells you that they have "awaken", they will say that they have realized this, and that....they don't realize that they are still playing in the school yard, they haven't gone out into the streets. .

The mind limits, true awakening is the breaking of limits, as that guy in the text you quoted explains.

Exactly, good observation. It's so easy to simply hang out in a conceptual framework for all this stuff. It's unfortunate too, because diving into the experiential reality and making it your sole focus, especially where the energetic aspect is concerned, is so much more fun and liberating. Not to mention being essential for progress.

[Breakingthewall]

5 hours ago, What Am I said:

Exactly, good observation. It's so easy to simply hang out in a conceptual framework for all this stuff. It's unfortunate too, because diving into the experiential reality and making it your sole focus, especially where the energetic aspect is concerned, is so much more fun and liberating. Not to mention being essential for progress.

Overall we must realize something obvious: the mind, "understand", is within reality, it cannot encompass it. Here everyone talks about infinity, and they want to understand it with their mind, which is one of the infinite possibilities of infinity, that is, absolutely nothing. then, all going around in circles like rats on their wheel, in their tiny mind, wanting to fit into it nothing less than infinity.

The only understanding of the infinite that one can have is what it is, what its substance is, and that understanding is not mental, it is the infinite perceiving itself as existence. To do this you have to eliminate any barriers, and the barriers are energetic, even if they take the appearance of ideas. Nobody understands it and they debate like philosophers about minutiae that don't even exist.

[What Am I]

40 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Overall we must realize something obvious: the mind, "understand", is within reality, it cannot encompass it. Here everyone talks about infinity, and they want to understand it with their mind, which is one of the infinite possibilities of infinity, that is, absolutely nothing. then, all going around in circles like rats on their wheel, in their tiny mind, wanting to fit into it nothing less than infinity.

The only understanding of the infinite that one can have is what it is, what its substance is, and that understanding is not mental, it is the infinite perceiving itself as existence. To do this you have to eliminate any barriers, and the barriers are energetic, even if they take the appearance of ideas. Nobody understands it and they debate like philosophers about minutiae that don't even exist.

lol yes, I'm sure many have noticed there's a lot of that going on here. I guess one positive is that it keeps the forum active, which can draw in all kinds of interesting characters who may have something to share.

Edited June 15 by What Am I

[Davino]

On 14/6/2024 at 10:33 PM, Breakingthewall said:

Today I did 2 breakthroughs vaping 20 mg, one hour apart. Let's see, what is scary is the moment in which reality is a dead void, the great black. It's a shitty feeling, but you have to open yourself to it, then it happens. At a given moment, without having realized how, you are the infinite, total. Your being is open, the resistance is zero. It is something wonderful, but for me, it does not bring any insight. Lower doses do bring important insights into my life, but the total dose is pure joy of total existence. Total openenss, no limits. There is nothing to know or understand, just existence existing, in it's purest form, or no form 

That sounds great to me

Keep with that

It may take years to breakthrough beyond, but there is no end to beyond, so just enjoy the unfolding. This is what I'm trying to do lately

[Davino]

23 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Overall we must realize something obvious: the mind, "understand", is within reality, it cannot encompass it. Here everyone talks about infinity, and they want to understand it with their mind, which is one of the infinite possibilities of infinity, that is, absolutely nothing.

Mind is Infinity

Definetely not talking about the human mind, that's the misunderstanding.

If you want to understand the ocean, you can't hold it with a bucket