Latest blog post about child prodigies.

[Water by the River]

2 hours ago, bambi said:

I think Leos used up all his spirtuality insights a few years ago. Now its just limtiing beliefs, negativity, theres nothing hopeful positive, novel or inspiring about his work, and its been like this for some time now.

I wonder how the next 5-10 years turn out for him, it cannot be simply more of the same, it cannot be healthy to have such a deep disdain for life and humanity, which is equivalent for disdain for your self

 

"Ken Wilber: The downside comes with people that only use psychedelics or drugs and I found that over the years they just become mean.

It's somehow just kind of closes them down it's like you keep doing it and you keep doing it you keep doing it it doesn't quite cause the transformation.

It can cause a peak experience but generally not a transformative experience and some people like David Deida will say that in order for altered changes of state to contribute to transformation a permanent transformation it has to be basically endogenous and not a exogenous it has to be has your own source

People who do that (Psychedelics) the people that do use both (Meditation and Psychedelics) and use it as a sacrament i think an enormous bit out of it."

From one year ago:

How healthy/smart is disdain for humanity (instead of compassion) if ones holarchic being consists of mainly being human? Did God only create 2-legged-untruthful-bullshit with lacking potential on this planet or what?

How about wisdom/awakening AND compassion&love? Integrating higher and lower elements of ones own holarchical being? Not blaming the acorn (humans) that they are not an oak (alien) yet?

Leo, did you ever read Wilbers descriptions of healthy growth (transcend & include ones humanity) and unhealthy growth (disassociate & not integrate (aka hate) ones humanity)? A whole book written by Wilber on the unhealthy growth/choices at third tier: Wilber, The Religion of Tomorrow. Most possible f***-ups of third tier in one book. Ever read it?

Starting to notice that any audience/beings tend to respons to healthy messages? And not to Alien-escapism? Why is that? Some safety mechanism from God almighty?

 

Selling basic healthy growth/transcendence mechanisms by the River

 

Edited June 15 by Water by the River

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, bambi said:

I think Leos used up all his spirtuality insights a few years ago. Now its just limtiing beliefs, negativity, theres nothing hopeful positive, novel or inspiring about his work, and its been like this for some time now.

I wonder how the next 5-10 years turn out for him, it cannot be simply more of the same, it cannot be healthy to have such a deep disdain for life and humanity, which is equivalent for disdain for your self

What is happening to him is simple and obvious: he has focused completely on the mental. has forgotten the energetic facet, the most important. he despises humanity because he only grasps its stupidity on a mental level, which is the case, but he does not grasp the enormous human vital drive. it does not realize humanity as a living evolutionary organism of infinite intelligence. It is disconnected from the source. In short, he has become an intellectual

[questionreality]

2 hours ago, BlessedLion said:

A spiritual teacher definitely has a moral obligation to stay in integrity and anyone using their power for sex is a fraud in my point of view. True non duality is recognizing everyone is you and you want to act from the highest Love. Ramana Maharishi for example would never let himself be given food before others or any special treatment in his ashram

You don't know weather he used his power or not. Based from rumors (and there is no proof), it was consensual between two parties. So far, there have not been any reports of him abusing the women he sleeps with, etc.

There is a difference between raping someone, sleeping with them and abusing them, and just having a consensual intercourse.

A lot of the girls that attend his retreat are the so called "free hippies", who don't mind having multiple partners, hooking up, etc if connection is there. They are more liberal when it comes to sex in general - opposite of religious people. 

Given these factors, the chances of this happening are extremely huge.

I think you have a false image and expectations of non-dual teachers. They are not some saints, or monks, nor they are obligated to be. They are human just like you are - they sleep, eat, shit, and fuck. 

No amount of spirituality can override biology - that is as long as your testosterone /libido is still at the normal levels 

Edited June 15 by questionreality

[BlessedLion]

2 hours ago, bambi said:

I think Leos used up all his spirtuality insights a few years ago. Now its just limtiing beliefs, negativity, theres nothing hopeful positive, novel or inspiring about his work, and its been like this for some time now.

I wonder how the next 5-10 years turn out for him, it cannot be simply more of the same, it cannot be healthy to have such a deep disdain for life and humanity, which is equivalent for disdain for your self

The latest videos are a bit more positive. But this whole nihilistic rat consciousness thing with 0 explanation of it or an alternative is a bit wack. 
 

that said I think he still has deep insights and wisdom to share 

[BlessedLion]

1 hour ago, Water by the River said:

, The Religion of the Future.

Religion of Tomorrow* 

 

Honestly I think psychedelics are good for one thing; inspiring newbies to get started. From there it’s on you to grow and develop your consciousness. I’m so glad I found schools outside of Leo that are stopped in tradition and embodiment (Hridaya, Cheng Hsin) so I can take what Leo says with a grain of salt. The “psychedelic path” is an endless road to nowhere 

[BlessedLion]

9 minutes ago, questionreality said:

You don't know weather he used his power or not. Based from rumors (and there is no proof), it was consensual between two parties. So far, there have not been any reports of him abusing the women he sleeps with, etc.

There is a difference between raping someone, sleeping with them and abusing them, and just having a consensual intercourse.

A lot of the girls that attend his retreat are the so called "free hippies", who don't mind having multiple partners, hooking up, etc if connection is there. They are more liberal when it comes to sex in general - opposite of religious people. 

Given these factors, the chances of this happening are extremely huge.

I think you have a false image and expectations of non-dual teachers. They are not some saints, or monks, nor they are obligated to be. They are human just like you are - they sleep, eat, shit, and fuck. 

No amount of spirituality can override biology - that is as long as your testosterone /libido is still at the normal levels 

What I’m saying is being a spiritual teacher is a huge responsibility. People shouldn’t take it up unless they are ready to take on that role. And him cheating on his wife is definitely not cool and out of integrity. Probably turned off some of his students completely from spirituality doing them a huge disservice. If he was just a normal dude plumber who cheated, fine, but he’s not, he’s in a position where many peoples “souls” are relying on him to lead them to God and awakening and he can’t let his dick control him. True teachers know this and he would’ve been wise to just get a divorce if he wanted to sleep with other people 

[Water by the River]

28 minutes ago, BlessedLion said:

Religion of Tomorrow* 

 

thanks, corrected it.

[Water by the River]

26 minutes ago, BlessedLion said:

What I’m saying is being a spiritual teacher is a huge responsibility. People shouldn’t take it up unless they are ready to take on that role. And him cheating on his wife is definitely not cool and out of integrity.

Yup.

Something like this, put on the homepage of the teacher:

https://www.spiritual-integrity.org/

https://www.spiritual-integrity.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Association-for-Spiritual-Integrity-Code-of-Ethics-for-Individuals-Jan-25-2024.pdf

 

And:

https://integral-options.blogspot.com/2011/02/diane-musho-hamilton-simply-uncool.html

"

Diane Musho Hamilton - Simply Uncool

. . . . The heated complaints elicit an outcry of responses calling for the development of standards, guidelines, sound and consistent ethical policies which can provide oversight and accountability to the teachers in the Zen world. This is so that teachers and students everywhere are held accountable to the impacts that their decisions and behavior have on the communities in which they practice.

* * * * *

These guidelines, written policies, and legal contracts provide the basis for durable structures that can outlast the unruly behaviors and destructive tendencies of the humans who inevitably pass through them. And who among us hasn’t contributed to some mayhem among our friends?

Formulating these policies is natural, necessary, and even admirable, when you realize that we are capable of holding each other to higher standards of conduct.

* * * * *

In the meantime, however, while we are learning and while these policies are developed and implemented, I would like to introduce a handy word that may help guide you in your decisions until the ground rules are put on paper. The word that I want to offer to you in your search for integrity is simply “Uncool.”

“Is this cool or uncool?”

* * * * *

Sleeping around. Students bring a tremendous amount of vulnerability to the spiritual search, it gets very confusing and harmful when the student’s spiritual aspiration and their un-clarified sexual desire is mixed with the erotic impulses of the person in power. If you are a teacher and want a relationship with a student, change the agreement, acknowledge your position, and cultivate one with some consciousness and integrity. It doesn’t even have to be long-term. But habitually sleeping around with the people who are studying with you? Uncool."

 

And I have no idea if there is any truth on the accusations concerning Rupert Spira.

 

Selling “Is this cool or uncool?” by the River

 

[Rafael Thundercat]

@Water by the River

There is a lot of Organizations that this Association will  miss out. Because if a Spiritual Leader that is Invested in abuse will not subscribe to the Association, Why would he do it? Will Bentinho Massaro subscribe and be Inspectioned by the Association? Probably not. Will Sneaky Shamans who serve Ayahuasca in Peru to abuse their clients comply to this ? What about the Neo-Western- Fake Shamans in Bali,Costa Rica, Brasil, Portugal etc..? No. I am speaking from a position of really knowing some of this Fucked Up "Spiritual Leaders" 

People are so naiive to thing a Spiritual Leader only think on their behalf. Is a Trap. Whereever there is Power there will be Snatchers, Vultures, Predators. And this can go beyond the actual Spiritual Leader from some community. The Leader can be a mere Pupet to Forces above him. 

 

[Water by the River]

42 minutes ago, BlessedLion said:

The “psychedelic path” is an endless road to nowhere 

and its uphill . 

But that is the case for any path that doesn't lead to eternal always already now of Infinite Being. Which, funnily, is always right here, minus all the filters &lenses &illusions&Karma of the separate-self appearance-Gestalt.

But I guess its fun for certain aliens  Scrat Maya being the hand at 50 seconds and sending the hero of the tragedy up the next "higher" mountain. So....

 

Where did Scrat go btw.?

 

 

[questionreality]

1 hour ago, BlessedLion said:

What I’m saying is being a spiritual teacher is a huge responsibility. People shouldn’t take it up unless they are ready to take on that role. And him cheating on his wife is definitely not cool and out of integrity. Probably turned off some of his students completely from spirituality doing them a huge disservice. If he was just a normal dude plumber who cheated, fine, but he’s not, he’s in a position where many peoples “souls” are relying on him to lead them to God and awakening and he can’t let his dick control him. True teachers know this and he would’ve been wise to just get a divorce if he wanted to sleep with other people 

Like I said, you have false image of what "enlightened" person is supposed to be,  how they are supposed to live their lives, etc. 

First of all, his relationship with his wife is only between him and his wife.  And second of all, it is none of our business with who he sleeps with, unless if those he sleeps with report abuse, rape, etc.

He has been a teacher of 20+ years and if he happen to have cheated this time, this does not take away anything from the teachings. 

The problem is you and many others expect perfection out of these teachers - when they are a human and are capable of making mistakes just like all of us are.  They are ordinary people - not some superhumans that you expect them to be.

What he does in his private life is just his business - none of our business imo.

 

Edited June 15 by questionreality

[Water by the River]

3 minutes ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

@Water by the River

There is a lot of Organizations that this Association will  miss out. Because if a Spiritual Leader that is Invested in abuse will not subscribe to the Association, Why would he do it? Will Bentinho Massaro subscribe and be Inspectioned by the Association? Probably not. Will Sneaky Shamans who serve Ayahuasca in Peru to abuse their clients comply to this ? What about the Neo-Western- Fake Shamans in Bali,Costa Rica, Brasil, Portugal etc..? No. I am speaking from a position of really knowing some of this Fucked Up "Spiritual Leaders" 

People are so naiive to thing a Spiritual Leader only think on their behalf. Is a Trap. Whereever there is Power there will be Snatchers, Vultures, Predators. And this can go beyond the actual Spiritual Leader from some community. The Leader can be a mere Pupet to Forces above him. 

 

And? Isn't it good that such a statement which can be put on ones homepage is available? Then the failing teacher-jokers can be held responsible if they put this on their homepage before, and later fail.

And at some point in the future, business will become difficult for teachers not comitting to something like that. It will be like trying to sell something without ISO 9001 in certain industries. Doesn't work... 

Until then: Welcome to spiritual dark middle-ages. And buyers & ladies beware.

And we need one more point these Code of Ethics: "No Blackpilling  We truly don't know if you have the potential to get IT this life, but until proven otherwise we believe in you!"

And you are IT anyway, even if you don't get it (yet). 

Believing in YOU by the Water

[Cireeric]

Related to this topic I wondered about people like Daniel Schmachtenberger or Jordan Hall. How much of their intelligence and understanding is nature vs. nurture? Is a Daniel Schmachtenberger already born very gifted and well above average in cognitive capacities and probably iq or is it a product of his unique path and deep learning + optimizing his cognition. The answer is probably that it is a mix. But I find it more tricky in those cases than with an Einstein or a Tesla, which are obviously genetic-freaks and a normie probably couldnt develop into those even if he invested his full life energy into trying.

[BlessedLion]

1 hour ago, Water by the River said:

Selling “Is this cool or uncool?” by the River

Hahahaha you’re hilarious dude 

[BlessedLion]

1 hour ago, Water by the River said:

and its uphill . 

But that is the case for any path that doesn't lead to eternal always already now of Infinite Being. Which, funnily, is always right here, minus all the filters &lenses &illusions&Karma of the separate-self appearance-Gestalt.

But I guess its fun for certain aliens  Scrat Maya being the hand at 50 seconds and sending the hero of the tragedy up the next "higher" mountain. So....

 

Where did Scrat go btw.?

 

 

“Anything impermanent is not worth pursuing” Ramana 

[BlessedLion]

1 hour ago, questionreality said:

Like I said, you have false image of what "enlightened" person is supposed to be,  how they are supposed to live their lives, etc. 

First of all, his relationship with his wife is only between him and his wife.  And second of all, it is none of our business with who he sleeps with, unless if those he sleeps with report abuse, rape, etc.

He has been a teacher of 20+ years and if he happen to have cheated this time, this does not take away anything from the teachings. 

The problem is you and many others expect perfection out of these teachers - when they are a human and are capable of making mistakes just like all of us are.  They are ordinary people - not some superhumans that you expect them to be.

What he does in his private life is just his business - none of our business imo.

 

Okay guess we just won’t see eye to eye on this. Can agree to disagree. I won’t put more energy into it 

[What Am I]

2 hours ago, BlessedLion said:

Honestly I think psychedelics are good for one thing; inspiring newbies to get started. From there it’s on you to grow and develop your consciousness. I’m so glad I found schools outside of Leo that are stopped in tradition and embodiment (Hridaya, Cheng Hsin) so I can take what Leo says with a grain of salt. The “psychedelic path” is an endless road to nowhere

The act of entering and maintaining legit states of meditation causes a kind of purification process throughout your body and mind. I've found that 5-MeO-DMT in particular replicates similar states and triggers the same process. Once some purification has happened, it's so much easier to access authentic spirituality when sober. At least that's been my experience.

Would you see value in its continued use beyond beginner with that benefit in mind? With the eventual goal of tapering off as it's less needed, and eventually running on your own steam? It's a booster of sorts, and I'm sure it's not without risks, but if used correctly in the proper context, it seems to point you in the right direction like nothing else can. I'm also on board with the notion that a sober consistent practice is paramount, and psychedelic use on its own will undoubtedly end in frustration.

[VictorB02]

4 hours ago, Water by the River said:

 

"Ken Wilber: The downside comes with people that only use psychedelics or drugs and I found that over the years they just become mean.

It's somehow just kind of closes them down it's like you keep doing it and you keep doing it you keep doing it it doesn't quite cause the transformation.

This is really interesting, because I just read Ram Dass's autobiography, Being Ram Dass, and one of the things that Ram Dass said happened to Timothy Leary after all of their psychedelic use at Harvard and Millbrook was that he started to really close his heart to humans and see them as "fake." Like he used to be a kind open guy but after all their trips he would start to call people "puppets" and continually get into altercations and fights with those around him, even Ram Dass, which is what ultimately led to them going down separate paths - Ram Dass going to India and finding Maharaji and taking the path of Love and Bhakti (devotion), and Timothy Leary becoming the psychedelic prophet "Turn on, Tune in, Drop out" that doubled down on the counter culture movement and adamantly challenged the government structures of the time.

I'm not saying this is what is happening with Leo, but it is eerie how Ken Wilber is explaining what happened to Timothy Leary over 40 years ago: too much psychedelic use closes the compassionate heart and detaches you from your humanity.

Seems to be a pretty clear trap.

Edited June 15 by VictorB02

[VictorB02]

6 hours ago, Salvijus said:

1. Reality is Total and without limit.

2. Realization and comprehension of Reality has degrees. 

The statement that absolute is absolute. And the statement that there are levels of realization don't contradict each other. These two statements are both true simultaniously. 

Exactly what I was trying to say. Well said. 
 

6 hours ago, BlessedLion said:

I also like to think of the human ego mind as a veil and instead of “opening to God” it’s more about “removal of illusion/veil” because God is God which is always there 100%. We are just deeply deluded and ignorant behind our veils, but there really is no real veil, in a way we’re all 100% enlightened already. 

Yes that's a great way of framing it. I feel we are pointing to the same thing just have a slightly different feel for it...

So weird. So cool. I love this stuff.

Edited June 15 by VictorB02

[gettoefl]

6 hours ago, BlessedLion said:

T

@Osaid Youre kind of dodging the point. You can’t deny that you’re in this duality , even at least seemingly, and if someone had a gun to your head you wouldn’t Shit yourself. You talk a lot about everything is now and all, which is True, but also, there does seem to be this structure to reality of a simulation/game in which we can have the dual experiences and I don’t think that just a mistake or “delusion”

duality is for you not for me, it's how i lend you a hand since you think there is duality at play, i don't feel the nails going through my hands but i know you do and i am here to help

you projected me to help you awaken

Edited June 15 by gettoefl