Latest blog post about child prodigies.

[Osaid]

15 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Id say that Leo agree with non duality, since he says that everything is god.

He constantly oscillates between non-duality and duality. Look at it for yourself.

On the one hand he says humans don't exist, then he says you have lower consciousness since you're human. Lol!

[questionreality]

18 minutes ago, Osaid said:

Yeah he completely backpedaled away from non-duality now, despite teaching it before. 

He previously regarded it as absolute truth, but I guess he changed his mind? His perception was incorrect maybe? There is always this pattern where his teachings "evolve" and "change" over time. Very interesting! Maybe he wont even believe in solipsism a few years from now.

Can you imagine if a non-dual teacher was like "no, wait, maybe there is duality, or maybe there isn't..."

That's why I think it's a must that @Leo Gura must make a video to address this - because there are many serious issues with this.

If non-duality is rat logic as he describes and people are just brainwashed with it - then he has to take responsibility for misleading and brainwashing the people for all those years that he has been teaching them non-duality.

In fact, if he is serious about what he said in this thread, apologizing for leading people in the wrong direction would also go along way and not just saying that his "view" has evolved. 

Edited June 14 by questionreality

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Osaid said:

He constantly oscillates between non-duality and duality. Look at it for yourself.

On the one hand he says humans don't exist, then he says you have lower consciousness since you're human. Lol!

Yes, humans, kangaroos and aliens, but he says that they are all imaginary, that everything is God imagining stupid kangaroos or smart aliens, so, non-duality.

There is only one, God. But yes, I think I understand the difference. Non-dualists say that reality is "not two", but there is no creator god, there is oneness. Leo doesn't say "not two", he says "one": God. It is a small difference, which may not be any difference but another angle of approaching the same thing. a creator god? Well yes, reality is creating itself, developing.

although as Leo expresses it it suggests a certain duality: creator and creation. but he knows that creation is the creator...so...leo, confess: you are a non-dualistic, you just don't want to come out of the closet

[VictorB02]

All this banter reminds me of the interview when Leo asks Peter Ralston "Is something beyond the absolute?" and Peter says "No." And then just laughs: "You can't get more absolute than absolute. You can't get more infinite than infinite." 

To me it will always come back to this. Ground zero. Nothingness. Infinity. God. That's what it is. Everything else is banter and bullshit within Gods Mind. 

That's what my awakenings have shown me, at least.

Edited June 15 by VictorB02
Added Video, Corrected quotes

[What Am I]

10 minutes ago, Bandman said:

my point is that he is a grifter because he clearly pretends to be free from all desire, simply in the way he talks and presents himself. He pretends to be super conscious of the mind/vasanas, but would you then cheat on your wife with a 20yr old girl? I have nothing against him but as an audience member you should not have to take that kind of bullshit. It's not like he is Charlie Sheen, he literally presents himself as being the opposite.

Gotcha, thanks. If the accusations are true, my opinion wouldn't be too far off from yours. I'm only first hearing about it in this thread, and I don't know much about Rupert Spira beyond a few videos I've seen. He definitely presents himself as the type of person that'd be beyond such temptations.

Edited June 15 by What Am I

[integral]

9 minutes ago, VictorB02 said:

All this banter reminds me of the interview when Leo asks Peter Ralston "Is something beyond the absolute?" and Peter says "No." And then just laughs: "You can't get more absolute than absolute. You can't get more infinite than infinite." 
 

 

But you can become more conscious, so if you’re 100 times more conscious you can be 100 times more conscious of the absolute and 100 times more conscious of infinity. Infinite awakenings.

You can’t get more absolute that the absolute but you can’ be more conscious of the absolute and you can’t get more infinite than infinite but you can get more conscious of infinite.

Edited June 15 by integral

[What Am I]

4 minutes ago, integral said:

You can’t get more absolute that the absolute but you can’ be more conscious of the absolute and you can’t get more infinite than infinite but you can get more conscious of infinite.

That's an interesting distinction. Who's to say? It'd actually be weird to find out anything is in fact finite, especially the potential for more consciousness.

[What Am I]

37 minutes ago, Bandman said:

What are your thoughts on all this?

Wow, thanks for that, I appreciate you being willing to lay it all out.

I've been into this topic for a long time, as I became experientially aware of spirituality being a real thing when I was around 19, and now I'm not quite so young. Almost exactly Leo's age. After all the study, practice, and psychedelics, I can't claim to really know what the fuck is actually going on with any certainty lol. I've realized over time that I know less than I thought, and psychedelics have shown me there's realms I'll probably never understand when viewed through the lens of my individual finite expression. One thing that's only become more apparent over time is the potential for metaphysical experience to be cracked wide open by various attentional practices, especially when enhanced with psychedelics. And it's in the experience of reality itself where I try to draw my understanding and put my aspirations.

I get the feeling that I may be similar to you, in the sense that I think it's a mistake to tie myself down to a particular philosophy, even if it's a philosophy of the absolute. It seems like it'd be self-limiting, which could really screw you over when your aims are so lofty. I most certainly draw on tried-and-true practices, mostly from Buddhism and Hinduism, but I wouldn't consider myself a member of either of those. States of non-duality are a fact of existence, but I don't need to be a non-dualist. Who knows what lies beyond what we think we understand?

Edited June 15 by What Am I

[Osaid]

1 hour ago, Bandman said:

That means that seperation and duality arose from Gods perfect intelligence.

There is no separation or duality because there isn't anything other than what is happening right now. 

Thoughts appear as "not now", now.

1 hour ago, Bandman said:

It is not by chance that I am stuck in duality

You aren't.

Thoughts appear as "not now", now.

1 hour ago, Bandman said:

in fact I have been set up by the universe to think and act in this way

There isn't "you" and "a universe", both are the same occurrence because both are happening now.

1 hour ago, Bandman said:

So clearly we are now in a "dualistic universe".

A "dualistic universe" couldn't be now.

What happens now couldn't be dual, because what happens now is always one occurrence, since there aren't "two nows." 

There are just thoughts about "not now", occurring now.

1 hour ago, Bandman said:

You say it only seems that way, but that actually confirms the existence of duality because now there is a fundamental duality of what seems to be so and what is actually so.

Nothing could confirm the existence of something that isn't happening now, because it would have to happen now. There are thoughts occurring now, about "not now."

Dualities are concepts which aren't experienced. Like "non-existence."

If someone believes they are a unicorn, that doesn't make them a unicorn.

No one sees water in a mirage. They just assume it or believe it. Assumptions and beliefs aren't experienced, by definition.

[Osaid]

1 hour ago, VictorB02 said:

All this banter reminds me of the interview when Leo asks Peter Ralston "Is something beyond the absolute?" and Peter says "No." And then just laughs: "You can't get more absolute than absolute. You can't get more infinite than infinite." 

To me it will always come back to this. Ground zero. Nothingness. Infinity. God. That's what it is. Everything else is banter and bullshit within Gods Mind. 

That's what my awakenings have shown me, at least.

Yeah this is exactly what Leo's crux is. He thinks there is something beyond the absolute. I sent this same video a while ago too.

Whenever Leo says "degrees of consciousness" or "higher consciousness", he is saying that there is something beyond the absolute, as in, there is something beyond your current conscious experience. (he will probably deny this summation, but it is exactly what his intellect is doing)

In order for there to be degrees of consciousness, or higher consciousness, there must be something other than consciousness, but this is impossible. 

Non-duality says that there is nothing beyond now, so there are no degrees of consciousness at all. Now is absolute.

[Osaid]

34 minutes ago, Bandman said:

I also don't see how assumptions and beliefs are not experiences.

They are concepts which aren't experienced. In the same way that the word "non-existence" defines itself as something which is not experienced.

You can't believe or assume something you are experiencing. That's like saying "the taste of water is a belief/assumption." Beliefs and assumptions are like thoughts that fill in the gaps of what is not experienced. But the fundamental fact remains, which is that it all has to occur now.

Exactly like reading a book. You imagine that the words are describing something. When the book describes the past, you're reading it now. When the book describes the future, you're reading it now. Non-duality/enlightenment is realizing that you're always reading now, and thus nothing is being described.

Edited June 15 by Osaid

[VictorB02]

4 hours ago, integral said:

But you can become more conscious, so if you’re 100 times more conscious you can be 100 times more conscious of the absolute and 100 times more conscious of infinity. Infinite awakenings.

You can’t get more absolute that the absolute but you can’ be more conscious of the absolute and you can’t get more infinite than infinite but you can get more conscious of infinite.

 

2 hours ago, Osaid said:

Yeah this is exactly what Leo's crux is. He thinks there is something beyond the absolute. I sent this same video a while ago too.

Whenever Leo says "degrees of consciousness" or "higher consciousness", he is saying that there is something beyond the absolute, as in, there is something beyond your current conscious experience. (he will probably deny this summation, but it is exactly what his intellect is doing)

In order for there to be degrees of consciousness, or higher consciousness, there must be something other than consciousness, but this is impossible. 

Non-duality says that there is nothing beyond now, so there are no degrees of consciousness at all. Now is absolute.

See I agree with both of you, to me Consciousness IS itself. It's Total. It's Infinite - AND  I feel that "higher consciousness" is possible, but that is really a misnomer, because it's nature is such that even a glimpse is total, like Ralston said: "All my awakenings are the deepest." So, it's more like you are opening, or receiving, more of that infinity which already is.

In Aldous Huxley's book, Doors of Perception, he calls the human mind a "reductioning valve" to "Mind at Large" (Aka God): to me this perfectly sets the picture. God is God. Infinity is Infinity. But your mind can somehow open its "valve" to receive or comprehend God more, which feels subjectively like "more" consciousness, but it's not really "more" because it's the same substance. It's always been that way. There isn't more of it, you're just opening to it more. You're "seeing" it more. You're letting "more" of that infinity in.

That is my current understanding of it at least. 

But yeah, as far as something "beyond" God or Consciousness to me it's evident that's impossible. Even alien consciousness is still consciousness, You can't escape consciousness, no matter what flavor it takes (and I'm not saying it can't take on some insane and radical flavors). 

Edited June 15 by VictorB02

[BlessedLion]

8 hours ago, VictorB02 said:

All this banter reminds me of the interview when Leo asks Peter Ralston "Is something beyond the absolute?" and Peter says "No." And then just laughs: "You can't get more absolute than absolute. You can't get more infinite than infinite." 

To me it will always come back to this. Ground zero. Nothingness. Infinity. God. That's what it is. Everything else is banter and bullshit within Gods Mind. 

That's what my awakenings have shown me, at least.

Yep. That’s spot on. 

[questionreality]

@Osaid Your explanations are some of the best that I have seen. Even Leo has not been able to refute what you are saying - that's why I really want him to make a video, that will outline his entire position and present his thesis/argument in a comprehensive way.

[BlessedLion]

12 hours ago, Bandman said:

Why would I not be honest lol. Just because I disagree with you metaphysically/theologically does not mean I don't see that you are probably a very morally developed person and have attained a nice state of consciousness by your own testimony. I appreciate your prescence and inspiration and I hope you guide more people along the way.

In the same sense that you might not agree with the medieval Cathars of France, who were extremely dualistic in their spirituality but were probably some of the most morally developed people at that time.

Yeah, My point was never about non-duality, just about Rupert.

My question to you is; what makes non-duality the absolute case? I'm not denying it, but it feels like it doesn't go deep enough. Non-duality almost feels like starting point of truth, but that there's an ocean of it after coming into that gate. Of course non-duality is true, but is that all to truth? If non-duality is the only truth, why is our perceived universe, the creation made by non-duality, such a dualistic universe? What does the word non-duality mean beyond a pointer to the signified truth, and why is it the ultimate word in your view? Aren't their better pointers than "non-duality"?

Well thank you then ❤️🙏. I appreciate that, and yes, it’s always okay to agree to disagree respectfully. All the best.  
 

Regarding your point, it’s not that I don’t find the exploration of consciousness fascinating. In fact the opposite, about a week ago I posted about why spiritual books don’t TALK about the illusion. It’s all just about awakening. So I’m with you there. 
 

Here my main argument was this crusade here against non duality as if it’s a lie or brainwashing. Bc non duality is the basis for reality, reality IS non dual, it’s absolute. Done. From there you can go into alien consciousness or different dimensions or whatever. But posing non duality as some delusion brainwashing (as many do here, copying Leo) is just plain wrong. 
 

Caveat, is I see the annoyance and turn off with non dual PEOPLE, Rupert Spira for example, and annoying spiritual people, but that shouldn’t take away from the truth of our absolute nature. Rupert Spira can go kill a bunch of babies and non duality is still the basis or fabric of reality. 

[BlessedLion]

12 hours ago, questionreality said:

Why does it matter who he chooses to sleep with, and weather he is in a relationship or not? It in no way devalues what he teaches imo. 

A spiritual teacher definitely has a moral obligation to stay in integrity and anyone using their power for sex is a fraud in my point of view. True non duality is recognizing everyone is you and you want to act from the highest Love. Ramana Maharishi for example would never let himself be given food before others or any special treatment in his ashram

[BlessedLion]

8 hours ago, integral said:

But you can become more conscious, so if you’re 100 times more conscious you can be 100 times more conscious of the absolute and 100 times more conscious of infinity. Infinite awakenings.

You can’t get more absolute that the absolute but you can’ be more conscious of the absolute and you can’t get more infinite than infinite but you can get more conscious of infinite.

Def. There’s levels of depths to awakening even in something like the Absolute. The ultimate irony. 

[Salvijus]

1. Reality is Total and without limit.

2. Realization and comprehension of Reality has degrees. 

The statement that absolute is absolute. And the statement that there are levels of realization don't contradict each other. These two statements are both true simultaniously. 

Edited June 15 by Salvijus

[BlessedLion]

5 hours ago, VictorB02 said:

 

See I agree with both of you, to me Consciousness IS itself. It's Total. It's Infinite - AND  I feel that "higher consciousness" is possible, but that is really a misnomer, because it's nature is such that even a glimpse is total, like Ralston said: "All my awakenings are the deepest." So, it's more like you are opening, or receiving, more of that infinity which already is.

In Aldous Huxley's book, Doors of Perception, he calls the human mind a "reductioning valve" to "Mind at Large" (Aka God): to me this perfectly sets the picture. God is God. Infinity is Infinity. But your mind can somehow open its "valve" to receive or comprehend God more, which feels subjectively like "more" consciousness, but it's not really "more" because it's the same substance. It's always been that way. There isn't more of it, you're just opening to it more. You're "seeing" it more. You're letting "more" of that infinity in.

That is my current understanding of it at least. 

But yeah, as far as something "beyond" God or Consciousness to me it's evident that's impossible. Even alien consciousness is still consciousness, You can't escape consciousness, no matter what flavor it takes (and I'm not saying it can't take on some insane and radical flavors). 

This was a great explanation. Probably the only one that truly makes sense. 
 

I also like to think of the human ego mind as a veil and instead of “opening to God” it’s more about “removal of illusion/veil” because God is God which is always there 100%. We are just deeply deluded and ignorant behind our veils, but there really is no real veil, in a way we’re all 100% enlightened already. 
 

@Osaid Youre kind of dodging the point. You can’t deny that you’re in this duality , even at least seemingly, and if someone had a gun to your head you wouldn’t Shit yourself. You talk a lot about everything is now and all, which is True, but also, there does seem to be this structure to reality of a simulation/game in which we can have the dual experiences and I don’t think that just a mistake or “delusion”

[bambi]

I think Leos used up all his spirtuality insights a few years ago. Now its just limtiing beliefs, negativity, theres nothing hopeful positive, novel or inspiring about his work, and its been like this for some time now.

I wonder how the next 5-10 years turn out for him, it cannot be simply more of the same, it cannot be healthy to have such a deep disdain for life and humanity, which is equivalent for disdain for your self