Having the truth ignored by everyone

[mmKay]

2 hours ago, Davino said:

@mmKay Many times you ask a bunch of questions without giving useful results oriented advise later.

Fill in the gaps in your mind and try to add value to the user that asked. Assuming can get you into problems but you need to the develop the skill of getting the general flavour of a situation without interrogating the thread starter.

thanks for the feedback . I seriously considered it and had a look and my post history to have a look at myself, but it is factually untrue. I almost never ask questions and if I do it's because the message lacks a concrete tangible description and then we are left speaking in vague, lofty terms, which get anwsered in general vague terms by other users before me,  so I don't feel it to be valuable to add more general perspective without having more concrete details or clarity

Anyways, I consider asking the right questions " giving value " , sometimes even more than giving my uninformed opinion

Edited June 11 by mmKay

[Davino]

2 hours ago, BlessedLion said:

I second this. Having solid community is huge for deep spiritual growth. I no longer associate with people who would gaslight or disrespect my views, not that they can’t disagree, but outright meanness is no longer something I tolerate in people I associate with. 

That's good, so that your close circle knows where you are coming from and have some point of reference in the field. However, I must warn you that the deeper you get into the work the harder it will be to get the feeling of understanding and communion with others, just because you are so different to other human beings. This is not to say you can't connect with humans, of course you can and there is a threshold in development where your friend/girl will respect you and care for you even if your are very different, but is something to consider and it took me some time to come to terms with. Just learn to enjoy the most profound awakenings by yourself. Be like that artist that nobody understood till one hundred years passed, but he loved and recognised his own genius although anyone else did.

[Davino]

1 hour ago, mmKay said:

if I do it's because the message lacks a concrete tangible description and then we are left speaking in vague, lofty terms, which get anwsered in general vague terms by other users before me,  so I don't feel it to be valuable to add more general perspective without having more concrete details or clarity

Fair enough

1 hour ago, mmKay said:

Anyways, I consider asking the right questions " giving value " , sometimes even more than giving my uninformed opinion

Fair enough

 

In fact, I've been reflecting also about it and it's not a bug from you but a feature. I have the intuition, correct me if I'm wrong, that you might be a Detail-Oriented thinker and that your mind may be wired like that. I'm a more abstract full scoop thinker so probably it was this contrast which made me discern imprecisely.

It has been an extremely conscious communication between the two of us and I'm really happy about it. Have a nice day @mmKay and if I go to Malaga one day I'll drop you a line.

[Rafael Thundercat]

@mmKay do you live in Malaga? We are almost Close. I live in South Portugal Beach Side. 

[BlessedLion]

1 hour ago, Davino said:

That's good, so that your close circle knows where you are coming from and have some point of reference in the field. However, I must warn you that the deeper you get into the work the harder it will be to get the feeling of understanding and communion with others, just because you are so different to other human beings. This is not to say you can't connect with humans, of course you can and there is a threshold in development where your friend/girl will respect you and care for you even if your are very different, but is something to consider and it took me some time to come to terms with. Just learn to enjoy the most profound awakenings by yourself. Be like that artist that nobody understood till one hundred years passed, but he loved and recognised his own genius although anyone else did.

Mhmm. Love it. Def feel like that most of the time, but I also don’t feel super different from others 

[BlessedLion]

53 minutes ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

@mmKay do you live in Malaga? We are almost Close. I live in South Portugal Beach Side. 

I sense a friendship brewing…

[Rafael Thundercat]

I dont agree with everything this Guy say but from my experience a lot of what he say make sense. For some people you need just to let go of trying to force feed truth onto them. 

[Carl-Richard]

On 10.6.2024 at 1:07 AM, integral said:

i’ll point to something explain exactly what is going on and no one believes me. They will regurgitate the obvious wrong answer and fail to see the limits of their own intuition.

Do you have a concrete example of the situation you're talking about? (or two or three or five).

Edited June 11 by Carl-Richard

[integral]

9 hours ago, mmKay said:

Can you provide specific examples of what you're talking about?

2 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Do you have a concrete example of the situation you're talking about? (or two or three or five).

Seeing as two people asked I'll just provide an example, my aunt takes thyroid medication every year or two they increase her medication whenever they increase her medication she has severe panic attacks for about 4-5 months, this connection between the increase of the thyroid hormone and the panic attacks she is not able to make. The process of making the connection between these two things she's not capable of doing. Whenever she's having panic attacks I ask her did they recently increase your medication? She says yes, she then dismisses this simple connection because "I trust doctors and who are you?".  This exact pattern has repeated itself for the past 20 years for which I've been keeping track of about four to five instances where I ask her the same question in the same situation, every time she has panic attacks I asked her if they increase their medication recently she responds with yes. It is a very clear consistent pattern, the process of making this connection is too much of a mental leap for this person. She never has panic attacks at any other point in her life. A basic Google search can connect anxiety and panic attacks to hyperthyroidism, this is not a unfounded claim. The conversation is also open-ended I just asked a question she then contemplates it and sort of dismisses it as a possibility and nothing more and doesn't really want to think more about it because there's no way for her to validate where it's true or not. So it's like I asked the question a connection is suggested between the increase in hormone and the panic attacks but then she takes this possibility and does nothing with it because she has no way to validate it. Then she forgets entirely and the next time it happens she completely forgets the conversation we had completely has no awareness of this connection. It's a baffling thing when someone is not in the process of making sense of anything they actually just forget everything. Forgetting is a powerful devilish defense mechanism. 

Another example is the air at my father's house causes me a sore throat within 30 minutes of being in there, within 4 hours it causes both my kidneys to hurt (do not deny my experience of this I know exactly what kidney pain is in this body). So I decided to investigate to figure out what was causing it and I discovered that because he uses bleach in his laundry machine and his laundry machine is poorly ventilated that the chemical is actually coming into the house and filling up the entire building enough to smell it in every room. When I tell them this they actively deny smelling it, they simply cannot smell it and they are incapable of understanding the simple connection of how airflow Works in a house and how anything related to inhaling this would directly affect biology and that it would create the sore throat. They also actively deny my direct experience and physiological symptoms because it's to Strange for air to create a sore throat in a person especially when no one else as mentioned anything in their house and they cannot smell it because they live in that house so they're just used to the smell and toxic effects on their body. I also explain how what they're inhaling is directly affecting their state of mind and putting stress in their bodies but this is far too complex for them to understand. Also communicating to them that my kidneys hurt is a astronomical concept that they have no idea any human being is even capable of detecting, like higher levels of body self-awareness is not something they know exists, so when I communicate that I can feel things they don't believe me. 

Another thing is whenever my mother drinks coffee in the morning she becomes noticeably agitated and she has a very specific emotional state she enters into because her cortisol levels go up too high, its too much stress on her system because she's 63 and she cannot drink coffee like she used to when she was a kid without any consequences. Explaining how coffee is not a beverage it's a stimulant that affects the system is too complex, and more importantly they are incapable of making the connection between the coffee and their emotions. This connection between two things is too much of a cognitive leap to make. On top of that when she drinks coffee and experiences a stressful event during the day from the external environment she gets a sore throat. This sore throat is directly related to stress and not sickness. She mistakenly Associates the sore throat with " I am catching a cold". While I repeatedly explain to her that it is not a cold she's catching it is the accumulation of multiple days of stress and poor recovery. I've carefully observed this pattern over and over and over again and carefully kept track of the circumstances, you're going to speculate that I might be wrong I'm not this is a very clear pattern that I've observed in isolation over and over again. My solution instead of convincing her is to switch her coffee to decaf and that solves the issue. 

The examples above are in the domain of the practical I rarely say anything that is outside of that to people around me because it becomes a battle of opinions where they are not able to see how to figure out which perspective is more conscious, they just default to their own perspective using the technique of out talking me and ranting. Like if I tell someone that the only way to get out of their situation is to follow a path of self-development, it's just too hard to convey this to someone within their attention span and within a conversation where they expect entertainment not insight. Of course I should merge entertainment and inside but I'm not that skilled and most people are stuck in their ways. 

Edited June 11 by integral

[integral]

2 hours ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

I dont agree with everything this Guy say but from my experience a lot of what he say make sense. For some people you need just to let go of trying to force feed truth onto them. 

That's actually exactly the technique I ended up using is where I just give people hints and I hope they eventually make the connection but the thing is it is extremely difficult for people to make a connection between two things even when you spoon feed it to them. Like it's a insane superpower to make connections between two things outside of there box. 

Insights happen often when making observations over time and eventually a pattern is formed through the observations and then you see something hidden right in front of you. But that Insights cannot be taught to anyone unless they're awake to the process of insights.

Edited June 11 by integral

[theleelajoker]

Disclaimer: I just read the opeing post

@integral

Quote

How do you guys handle being gaslighted every day by everyone? I don’t judge them but at some point it’s just tiring in the long term.

• I go through the emotion as best and as authentically as I can. Method: accept it, feel it, express it, show it. Showing people how I feel, acting as respectful as I can and as appropriate as I feel is "right" in the current context
•  I dis-identify from that experience as best as I can. Methods to that: Talking, sleeping, sports, yoga, meditation....whatever works for now.
• I accept it as best as I can. Method 1: Mirroring.  I imagine the person in front of me is a part of me. As long as this person is there, as long as I am exposed to this behavior, so long there is still a part of me that is the same way as the person in front of me. Method 2: I assume, that everybody is always doing the best he/she can at every point in time (I think I read this once from Marc Aurel, stoic perspective)
• In the cases where I successfully completed the bullets above, I typically have to laugh. About myself lol
• In cases where I did not successfully completed the bullets above, I unconsciously do the opposites. I do not accept, do not express, I do identify, I blame others. Process repeats until I manage to express, dis-identify and accept. Then I laugh. About myself
• I move on. Life surprises me. Whatever happens, happens. Recently discovered the cartoon below. Makes me smile

https://x.com/IrenaBuzarewicz/status/1783166817906708567

 

Edited June 12 by theleelajoker

[mmKay]

@integral its a complex situation, ill share a few half baked perspectives for now - i may edit and elaborate later :
 You seem to have a personal-development bias. It's not eveyones top priority to improve themselves or to be openminded. Some people prioritize being right, having a solid worldview, avoiding cognitive dissonance, not challenging the status-quo, have their own pet theories, want emotional comfort, or simply prioritize on  more basic survival and day to day things and worries. Consider that their closedmindedness, selfishness, stubborness, laziness, etc. serves a complex purpose you're not seeing at a first glance .

also you seem to have a lot of attachment towards changing , improving others or their minds / beliefs, pointing out their blind spots, and people validating your worldview . That's something to work on letting go of . You can lead the horse to the water but not make it drink. You are not responsible for changing anyone, and even less if they havent asked for it. People don't owe you changing for you or validating you or your ideas. Have you thought that maybe, in a twisted, complex irrational counter intuitive paradoxical way, people enjoy their problems? and that you are threating to take them away, or are actually creating problems by pointing them out ?

You don't communicate the same way or same topics to a kid than to an adult. If you know some people's mind simply works differently, knowing how to addapt your comunication style to reach people in a more effective way is a valuable skill. Maybe make clear when sharing your perspectives, that it is like this way for you, or it' your opinion. Otherwise it may come across as preaching and an attack to their worlview. You may benefit from working on a little " spyral wizardry" as it's called as in knowing how to reach different people at different levels of cognitive and moral development. ( remember that SD is only one lense of many )
From what I've noticed you're almost overly logical, nunanced and philosophical, and it may come across as repeling for normies causing them to dismiss you even more easily, or almost as threat to their worldview. For example, your signature is a great attitude towards your inner world, but if you come across that dense in the slightes to others, it's likely they will either dismiss you, find you annoying or disagree with you a lot .

 

consider for example, that If they don't smell the bleach and they don't feel any or much symptoms, or they simply dont make the connection, it almost doesn't exist from their POV, and you're the one acting weird.

I recommend keeping any personal development, philosophy or spirituallity to yourself or your career. Other than that just be very casual and laid back around normies. Meet people where they're at. Connect with them where you know they are able to connect. Maybe once in a while you will accidantaly stumble upon someone with your same interests IRL, but other than that you can scratch that itch on this online forum, to a certain degree

sorry if this sounds a little blunt, it's pretty half-backed but I feel you will get some value from it . I may expand later

Edited June 12 by mmKay

[integral]

@mmKay that’s a reasonable take Lol The situation I’m in is when I interact with people we form a connection very quickly and it always leads to them opening up and telling me their life story and their issues and whatever else, like I’m taking the role of peoples therapist automatically or people feel comfortable talking to me about everything and that will naturally end up leading to possible solutions! In the end they don’t wanna hear the solution, like how do you tell someone with two failed marriages Who is desperately lonely and desperately seeking love that The reason these women are avoiding him is because he can’t control his emotions and he’s dumping his emotions onto everyone around him and he’s overly verbal and communicates too much every little thing he feels to everyone. A girlfriend is not your therapist do not put your emotions on to them they can barely handle their own lives. The repulsive thing that he is doing has to now be spoken about. The only loving thing to do is to point them in the right direction. 

it’s not that I’m forcing opinions onto random people it’s that they’re dumping all of their emotions on to me and then while we’re connecting I’m like OK let’s Play a completely different game! Why are we playing this game at the lowest level?

All ego problems are solved by more consciousness! Let’s crank this shit up!

I need to figure out how to keep conversations light and about humour And avoid somehow connecting with people lol 😂 that seems to be the general strategy other people have recommended so far lol

Maybe there’s another solution every guru has the skill of converting an idea to a piece of candy that’s easily consumable. I need to learn to make candy lol

Edited June 12 by integral

[Carl-Richard]

@integral

Firstly, every example you mentioned deals with things that are not necessarily true. They're empirical hypotheses. So they're not "obviously true"; they might as well be completely false. The hypotheses might make sense theoretically and they might even be probably true empirically, but still, that does not make them "obviously true".

But let's assume they are true. Still, for all of your examples except the thyroid one, it doesn't seem like it's important or relevant (to them). It seems like it's only you who care about the air quality at your father's house, or your mother's mood when she is drinking coffee. It's a bit like the guy who mails the city council a 80-page manifesto about the street lights being too bright. Even if everything he is saying is 100% true, nobody really cares. And that's mostly on him to deal with.

But I know your frustration. For example, people tend to ask me why I drink zero alcohol. I tend to answer "I don't like the hangovers; the short-term pleasure to longer-term pain is not worth it imo". What I really want to answer is "I value flow and functionality which gives me an incredible sense of meaning and well-being, and I try to avoid things that interfere with that", but if I say that, I come off like a better-knowing prick lecturing them about life and making them feel self-conscious. And more importantly, again, they don't really care.

Being social is about relevance, not truth. In other words, what do people care about? If you always say what is most relevant, and not just in social situations but in any part of life, people will like you and you will be a happy person. But of course, you don't want to do that just for social validation. You want to do it because it comes from your internal values (which for me is flow and functionality). And to me, dumping all of your internal thoughts and interests onto other people any chance you get is dysfunctional. But again, I understand the frustration.

Edited June 12 by Carl-Richard