Leo, do you sometimes use psychedelics to boost your creativity ?

[deathendmartin]

Leo, do you sometimes use psychedelics to boost your creativity ?

[Yimpa]

Hell yeah!

[Leo Gura]

Never. Psychedelics are too profound for such a trivial purpose.

Edited June 9 by Leo Gura

[bambi]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Never. Psychedelics are too profound for such a trivial purpose.

Do pscyhedelics ever bring up any negativitt or ego content for you anymore or did that stop a long time ago?

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, bambi said:

Do pscyhedelics ever bring up any negativitt or ego content for you anymore or did that stop a long time ago?

Mostly not.

The negative stuff that usually comes up for me is not personal but existential in nature.

[bambi]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Mostly not.

The negative stuff that usually comes up for me is not personal but existential in nature.

Do you never get fear of being sent to hell or going to hell realms etc or has that all stopped for you?

 

Can you give an example of a type of negative existential things that might arise for you

[Leo Gura]

53 minutes ago, bambi said:

Do you never get fear of being sent to hell or going to hell realms etc or has that all stopped for you?

I don't focus on that much.

But it's possible. Just depends on whether your mind leans in that direction.

53 minutes ago, bambi said:

Can you give an example of a type of negative existential things that might arise for you

Insanity and the like.

[bambi]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't focus on that much.

But it's possible. Just depends on whether your mind leans in that direction.

Insanity and the like.

At least for me doing cocaine and alcohol literally makes my pscyhedelic experiences incredibly dark. Im not sure if one is healthy that they would experience hell realms. I experienced them only after severe abuse and addiction

Im currently in 12 step groups, do oyu think psychedelics 5meo malt, 5meodmt etc could be useuful for helping addicitons, or only for metaphysical contemplation

 

[LambdaDelta]

6 minutes ago, bambi said:

At least for me doing cocaine and alcohol literally makes my pscyhedelic experiences incredibly dark. Im not sure if one is healthy that they would experience hell realms. I experienced them only after severe abuse and addiction

It's totally possible for a psychologically healthy person to experience hellish dimensions, especially if they're interested in all aspects of reality and seek these out.

Substance abuse, mental illness, poor setting, etc. will increase the likelihood of it and also color your perceptions negatively, but it doesn't have to be that way.

[What Am I]

1 minute ago, LambdaDelta said:

It's totally possible for a psychologically healthy person to experience hellish dimensions, especially if they're interested in all aspects of reality and seek these out.

Substance abuse, mental illness, poor setting, etc. will increase the likelihood of it and also color your perceptions negatively, but it doesn't have to be that way.

Oh god, 100% agreement there. Healthy living alone does not preclude hellish trips unfortunately.

[bambi]

11 minutes ago, LambdaDelta said:

It's totally possible for a psychologically healthy person to experience hellish dimensions, especially if they're interested in all aspects of reality and seek these out.

Substance abuse, mental illness, poor setting, etc. will increase the likelihood of it and also color your perceptions negatively, but it doesn't have to be that way.

Im not convinced that a spiritually advanced person with little trauma or self destructive behaviours would expeirence what Ive experinced, in fact I am certain they wouldnt

Ive had over a 1000+ trips, and my worst ones where after getting sober, and then relapsing into a dark dark place (5 day no sleep cocaine benders with 1-2 litrs of vodka per day, 1-2 escorts a day), and then doing pscyhedelics, nothign comes close

Everything is relative right, some people get scared of k-holes, where i enjoyed them, and would mix with alcohol. Your defintion of hell experience and mine coould be different

For me when all my chakras were blocked in my head after cocaine and taking heroic dose of psilcobyin I experienced the lived reality of being sent to hell, begging for mercy, being disconnected form infinite conciousness into an abyss which a red portal of hell appeared and I begged, and cried as all my forehead was in agony, about 1 inch thick of blcokages.

 

[LambdaDelta]

3 minutes ago, What Am I said:

Oh god, 100% agreement there. Healthy living alone does not preclude hellish trips unfortunately.

I don't regard it as "unfortunately". I've experienced being trapped for thousands of years in a dimension alone with no need for food but feeling of hunger didn't go anywhere, among other crazy stuff. Looking back fondly at all those, even though in the moment it sure doesn't feel nice. In the end it's still all about perception. Understandable why most would avoid such things, but for some nutjobs like myself experiencing the full spectrum of existence is a necessity, it's not enough to just intellectually understand that such places exist.

[What Am I]

7 minutes ago, LambdaDelta said:

I don't regard it as "unfortunately". I've experienced being trapped for thousands of years in a dimension alone with no need for food but feeling of hunger didn't go anywhere, among other crazy stuff. Looking back fondly at all those, even though in the moment it sure doesn't feel nice. In the end it's still all about perception. Understandable why most would avoid such things, but for some nutjobs like myself experiencing the full spectrum of existence is a necessity, it's not enough to just intellectually understand that such places exist.

True enough, I avoid those types of realms like the plague, but maybe that's to my detriment ultimately.

[Leo Gura]

35 minutes ago, bambi said:

At least for me doing cocaine and alcohol literally makes my pscyhedelic experiences incredibly dark. Im not sure if one is healthy that they would experience hell realms. I experienced them only after severe abuse and addiction

Im currently in 12 step groups, do oyu think psychedelics 5meo malt, 5meodmt etc could be useuful for helping addicitons, or only for metaphysical contemplation

You need to take a long break from all chemicals. Just chill back and learn to operate sober.

[bambi]

1 minute ago, What Am I said:

True enough, I avoid those types of realms like the plague, but maybe that's to my detriment ultimately.

Absolutely not, anyone who thinks being stuck in lower astral realms or hell realms is an idiot lol, living in severe pain disconnect, intursive thoughtss, negativity is by definition not fun, its scary, isolating and terrorfying, theres nothing down there but misery

[bambi]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

You need to take a long break from all chemicals. Just chill back and learn to operate sober.

It can take upto 2 years to recover, and Ive been trying for 5 years now, I have PAWS (post acute withdawal syndrome) which is literally 18-24 months of complete abstinence of orgasm, alcoohl, drugs to recover. I have to experiment with psychedelics to expedite this, its been 5 year stuck in PAWS hel due to relapsing, I cant seem to break free

Bill Wilson who founded 12 steps became a huge proponent of LSD toward end of his life but it wasnt accepted by the 12 step orthodoxy

[LambdaDelta]

3 minutes ago, bambi said:

Im not convinced that a spiritually advanced person with little trauma or self destructive behaviours would expeirence what Ive experinced, in fact I am certain they wouldnt

Ive had over a 1000+ trips, and my worst ones where after getting sober, and then relapsing into a dark dark place (5 day no sleep cocaine benders with 1-2 litrs of vodka per day, 1-2 escorts a day), and then doing pscyhedelics, nothign comes close

Everything is relative right, some people get scared of k-holes, where i enjoyed them, and would mix with alcohol. Your defintion of hell experience and mine coould be different

For me when all my chakras were blocked in my head after cocaine and taking heroic dose of psilcobyin I experienced the lived reality of being sent to hell, begging for mercy, being disconnected form infinite conciousness into an abyss which a red portal of hell appeared and I begged, and cried as all my forehead was in agony, about 1 inch thick of blcokages.

 

I understand. It is a valid argument that a highly conscious person would not experience hell as hell, it would all be heaven. On the other hand, if you consciously choose to see hell, nothing will prevent you from that. 

The trouble is if one stumbles there on accident, which of course the various addictive and unhealthy patterns will reinforce. Getting trapped in a self-feeding nightmarish loop is a real possibility, where all your inner filth is reflected back at you amplified by a hundredfold, with you having no control nor capacity to handle it. 

I've read dozens of trip reports gone awfully wrong and experienced a good deal of that myself, though I won't make claims whether mine were harder or easier than anyone's.

[bambi]

Just now, LambdaDelta said:

I understand. It is a valid argument that a highly conscious person would not experience hell as hell, it would all be heaven. On the other hand, if you consciously choose to see hell, nothing will prevent you from that. 

The trouble is if one stumbles there on accident, which of course the various addictive and unhealthy patterns will reinforce. Getting trapped in a self-feeding nightmarish loop is a real possibility, where all your inner filth is reflected back at you amplified by a hundredfold, with you having no control nor capacity to handle it. 

I've read dozens of trip reports gone awfully wrong and experienced a good deal of that myself, though I won't make claims whether mine were harder or easier than anyone's.

No I dont think you fully cognise. Its not as though my life is great and I had a bad trip of hell. Im talking of 5 day no sleep cociane benders to the point I could die. And then going through the most extreme withdrawals possible. Im pretty sure 90% of people would have died or killed themslves to endure what I have. And this is the context surrounding my trips. Barely making it from the bed to the couch as I lay in agony all day, AND THEN doing heroic doses of mushrooms.

I have had all manor of 'scary' experiences in my 20s when tripping, but I had my overall health, so it was completely different. The experiences I had early this year, I didnt even know it was possible to experience it. There was a real felt sense that you could fuck yourself so bad you could permnenantly disconnect yourself from love or God or life. Whether this is ultimately true or not is irrelevant, only a fool would find out, the stakes are isnurmentibly high

[LambdaDelta]

5 minutes ago, bambi said:

No I dont think you fully cognise. Its not as though my life is great and I had a bad trip of hell. Im talking of 5 day no sleep cociane benders to the point I could die. And then going through the most extreme withdrawals possible. Im pretty sure 90% of people would have died or killed themslves to endure what I have. And this is the context surrounding my trips. Barely making it from the bed to the couch as I lay in agony all day, AND THEN doing heroic doses of mushrooms.

I have had all manor of 'scary' experiences in my 20s when tripping, but I had my overall health, so it was completely different. The experiences I had early this year, I didnt even know it was possible to experience it. There was a real felt sense that you could fuck yourself so bad you could permnenantly disconnect yourself from love or God or life. Whether this is ultimately true or not is irrelevant, only a fool would find out, the stakes are isnurmentibly high

Maybe I don't, who knows. Had my fair share of immense pain and suffering, physical and mental. It wouldn't be wise to assume about other people or make comparisons. "Disconnected from God" is a duality, everything you describe is still within God. But that doesn't matter, as long as our perception of the issue remains different it'll all just be semantics. I wish you a speedy recovery.

[Leo Gura]

24 minutes ago, bambi said:

It can take upto 2 years to recover, and Ive been trying for 5 years now, I have PAWS (post acute withdawal syndrome) which is literally 18-24 months of complete abstinence of orgasm, alcoohl, drugs to recover. I have to experiment with psychedelics to expedite this, its been 5 year stuck in PAWS hel due to relapsing, I cant seem to break free

Bill Wilson who founded 12 steps became a huge proponent of LSD toward end of his life but it wasnt accepted by the 12 step orthodoxy

But you've done hundreds of trips already so clearly that isn't the solution.

It's not like you're new to psychedelics.

Sorry to say, but I don't think you will be able to expedite this. Seems to me, the more you look for ways to expedite it, the longer it will take.

I think you are fundamentally resisting a sober life, for whatever complex psychological reasons.

Edited June 9 by Leo Gura