Role Of Psychedelics And Their Effects After Self-Realization: Artem Boytsov x Frank

[What Am I]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

A human self has some control over the inter world, but not the outer world. (You can't unimagime gravity, unless you are sleep-dreaming).

God's Mind places imaginary limits upon the human mind. Which is the only reason why a human cannot walk through a brick wall. Your human mind can imagine and will to walk through a brick wall, but God's Imagination will override that, so you will not be able to walk through it. But you can inside a sleep-dream because there God's Imagination is turned off.

I realize this is kind of irrelevant to the point you're making, but do you leave open the possibility that a highly advanced human may be theoretically capable of these types of things using their innate (though atrophied) capabilities? I'm speaking of course in the outer world. Just curious where you stand on something like that.

Edited June 22 by What Am I

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, What Am I said:

I realize this is kind of irrelevant to the point you're making, but do you leave open the possibility that a highly advanced human may be theoretically capable of these types of things using their innate (though atrophied) capabilities? I'm speaking of course in the outer world. Just curious where you stand on something like that.

I believe that if one became super-humanly conscious one could walk through a brick wall. But no human is anywhere close to that level of consciousness. 

Which is one of the reasons why I say that enlightenment is low consciousness. If enlightennent was high consciousness then enlightened people should be able to walk through brick walls, but they can't.

What's unique about my explanations of Consciousness is that I can explain why humans cannot walk through brick walls and also how they could. No nondual person has a good answer for this. Because they don't actually understand how consciousness works.

Edited June 22 by Leo Gura

[Inliytened1]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I believe that if one became super-humanly conscious one could walk through a brick wall. But no human is anywhere close to that level of consciousness. 

Which is one of the reasons why I say that enlightenment is low consciousness. If enlightennent was high consciousness then enlightened people should be able to walk through brick walls, but they can't.

What's unique about my explanations of Consciousness is that I can explain why humans cannot walk through brick walls and also how they could. No nondual person has a good answer for this. Because they don't actually understand how consciousness works.

Actually the answer is quite simple..you do not want to exit the dream.  Otherwise you would.  You still have attachment to the dream.  That's why enlightenment isn't masamadhi.   If you could walk through walls every other aspect of the dream would also be meaningless as well...and this cannot be tolerated while the dream still has meaning.  So you keep dreaming.  Yeah - you keep throwing stuff in to make it seem real..such as pain, and suffering, and health issues, and aging..etc..and walking through walls being impossible. 

[emil1234]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I believe that if one became super-humanly conscious one could walk through a brick wall. But no human is anywhere close to that level of consciousness. 

 

i've heard several yogis reporting stuff like this. of course its just anecdotal, but still

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Inliytened1 said:

Actually the answer is quite simple..you do not want to exit the dream.  Otherwise you would.  You still have attachment to the dream.  That's why enlightenment isn't masamadhi.   If you could walk through walls every other aspect of the dream would also be meaningless as well...and this cannot be tolerated while the dream still has meaning.  So you keep dreaming.  Yeah - you keep throwing stuff in to make it seem real..such as pain, and suffering, and health issues, and aging..etc..and walking through walls being impossible. 

Yes, I agree.

But it should be possible to selectively undream some stuff.

[What Am I]

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I believe that if one became super-humanly conscious one could walk through a brick wall. But no human is anywhere close to that level of consciousness. 

Which is one of the reasons why I say that enlightenment is low consciousness. If enlightennent was high consciousness then enlightened people should be able to walk through brick walls, but they can't.

What's unique about my explanations of Consciousness is that I can explain why humans cannot walk through brick walls and also how they could. No nondual person has a good answer for this. Because they don't actually understand how consciousness works.

I'm absolutely with you on the notion that the teachers we hear about are missing a large piece of the story. And a chunk of it has to do with the full range of human potential.

What if the mechanism behind being able to walk through a brick wall or manipulate the local gravity around you (among other abilities) had a grounding in physical science? Like an electromagnetic emanation controlled via the higher functions in a human body? And what if electromagnetism, when applied in particular frequencies and amplitudes, was capable of specific extraordinary effects? Similar to how at a certain temperature, the effect of ignition and fire is produced.

I'm not a scientist, so I'm sure my use of terms is crude, but the general sentiment is all there. Does this ring any bells for anyone, or does it just sound like psycho-babble?

Edited June 22 by What Am I

[Inliytened1]

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, I agree.

But it should be possible to selectively undream some stuff.

But i think then everything would be too in front of your face that it is an illusion.   Things like your own kids would lose some realism. It might cause mental instability. Even though you know its a dream after awakening it still has a measure of "in front of your face" realism..to where you can sort of forget your own realization/lucidity that it is all your own mind.

Edited June 22 by Inliytened1

[Bufo Alvarius]

47 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I believe that if one became super-humanly conscious one could walk through a brick wall. But no human is anywhere close to that level of consciousness. 

All that wall really is, is your human avatars sensory data stream congealed/rendered into the experience of 'wall'. There really is no wall, because there is no external, physical reality that you inhabit, in the same way that there is no real wall in a computer game. 

For you to walk within your sensory data stream through the appearance of a wall, you would have to have access (higher level of consciousness) to the operating system, as if enabling the 'no clip' mod for your consciousness in this reality game.

And the only way any consciousness gets access to higher order functions, is by cooperating with the larger consciousness system, by becoming more loving and selfless and serving others to become more love. The more selfless you become, the better you become in your ability to change the probability distributions of the things that are rendered in this reality game, by using your intent.

But see, if you become so selfless, you will not care about any of those 'magic tricks' anymore, as they would probably come from a place of selfishness, to manipulate your way through this reality game. A fully selfless consciousness will be able access these higher functions, and walk over water, or change water to wine, but do so out of service to a greater goal, and in the end still die selflessly at the cross, without the need to manipulate it's way out of it.

Edited June 22 by Bufo Alvarius

[Malekakisioannis]

@Leo Gura have you ever done something utterly superhuman while superduper conscious and what was your reaction to it while doing it? Was it natural or did it surprise you? 

[Water by the River]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I believe that if one became super-humanly conscious one could walk through a brick wall. But no human is anywhere close to that level of consciousness. 

Which is one of the reasons why I say that enlightenment is low consciousness. If enlightennent was high consciousness then enlightened people should be able to walk through brick walls, but they can't.

What's unique about my explanations of Consciousness is that I can explain why humans cannot walk through brick walls and also how they could. No nondual person has a good answer for this. Because they don't actually understand how consciousness works.

There are whole realms where one can exactly do that. It is normally called Astral realms. There, the environment is thought responsive (and feeling), one can fly, walk through walls, create ones environment with intention. Not total control, but very much. The interior there has more impact on the "outer" world. Read Jurgen Ziewes books, and all the other Astral Realms experiencers. Look at the alignment. Look at these descriptions over centuries. Robert Monroes books. It is not that all of that has not found its way into the spiritual systems. Much of it has. One has to read between the lines, and look at the right places. And have an open mind.

And then there are realms where the "blueprints" for all creation are, the archetypal realms. Or Akashic records. Or however one wants to call it. Grof, Bache, Strassman, so many Buddhist and Hindu texts describing that in medieval lingo.

So much stuff you write about which you think you are the first one to see and describe has been described for centuries.

Today it is called Alien, back in the day was devas, angels, archetypal beings, deities, and what not.

You have a great way of describing all of that, with that you are right. But these realms, levels and entities have been accessed before for centuries, and the mechanisms of the universal dream and its realms have been described...Lots and lots of material on that, all centuries, all cultures.

Just an example, where do you think for example Dante had his ideas from?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_Comedy

Psychedelics of course. And traveling these realms. And giving them a christian medieval painting. 

Hildegard von Bingen. psychic and mushrooms. Last year, I walked in her decayed monastery, https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kloster_Disibodenberg, and read about her visions.

The Supreme Array Sutra

https://www.psychedelicsangha.org/paisley-gate/2019/5/8/the-supreme-array-scripture-a-psychedelic-stra-for-buddhist-psychonauts-pp3zz

The Tibetan book of the Dead. The Egyptian one.

Chris Bache, LSD and the Mind of the Universe: Diamonds from Heaven (his reality creating archetypal beings. Holons/Beings all the way up).

Grof, The Cosmic Game

Rick Strassman

Jurgen Ziewe

and so much more...

The world is and was much vaster than the usual "nondual-person"-bashing. Yes, there are "Nondualists" that I consider neither enlightened nor with a particular broad and encompassing vision of the magnificent and plentiful realms of Infinite Reality and consciousness. But look for those who traveled the Vistas of Infinity before! So much has been described, and so many geniuses have come before us. 

Like Jurgen Ziewe has said: We are always just at the beginning and are traveling the Vistas of Infinity:

Video below can be translated into english with the Youtube translation-function.

 

Ziewe also describes the reality-creating (or archetypal) realms in his books.

 

Selling Vistas of Infinity by the River

[RedLine]

7 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

There are whole realms where one can exactly do that. It is normally called Astral realms. There, the environment is thought responsive (and feeling), one can fly, walk through walls, create ones environment with intention. Not total control, but very much. The interior there has more impact on the "outer" world. Read Jurgen Ziewes books, and all the other Astral Realms experiencers. Look at the alignment. Look at these descriptions over centuries. Robert Monroes books. It is not that all of that has not found its way into the spiritual systems. Much of it has. One has to read between the lines, and look at the right places. And have an open mind.

And then there are realms where the "blueprints" for all creation are, the archetypal realms. Or Akashic records. Or however one wants to call it. Grof, Bache, Strassman, so many Buddhist and Hindu texts describing that in medieval lingo.

So much stuff you write about which you think you are the first one to see and describe has been described for centuries.

Today it is called Alien, back in the day was devas, angels, archetypal beings, deities, and what not.

You have a great way of describing all of that, with that you are right. But these realms, levels and entities have been accessed before for centuries, and the mechanisms of the universal dream and its realms have been described...Lots and lots of material on that, all centuries, all cultures.

Just an example, where do you think for example Dante had his ideas from?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_Comedy

Psychedelics of course. And traveling these realms. And giving them a christian medieval painting. 

Hildegard von Bingen. psychic and mushrooms. Last year, I walked in her decayed monastery, https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kloster_Disibodenberg, and read about her visions.

The Supreme Array Sutra

https://www.psychedelicsangha.org/paisley-gate/2019/5/8/the-supreme-array-scripture-a-psychedelic-stra-for-buddhist-psychonauts-pp3zz

The Tibetan book of the Dead. The Egyptian one.

Chris Bache, LSD and the Mind of the Universe: Diamonds from Heaven (his reality creating archetypal beings. Holons/Beings all the way up).

Grof, The Cosmic Game

Rick Strassman

Jurgen Ziewe

and so much more...

The world is and was much vaster than the usual "nondual-person"-bashing. Yes, there are "Nondualists" that I consider neither enlightened nor with a particular broad and encompassing vision of the magnificent and plentiful realms of Infinite Reality and consciousness. But look for those who traveled the Vistas of Infinity before! So much has been described, and so many geniuses have come before us. 

Like Jurgen Ziewe has said: We are always just at the beginning and are traveling the Vistas of Infinity:

Video below can be translated into english with the Youtube translation-function.

 

Ziewe also describes the reality-creating (or archetypal) realms in his books.

 

Selling Vistas of Infinity by the River

[What Am I]

@Water by the River it looks like you're into the weeds similar to myself. Haven't you ever come across the explanation of the siddhis' trigger being partially within the dream itself? Meaning it becomes an expression of a natural capability inherent to the human body. Not really different from using your muscles and coordination to throw a baseball. It's just obviously much more subtle and difficult to bring the control mechanism into awareness than mere physical movement.

[Leo Gura]

21 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

There are whole realms where one can exactly do that. It is normally called Astral realms

Of course I know about all that. You are not telling me anything new.

I have never claimed to be the first one to talk about astral realms. I don't even talk about them.

But the question still stands:

You regard yourself as enlightened. Why can't you walk through a brick wall?

- - - -

You keep regrading the things I say as tangential to consciousness, the exploration of astral realms and illusions. But that has never been what I talk about. All of my work is focused squarely on comprehension of pure Consciousness. My goal is to understand Consciousness so deeply that I could walk through a brick wall, which your enlightened smartass cannot.

Edited June 22 by Leo Gura

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I believe that if one became super-humanly conscious one could walk through a brick wall. But no human is anywhere close to that level of consciousness. 

Which is one of the reasons why I say that enlightenment is low consciousness. If enlightennent was high consciousness then enlightened people should be able to walk through brick walls, but they can't.

What's unique about my explanations of Consciousness is that I can explain why humans cannot walk through brick walls and also how they could. No nondual person has a good answer for this. Because they don't actually understand how consciousness works.

That is because enlightenment is not related to levels of consciousness, but to the opening of consciousness. Consciousness has no levels, it is what it is, total. It has more or less content. Your alien has greater content than a proton, but a proton's level of consciousness of being a proton is absolute, the same as the Alien. Only in the alien there are more things, but the substance of those things is the same. Enlightenment is being able to see through the form, and fully perceive the substance, then realize that you are the substance. Then you see that the wall and everything else is the same and it's the same go through it or not. It's just infinite, then a possibility of infinity is that you can't go through 

Edited June 22 by Breakingthewall

[What Am I]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You regard yourself as enlightened. Why can't you walk through a brick wall?

I'm not taking his side in your guys' back-and-forth here, but my answer is that it appears you can have one without the other and vice versa.

Edited June 22 by What Am I

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, What Am I said:

I'm not taking his side in your guys' back-and-forth here, but my answer is that it appears you can have one without the other and vice versa.

Why? Why aren't enlightend people omnipotent?

Consciousness is omnipotence.

Edited June 22 by Leo Gura

[Rafael Thundercat]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

All of my work is focused squarely on comprehension of pure Consciousness. My goal is to understand Consciousness so deeply that I could walk through a brick wall, which your enlightened smartass cannot.

 

[Bufo Alvarius]

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You regard yourself as enlightened. Why can't you walk through a brick wall?

Because enlightenment is but a +1 on your skill tree, giving you a little more access to all psychic abilities, besides total clarity on what you are.

This game has not been programmed for your avatar to walk through walls, but rather serves as a training ground for you as consciousness to become more love.

If you could access these higher order functions, you would have no business coming here as a human avatar anymore, but instead serve more complex/higher tier functions as an evolved consciousness.

Edited June 22 by Bufo Alvarius

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Bufo Alvarius said:

Because enlightenment is but a +1 on your skill three, giving you a little more access to all psychic abilities, besides total clarity on what you are.

This game has not been programmed for your avatar to walk through walls, but rather serves as a training ground for you as consciousness to become more love.

If you could access these higher order functions, you would have no business coming here as a human avatar anymore, but instead serve more complex/higher tier functions as an evolved consciousness.

That's a cute story. But is it really true?

Edited June 22 by Leo Gura

[Bufo Alvarius]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's a cute story. But I don't buy it.

Always remain sceptical, but open-minded