Role Of Psychedelics And Their Effects After Self-Realization: Artem Boytsov x Frank

[Ishanga]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

well, it depends. If you break your leg, yes, if your wife falsely accuses you of raping your 2-year-old son to keep your money and marry your brother, and you are sentenced to life in prison, it is more difficult. But it's possible! 

That would be painful but one go thru it and not suffer...Anything can happen in life, I'm not saying that pain is avoidable, for sure it can happen, but we don't have to suffer it, and ppl today are suffering their successes, their marriages and children that are healthy and doing the so called right things, and they still suffering, so Humans are capable of suffering most anything, so its never really the situation (unless its war or your about to be tortured or loved one is, then I can see it for sure), its about compulsive reaction, not responding, as a Human Being we have that choice to Respond and Free Will to choose our Experience of any situation...

[Osaid]

10 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

You get to a place of such consciousness you know you are alone as God in the creation therefore you Consciously modify the rules of the "dream" for some moments.

Duality.

10 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

That does not make sense either. There is a big difference between dreaming a monster is pursuing you vs actually a monster pursuing you in "real life". 

Duality.

10 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

The reason I have a certain body and you have another, is simply because of Consciousness accumulating tendencies of certain memory over and over.

No one experiences or accumulates memories. Memories by definition are happening now. Memories aren't about a past experience, that is an assumption currently made about memories, but it is not the experience of memories. There is no such thing as a memory of you being inside of a past or future.

Your idea of "liberation" is separation. THAT idea is your actual "karma." They are ideas you have which aren't truly experienced, yet you believe in them. Liberation isn't an idea about past, future, "finishing games", etc, those ideas ARE the perception of time which is your ego/karma. 

Edited June 23 by Osaid

[Breakingthewall]

14 hours ago, Ishanga said:

That would be painful but one go thru it and not suffer...Anything can happen in life, I'm not saying that pain is avoidable, for sure it can happen, but we don't have to suffer it, and ppl today are suffering their successes, their marriages and children that are healthy and doing the so called right things, and they still suffering, so Humans are capable of suffering most anything, so its never really the situation (unless its war or your about to be tortured or loved one is, then I can see it for sure), its about compulsive reaction, not responding, as a Human Being we have that choice to Respond and Free Will to choose our Experience of any situation...

Human being is full of suffering. We have moved away from the source in search of security, replacing reality, nature, god, whatever you want to call it, with society. Society protects us and deforms us. Thousands of generations, real genetic evolution, make us closed, suffering beings.

Being human is very good for humanity as a whole, and really shitty for the individual. everyone is crazy. All relationships are toxic. human reality drinks from suffering and dysfunction to prosper and evolve

[Water by the River]

21 hours ago, RedLine said:

If those realms have ontological substance beyong the ego then please explain how is that after the ego is dissolved, the experiences of that realms are not experienced anymore.

For Jurgen Ziewe these experiencing realms continued after Enlightenment. Same for example with Haari Aalto. And I guess for most having had these experiences naturally they continue, that is what at least most having these experiences and Enlightenment report. But that is not a rule/law, see below.

Its all dreamstuff, including the ego. Normal life, dreams, Astral, whatever. All dreamstuff. There is nothing else, nor can't be. Some more structured and shared consensual realms, other just normal dreams with no . Our world is just highly structured, and exceptions to the cosmic habits ("wonders") not so frequent.

But not everone has these OBEs, visions and what not.

For some the visions cease after Enlightenment, for some not.

21 hours ago, RedLine said:

If they are structures of Reality (as you claim) and not of the self, then it should be possible to experience it both when self condition mateiral is present and after conditioning has been cleared; but it is not the case for the second one. Suspicious don´t you think? If the higher buddhist and advaita achievers thell you to forget about that BS is for a reason, they are ego hallucinations.

One shouldn't get fascinated by this stuff, and pursue True Infinite Being directly. But if these experiences/visions continue, and are not grasped at (like in the case of Jurgen Ziewe), its not a hindrance.

[Davino]

18 hours ago, gettoefl said:

jesus said just have faith the size of a mustard seed and you will command these mountains move and they have to obey

I think that is one of the most badass sentences Jesus said

I also like the one: Heaven and earth will pass away, but the Truth I speak will never perish.

[Rafael Thundercat]

Guys here maybe in need of a good Backlash to see things clearly and let go with conceptualization. A good ego backlash will bring things home and cut out the BS.

Tricks all way down

 

[SkyGuardian]

On 6/20/2024 at 11:28 AM, SkyGuardian said:

My friend made a video after having the Nonduality round table where it was a gathering of "enlightened masters" looks like he had addressed Artem here is the exact timestamp:
 

 

I would like to say that Rahul addressed the audience not Artem directly Rahul declined to speak to Artem directly. I do not take any sides I shared this video because I enjoy many points made by Rahul in regards to enlightenment.

[BlessedLion]

Frank Yang gives me mad sleazy vibes 

[Spiral Wizard]

On 6/9/2024 at 9:52 AM, Leo Gura said:

Nonsense. No amount of meditation equals psychedelic consciousness.

These guys are nowhere as conscious as psychedelics make me. And no amount of talk will ever change that.

If you can walk straight and talk straight that proves you aren't very conscious.

Just because psychedelics stop working on you is not proof of anything profound. And it certainly isn't proof of high consciousness or that you have maxed consciousness out. Thinking that is a prime example of the kind of shallow mindlessness that nondualists are gulity of and why all forms of human spirituality are rat level.

@Leo Gura have you considered that when you can adjust to certain states over years as your nervous system adjust? Also, states can soften and integrate into deeper peace instead of crazy ecstasy and overwhelming light that makes you unable to walk and talk. I know a few yogis who had a phase of being unable to function and then later integrated in that way. Last but not least, the reason why they don't experiance an effect from psychedelics anymore might NOT be because they are in the 'highest state' but because of the following reason:

I learned that the highs and lows are like an oscillation or amplitude of consciousness and enlightenment is the collapse of that. So each high or low is a pushing against the baseline/straight line, it's a pushing below it or pushing above it, the distance from the base line in the middle reflects the increasing amount of resistance which is in between the two lines and makes it more obvious the bigger it gets, which is exactly what happens as we progress on the spiritual path, the highs and lows get bigger until we see the resistance that creates them clearly and surrender all resistance. With that the oscillation of highs and lows end and the amplitude collapses.

This goes hand in hand with what Frank says that tripping and bliss is just a byproduct of clearing out conditioning. Because once conditioning is cleared, there is no more resistance.

Meaning, when you are enlightened you are not in a peak state like on psychedelics as that is one extreme of the polarity and actually a form of resistance to what is. So then the collapse of polarity & duality puts you in the most sober state because you are fully in touch with your reality without resisting the mundane which is actually extraordinary in comparison to the normal/average ego state.

Bottom line, yes psychedelics might make you more conscious in an isolated way but it's a refusal to accept your position in the grand scheme of things. There's a reason why we were born human and not SUPER CONSCIOUS ALIEN 👽 and enlightenment is a complete surrender and alignment with what our reality is, right now, not as our identity wants it to be. Right now, if you want it or not, a part of you is a limited human. What do you do with that? Deny it, reject it? Try to get away from it? Well, if so, good luck with hitting your head against the wall of limitation because the only way out is through.

Also, simply stay true to your path and experience the consequences. That's the best we can do and life will course correct us with pain and/or death in due time. So fully enjoy your creation and savour it for it is you and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Let me know if that possibility and perspective resonates or makes sense at all. Not asserting it as absolute truth, just as relative wisdom.

 

 

Edited July 18 by Spiral Wizard

[Javfly33]

On 23/06/2024 at 11:14 PM, Osaid said:

 

No one experiences or accumulates memories. Memories by definition are happening now. Memories aren't about a past experience, that is an assumption currently made about memories, but it is not the experience of memories. There is no such thing as a memory of you being inside of a past or future.
 

@Osaid I´m not talking about psychological memories or thoughts.

The fact that you have a human body now is because of karmic memory. 

 

Your body is a certain patter of energy and memory written in Creation. 

How come you can not explain to me why you experience a certain body?

 

Your non duality narrative can not explain why, can it? 

I can explain to you why exactly I have the body I have, I was born with a certain parents, why my skin is white...everything. Is not random. Nothing is random. 

 

I know you are very sure you have understand what this game and dream is, but I´m telling you is not as simplistic as you think it is. Nowhere near. 

Quote

Your idea of "liberation" is separation.

No, my idea of Liberation is stopping the cycles of entanglement with memory. 

But you are not nowhere near this level of understanding with your simplistic non duality.

Is Ok, everyone goes at his own pace. 

Quote

THAT idea is your actual "karma."

No. Is not like that. You still think I´m talking about something psychological.

Your body IS KARMA. That´s what duality is. 

 

You can not be preaching about my statements being 'duality' or not, yet you do not understand what really your very human body is. 

Edited July 18 by Javfly33

[Osaid]

10 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

How come you can not explain to me why you experience a certain body?

There's nothing separate from the body experiencing a body. Thus the question doesn't make sense. There's no one separate from a body experiencing a body which could accumulate separate things.

The question is false because it is asking about something which is never perceived. Like asking "Why is the sky green? Explain it to me!"

Divisions don't explain divisions, they just create more divisions to be perceived.

Thoughts don't explain thoughts, because there's nothing separate from the thought to be explained. 

10 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

I can explain to you why exactly I have the body I have, I was born with a certain parents, why my skin is white...everything

The explanation happens now, so no one experiences what the explanation is describing. Meaning, there isn't anyone from the past who is here experiencing the explanation.

If you do a genuine surveillance with your other senses, this is very obvious. But there is a confusion that happens with thoughts.

For example, there is no such thing as seeing in the past. There isn't a seer which can be seen, there isn't a hearer which can be heard, etc. All the senses are self-contained perceptions which only ever occur now. When it comes to thinking, there is an error which says that there is a thinker which can be thought of, which is not actually true. The thinker is never experienced because it is a belief.

10 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

I know you are very sure you have understand what this game and dream is

Understanding is separation. It is a narrative. Narratives are about separate things, because they describe things.

"Non-dual" isn't a narrative, it says no one experiences narratives.

You say you understand, I say no one understands. 

You say you experiences narratives, like past, birth, body, etc. Those are the divisions which are two, and not non-dual.

10 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

No, my idea of Liberation is stopping the cycles of entanglement with memory.

Who is entangled with memory? There's nothing separate from the memory which is also memory. Thus there is nothing separate to be entangled with anything.

Again, it is obvious with all the other senses, but thoughts and memory create a belief in a separate self which is never actually experienced.

10 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

Your body IS KARMA. That´s what duality is. 

 

You can not be preaching about my statements being 'duality' or not, yet you do not understand what really your very human body is. 

Duality is the belief that someone is owning your body.

"My body"? What's separate from the body? 

If the body is seen, can you see the seer?

If the body is heard, can you hear the hearer?

If the body is touched, can you touch the toucher?

Look at your perception.

Edited July 18 by Osaid