Role Of Psychedelics And Their Effects After Self-Realization: Artem Boytsov x Frank

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, Osaid said:

You can walk through all the walls you want, that doesn't mean you understand what your conscious experience is. It is completely irrelevant to enlightenment. If someone hypothetically gained that ability in the real world, it would say nothing about their intelligence/understanding/cognition lmao. This is so silly. You can probably even do that while dreaming or astral projecting (apparently low states of consciousness?). It literally means nothing.
 

That does not make sense. 

You don´t gain that ability.

You get to a place of such consciousness you know you are alone as God in the creation therefore you Consciously modify the rules of the "dream" for some moments.

 

Quote

 You can probably even do that while dreaming

That does not make sense either. There is a big difference between dreaming a monster is pursuing you vs actually a monster pursuing you in "real life". 

 

In summary, I would say with the definition of Enlightment you have, that is not liberation at all.

Most people who think they are enlightened, will reincarnate. 

Because enlightment is not just about what awakening, is about separating/untangling yourself with all the memory you have gathered from the process of Creation. 

 

You guys do not even imagine how deep the entanglement of Consciousness with memory goes. It goes from the Big Bang.

You have been accumulating memory over and over. And now you expect to end the work with just an enlightment experience.

No, it goes way way beyond that. A lot more dissolution of your Rules need to happen if you want to finish this game. 

[Breakingthewall]

16 minutes ago, Bufo Alvarius said:

They are indeed natural phenomena, and I would like to propose the view, that they can be indeed understood.

Tom Campbell, in his trology 'My big Theory of Everything' (see here), lays out a framework for how this local consciousness system, that we inhabit, works, and how phenomena, such as remote viewing, astral travel and telepathy are a natural byproduct of the structure of such a consciousness system. It also teaches you, how you can make use of these techniques, so that you as consciousness, can navigate the larger system for yourself, and discover how it works, and come to your own conclusions.

It basically boils down to everything being Consciousness, as in one interconnected, conscious system, where you, as a piece of that larger consciousness system, can access all information that are available to such a system.

Agree with that vision. No with the limited and therefore false vision of: I am creating reality, which is a dream and has no existence of its own.

[Javfly33]

Is like this:

@Osaid The reason I have a certain body and you have another, is simply because of Consciousness accumulating tendencies of certain memory over and over.

If I just drop the memory, I lose the body and I don´t come back as anything in this creation. 

 

To get to such a place, a lot more than just normal enlightment is needed. 

 

Dissolving into this present experience is more radical and requires more intensity of consciousness than even going through a brick wall.

 

That´s why I don't see Leo claim weird at all. If they think that is weird wait until they discover what is needed for the supreme dissolution. 

[Water by the River]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Water by the River The issue with everything you said is that it admits that there exists consciousness higher than your own. Which most enlightened folk and nondualists would like to deny.

So you are trying to have it both ways. When I claim higher consciousness, you ridicule and deny it. But when I corner you about why you cannot walk through a brick wall, you tell tall-tales of higher Buddhas and astral deities in other dimensions. And you plead human finitude.

You justify your limited human dream as being necessary and enjoying it. But when I speak of pursing and enjoying higher consciousness you dismiss and ridicule it as something indulgent or misguided.

So all this means that you are an enlightened bullshitter. Your spiritual bullshit is precisely designed to prevent higher consciousness. And THAT is the reason why I teach in the manner that I teach.

I do not care about tales of astral realms. I asked you why you cannot walk through a brick wall on Earth. And the only plausible answer is: because you lack consciousness.

If enlightened people would just admit that they occupy a low state of rat consciousness then I would never say a single bad thing against them. But that is the last thing they want to admit. So here we are.

I hope now everyone is crystal clear on this matter. I will not be wasting any more of my time explaining myself to you.

Oh well. Enlightenment still is something fundamentally different than all your levels of consciousness OF. Its of a different category than „levels“ of consciousness (of).

Then your readers can choose between hugging the elephant in 30 hugs (or n plus 1) and interpreting and projecting that on a remaining separate Self and yearning of hugging and becoming the „biggest elephant“ in order to have bliss.

Or instead truly realizing and becoming the Infinite Elephant/Being. Of which there is only one.

Feeling like Leo or feeling like Sat Chit Ananda. Well, it’s a free country.

Selling Rodent Consciousness by the River 

 

[Purple Man]

5 hours ago, Water by the River said:

Why is it difficult to explain why humans or enlightened humans can not walk through walls? I see absolutely no problem in doing that, see below.

It is possible. In certain realms, like Astral realms. Which shows very easily it is possible - in some realms. Some beings can even do it in this realm (Vallee, Passport to magonia).

The Astral Realms teach exactly that: That "rules" or "physical" "laws" can be broken (or rather can be different or realm-specific habits (!) of the appearing realm/universe), anything is possible (because its all imagined)... All of that becomes totally clear when experiencing these higher realms (which Wilber for example calls subtle levels).

Look it up in the Lankavatara-Sutra for example, and others. Cosmic(realm specific) habits and archetypes, imagined by Infinite Consciousness/Universal Mind.

These answers are clear for that which many call "nondual person"  (which is a funny contradiction in itself, but that is another topic) if its an enlightened one. There is only Infinite Being/Universal Mind/"consciousness-stuff-appearance".

Enlightenment = Its all imagined as mere appearance in Infinite Being, or Universal Mind as Huang Po called it. Its totally clear that any appearance can happen anytime, even when the habit of this life/realm tends to be very structured with certain rules/patterns. For other realms, that doesn't apply. Different habits. A dream is no less real than waking life, just less structured and no consistent background story (hey, how did I get here and where did I park my car). But made out of the same imagined "mere-appearance"-"substance" which is not different form Infinite Consciousness (hence nondual). Its not "out-there", its Universal-Mind-"stuff".

That becomes totally clear with Enlightenment. Groundless mere appearance, "hovering" in the vastness "of" Infinite Being, the Totality of Existence, or the only Infinite Reality/Existence/Being there is and ever could be. Or ones true Infinite Being. And no separate anything, but just an imagined apparently "separate" center/perceiver, which can drop and disappear anytime, restoring the orginal state of boundless Infinite Being or the Totality of Existence. That clears all these questions and points. Not by 30 facets & hugging the elephant for a short time of "AWAKENING" and then saying sayonara dear elephant, but at once, becoming truly the Elephant/Totality of Existence, besides which nothing can exist. Infinite.

This realm is a structured dream. Physical laws, or better habits, are not easily broken. That is the essence of this game here. If it would be a chaotic soup, wouldn't be too much fun, would it?

And who structures this realm and its habits/patterns/rules/"physical laws", against which consciousness/intent/being you have no chance imagining going through the walls as human? To read about these beings/holons/deities/whatever (biiiig Aliens) holding whole universes in their being, read for example Chris Bache, LSD and the Mind of the Universe: Diamonds from Heaven. Have you read that? There is some stuff inside that you don't talk or write about. And what kind of being manages a "Buddha-field" (aka a Universe-Realm) in later Buddhism (Supreme-Array-Sutra): A cosmic Buddha. In western mysticism language a certain archetype. A deity. Whatever name is used. Holons all the way up, all the way down. And up its up to Infinity!

Buddha-field/Universe-realm-beings creating, maintaining and containing all universe-realm inside themselves, other beings containing clusters of these, and so on and so on, up to Infinity. Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva for example. Thousands names have been used by humanity. Don't be surprised if the "aliens" you have accessed at some point look like the little brother to one of these...

But these universe-containing/manifesting/sustaining beings/archetypes are also nothing other than Infinite Being, a certain (although) larger perspective in Indras Net. The SAME Awareness/Reality/Infinite Being that looks through the eyes of all beings. Just different content (universes)/appearances, or consciousnesses OF. There are not many "Awarenesses", or "consciousnesses". Not two. Indras Net of perspectives or holons, all the way down, all the way up to Infinity. One Universal Infinite Mind splicing itself up to different perspectives (large and small), creating these magnificent realms and Vistas of Infinities, and forgetting in real time all other perspectives in order to play a game of limitation.

Infinity, hm 

I am not in a hurry to become an Alien, or one of these archetypal beings containing realms, or anything else. Why? The point of the ride is the ride. The point of being limited human is being limited human, and enjoying it. Which becomes possible once one has realized ones True Being, or else the doom of finitude, mortality and not knowing what the show really is takes the enjoyment away. Stabilizing that is the Summum Bonum. And having done that, from that base maybe go wave-surfing in the Vistas of Infinity. But from a perspective of abundance and happiness, and not scarcity and wishing-to-rather-be-something-else.

Selling "not trying walking through walls in this life cause ones head may hurt later" but instead relaxing by the River and selling you know what 

 

This is one of the clearest, deepest buy playful, serious but joyful posts you´ve ever written in this forum, and you´ve written quite a lot of clear, deep,
playful, serious, joyful stuff.

Yes, the harder the anchor in/as the Absolute, the freer the individual relative perspective and smaller the sense of urgency for new relative body-mind perspectives. That is the proper Hierarchy of Reality. As John Wren Lewis implied in the most herculean feat in the History of Mysticism, that of resuming that Hierarchy in two words, "Eternity John-ning" (just substitute "John" with any particular avatar the Absolute emanates in a particular incarnation), it only takes turning "John", or any other apparently solid entity, into a gerund (that is, an "action"), substracting with this simple trick ontology and Identity from the particular avatar (human or not) which most take themselves to be, and placing them into the Impersonal Absolute.

Edited June 23 by Purple Man

[CARDOZZO]

The real issue is knowing how to discern real spiritual growth vs spiritual fantasy.

The path is not clear, full of traps, false teachings, false gurus and bypassing.

 

[Ishanga]

2 minutes ago, CARDOZZO said:

The real issue is knowing how to discern real spiritual growth vs spiritual fantasy.

The path is not clear, full of traps, false teachings, false gurus and bypassing.

 

How does One know they are intouch with Truth, its really easy and  not complex, You will be much Happier within Yourself when Your intouch with Truth, if Your really close to it then no suffering will happen within You, yes pain exists, you can still break a leg when Enlightened and feel the pain, but Your in realization that You are not the Body or Mind, so its not as bad as one that is super identified with Body/Mind, its like someone destroying their new lambo they have been saving up for ever, they will suffer that loss because it is them that is destroyed, go beyond that sort of thing and suffering will not happen, therefore You are intouch with Truth, its simple to know,..It seems many here are still suffering, including Leo, so is he intouch with Truth?????

[UnbornTao]

3 hours ago, CARDOZZO said:

The real issue is knowing how to discern real spiritual growth vs spiritual fantasy.

The path is not clear, full of traps, false teachings, false gurus and bypassing.

Listen, guys. Wisdom.

Another thing: people will eat up anything that sounds good and validates their preconceptions. 

Edited June 23 by UnbornTao

[Davino]

You can't walk through a brick wall because of Physics!

[What Am I]

After all this, it's pretty obvious that talking about siddhis or anything besides just meditating/tripping into higher states of consciousness is a fruitless activity on this forum. It'll go around in circles worse than other topics, because it'll just be the blind leading the blind. We should do what spiritual teachers have suggested throughout time (including Leo), and ignore these things while focusing our aims towards higher consciousness, which we can at least all agree actually exists.

Edited June 23 by What Am I

[An young being]

19 minutes ago, Davino said:

You can't walk through a brick wall because of Physics!

Unless you immerse yourself completely in a video game just like you are doing in life!

[RedLine]

7 hours ago, Water by the River said:

Why is it difficult to explain why humans or enlightened humans can not walk through walls? I see absolutely no problem in doing that, see below.

It is possible. In certain realms, like Astral realms. Which shows very easily it is possible - in some realms. Some beings can even do it in this realm (Vallee, Passport to magonia).

The Astral Realms teach exactly that: That "rules" or "physical" "laws" can be broken (or rather can be different or realm-specific habits (!) of the appearing realm/universe), anything is possible (because its all imagined)... All of that becomes totally clear when experiencing these higher realms (which Wilber for example calls subtle levels).

Look it up in the Lankavatara-Sutra for example, and others. Cosmic(realm specific) habits and archetypes, imagined by Infinite Consciousness/Universal Mind.

These answers are clear for that which many call "nondual person"  (which is a funny contradiction in itself, but that is another topic) if its an enlightened one. There is only Infinite Being/Universal Mind/"consciousness-stuff-appearance".

Enlightenment = Its all imagined as mere appearance in Infinite Being, or Universal Mind as Huang Po called it. Its totally clear that any appearance can happen anytime, even when the habit of this life/realm tends to be very structured with certain rules/patterns. For other realms, that doesn't apply. Different habits. A dream is no less real than waking life, just less structured and no consistent background story (hey, how did I get here and where did I park my car). But made out of the same imagined "mere-appearance"-"substance" which is not different form Infinite Consciousness (hence nondual). Its not "out-there", its Universal-Mind-"stuff".

That becomes totally clear with Enlightenment. Groundless mere appearance, "hovering" in the vastness "of" Infinite Being, the Totality of Existence, or the only Infinite Reality/Existence/Being there is and ever could be. Or ones true Infinite Being. And no separate anything, but just an imagined apparently "separate" center/perceiver, which can drop and disappear anytime, restoring the orginal state of boundless Infinite Being or the Totality of Existence. That clears all these questions and points. Not by 30 facets & hugging the elephant for a short time of "AWAKENING" and then saying sayonara dear elephant, but at once, becoming truly the Elephant/Totality of Existence, besides which nothing can exist. Infinite.

This realm is a structured dream. Physical laws, or better habits, are not easily broken. That is the essence of this game here. If it would be a chaotic soup, wouldn't be too much fun, would it?

And who structures this realm and its habits/patterns/rules/"physical laws", against which consciousness/intent/being you have no chance imagining going through the walls as human? To read about these beings/holons/deities/whatever (biiiig Aliens) holding whole universes in their being, read for example Chris Bache, LSD and the Mind of the Universe: Diamonds from Heaven. Have you read that? There is some stuff inside that you don't talk or write about. And what kind of being manages a "Buddha-field" (aka a Universe-Realm) in later Buddhism (Supreme-Array-Sutra): A cosmic Buddha. In western mysticism language a certain archetype. A deity. Whatever name is used. Holons all the way up, all the way down. And up its up to Infinity!

Buddha-field/Universe-realm-beings creating, maintaining and containing all universe-realm inside themselves, other beings containing clusters of these, and so on and so on, up to Infinity. Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva for example. Thousands names have been used by humanity. Don't be surprised if the "aliens" you have accessed at some point look like the little brother to one of these...

But these universe-containing/manifesting/sustaining beings/archetypes are also nothing other than Infinite Being, a certain (although) larger perspective in Indras Net. The SAME Awareness/Reality/Infinite Being that looks through the eyes of all beings. Just different content (universes)/appearances, or consciousnesses OF. There are not many "Awarenesses", or "consciousnesses". Not two. Indras Net of perspectives or holons, all the way down, all the way up to Infinity. One Universal Infinite Mind splicing itself up to different perspectives (large and small), creating these magnificent realms and Vistas of Infinities, and forgetting in real time all other perspectives in order to play a game of limitation.

Infinity, hm 

I am not in a hurry to become an Alien, or one of these archetypal beings containing realms, or anything else. Why? The point of the ride is the ride. The point of being limited human is being limited human, and enjoying it. Which becomes possible once one has realized ones True Being, or else the doom of finitude, mortality and not knowing what the show really is takes the enjoyment away. Stabilizing that is the Summum Bonum. And having done that, from that base maybe go wave-surfing in the Vistas of Infinity. But from a perspective of abundance and happiness, and not scarcity and wishing-to-rather-be-something-else.

Selling "not trying walking through walls in this life cause ones head may hurt later" but instead relaxing by the River and selling you know what 

 

If those realms have ontological substance beyong the ego then please explain how is that after the ego is dissolved, the experiences of that realms are not experienced anymore.

If they are structures of Reality (as you claim) and not of the self, then it should be possible to experience it both when self condition mateiral is present and after conditioning has been cleared; but it is not the case for the second one. Suspicious don´t you think? If the higher buddhist and advaita achievers thell you to forget about that BS is for a reason, they are ego hallucinations.

 

 

 

Edited June 23 by RedLine

[Breakingthewall]

5 hours ago, Ishanga said:

How does One know they are intouch with Truth, its really easy and  not complex, You will be much Happier within Yourself when Your intouch with Truth, if Your really close to it then no suffering will happen within You, yes pain exists, you can still break a leg when Enlightened and feel the pain, but Your in realization that You are not the Body or Mind, so its not as bad as one that is super identified with Body/Mind, its like someone destroying their new lambo they have been saving up for ever, they will suffer that loss because it is them that is destroyed, go beyond that sort of thing and suffering will not happen, therefore You are intouch with Truth, its simple to know,..It seems many here are still suffering, including Leo, so is he intouch with Truth?????

well, it depends. If you break your leg, yes, if your wife falsely accuses you of raping your 2-year-old son to keep your money and marry your brother, and you are sentenced to life in prison, it is more difficult. But it's possible! 

Edited June 23 by Breakingthewall

[gettoefl]

jesus said just have faith the size of a mustard seed and you will command these mountains move and they have to obey

faith is to cotton on to the idea that all mountains are figments of my imagination

mountains are the barriers between me and me brother, what keeps us in separate worlds

only the influencers du jour are keen on walking through a mountain; i am more intent on melting it away to behold no gaps between us

the dream here has one purpose, to bring it to its conclusion; i still have fun and enjoy and marvel but i don't overlook the job i came for

and unless i bring someone home i will keep coming back here until i do

i should remember that line for pickup 😂

Edited June 23 by gettoefl

[An young being]

21 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

well, it depends. If you break your leg, yes, if your wife falsely accuses you of raping your 2-year-old son to keep your money and marry your brother, and you are sentenced to life in prison, it is more difficult. But it's possible! 

Easy when you are enlightened!

[Yimpa]

My partner is a powerful psychedelic. Use with caution!

[Breakingthewall]

3 minutes ago, An young being said:

Easy when you are enlightened!

Exactly. Being enlightened is perceiving the true nature of reality, no more. Then you will see that the jail is the pure light of love, absolute fullness. It's nothing related with "levels of conciousness", it's about open your perception. 

[Dazgwny]

I’ve pondered on this walking through walls thing a lot in the past and I ran into some paradoxes but for myself I did come to a conclusion that has personally satisfied myself. No I can’t walk through walls😂 but I have in many lucid dreams and astral projection. That aside, during an awakening trip once I completely stopped time, the universe brought to a complete stand still, from my perspective. Now nobody else would have experienced this stand still along with myself. My totally elevated state of consciousness enabled this to be the case for me. And as it was also completely unbelievably solipsistic then there was no other to experience it anyway. That being said, the point being if I actually became conscious enough to walk through a wall, then anybody else would not be able to see it, not from their limited ordinary state of consciousness. And vice versa, if Leo or anybody claimed to myself that they had become conscious enough at some point and they had infact walked through a wall then I would not be at a sufficient enough level of consciousness to visibly see them walk through a wall. My limited state does not allow for me to walk through walls, or even see anybody else walk through a wall. Even a recording just would not work. Because in such a state whatever that might be like, once someone returned from that state to an ordinary state the ordinary states individual is not going to see anything other than a recording of a solid consistently physical world. I’ve read salvia trip reports where people have said became part of a wall, stuck in the wall, as the wall. But no recording would show this. It is a very paradoxical situation. It’s not a logical conclusion. It even sounds very fantastical, fantasy land. But given i already understand through direct experience that reality is paradoxical you can not escape paradox if you delve deep enough into your mind and reality. For me personally this has satisfied me as a conclusion as to why I can’t personally walk through walls, nor can I ever see anybody else walk through a wall, even if they claimed to have done at some point. It all stems down to my very own state of consciousness. Which ordinarily is far to low

[Yimpa]

 

[Breakingthewall]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

enlightened people would just admit that they occupy a low state of rat consciousness then I would never say a single bad thing against them. But that is the last thing they want to admit. So here we are.

7 hours ago, CARDOZZO said:

 

Enlightenment could be a low state of consciousness. Like just realize the substance of the reality and don't know anything, like a mental retarded, then you are right, but you could be totally enlightened and work in a wide level of consciousness. Enlightenment is the open perception to what reality is. Everything else is just interesting things, curiosities. Enlightenment means that for you is exactly the same go through the wall or not, or have cancer or not. Obviously, almost nobody is fully enlightened, but be open to the light is essential if you want a minimum level of happiness