Role Of Psychedelics And Their Effects After Self-Realization: Artem Boytsov x Frank

[Water by the River]

20 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You can't be Awake and maintain materialism.

Agree with that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism

[Evan Gill]

17 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I am not infinitely conscious right now.

But I don't need to be in order to understand that you are in a dream.

It's not like I'm saying anything that serious spiritual traditions haven't said. You've been told that reality is a dream by every major serious spiritual tradition. The Hindus have been saying it for 5000 years. What more do you want?

My teachings do not contradict any serious spiritual teachings. The only difference is that I give you the 100% undiluted version of it, without sugarcoating anything or playing to any of your human biases.

I don't assign any special priority to our physical universe/dream. You could dream an infinite number of various dreams. Just because you're not dreaming some particular dream right this second doesn't mean you cannot dream it in the future.

Yes, some people can do astral travel.

@Leo Gura I am curious.. how do you think the Hindus figured this out? They most likely weren't taking Psychedelics. Did they achieve it through meditation alone?

Edited June 22 by Evan Gill

[emil1234]

11 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

From what I have seen/read, they both state "Infinite Reality". Totality of Existence in Artems language. And more than enough Infinity in Franks language.

I personally prefer another style of language, but I don't have the impression they reject oneness, or Infinite Reality, or Nondual boundless Being.

True Nonduality is Oneness. And to throw away the concept of Oneness: One without a second.

yea well, either way i guess it wouldn't be too odd if people reported different states of consciousness, even after full enlightenment, since brain chemistry undeniably shapes perception of reality

[Water by the River]

17 hours ago, Bufo Alvarius said:

is just a fabrication of the mind, and has no reality onto itself.

Like any appearing realm. Just fabrication of mind. Different levels of consistency of the dream. But all dream-stuff. Mere appearance. Including the dreamer. 

With no inherent reality onto itself (The reality of the ring is the gold. The ring has no inherent reality beyond the current form the gold takes).

Relative appearing reality (ring), not absolute Reality (gold).

The Absolute/Infinite Being IS the reality of the appearing. All appearing is temporary, changing, ultimately unreal and just morphing/changing/appearing.

Dreamstuff. Suchness. Mere appearance. Illusion, yet appearing. 

"In" what does all of that arise? "Before" or "in" "which" does this whole show appear, from deep sleep, dream, "waking", death, birth, Awakening and sleeping, Illusion and Enlightenment. Who or what is the Reality of dream and dreamer?

What is the eternally unchanging spaceless Infinite Absolute Reality of all of that? What is that Infinite Being, that Infinite Reality in which all of that appears, but which can NEVER be found as object, or anything that can be described in positive terms because that would limit it. Which can only be realized by BEING it?

Who is reading these words again?

 

And nobody say Raspberry now 

[Water by the River]

3 minutes ago, Evan Gill said:

@Leo Gura I am curious.. how do you think the Hindus figured this out? They most likely weren't taking Psychedelics. Did they achieve it through meditation alone?

They were taking tons of psychedelics.  Soma.

Secret Drugs Of Buddhism, Mike Crowley

But they also figured it out using meditation.

[emil1234]

3 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

"In" what does all of that arise? "Before" or "in" "which" does this whole show appear, from deep sleep, dream, "waking", death, birth, Awakening and sleeping, Illusion and Enlightenment. Who or what is the Reality of dream and dreamer?

this is indeed a very good question. i will be dwelling on this for weeks to come.

[Water by the River]

1 hour ago, emil1234 said:

yea well, either way i guess it wouldn't be too odd if people reported different states of consciousness, even after full enlightenment, since brain chemistry undeniably shapes perception of reality

Yes. Enlightenment means (to use the words of Ralston) knowing what you truly (and eternally) are, and what Reality is. The "substance" of YOU, and the "substance" of Reality.

Beyond that, one can have an endless variety.

Wilber when asked what do you know what the Buddha didn't? How to drive a Jeep.

Edited June 22 by Water by the River

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Evan Gill said:

@Leo Gura I am curious.. how do you think the Hindus figured this out? They most likely weren't taking Psychedelics. Did they achieve it through meditation alone?

Hindus took weed and datura, and who knows what else. Magic mushrooms grow on all continents except antarctica so it's safe to assume they ate them too.

But none of that is even needed because a certain percentage of humans are born awakened and mystical. So the real answer is just genetics.

Edited June 22 by Leo Gura

[Someone here]

3 hours ago, BlessedLion said:

That’s not what Leo is pointing at. It’s that you are the dreamer but the dreamer is Nothingness, not another seperate being in another bed. There’s Nothing here

I know ..I'm just teasing Leo hehe

[emil1234]

@Leo Gura have u ever experienced anything supernatural on psychedelics? ESP like

 

[Bufo Alvarius]

2 hours ago, Water by the River said:

Put 10 people having realized their nature in one room, and they will all use different language. But he doesn't mean a material/physical universe external or separate from him. He means nondual. How one calls the "dreamstuff" or mere appearance of manifestation is not so important.

 

@Water by the River They will not just use different language. Their worldview and belief system will be baked into their meta perspective on what reality is and how it works, and through that perspective, their enlightenment will be additionally interpreted. If you read Artem closely, it is obvious to the trained eye, that he gets all the 'qualities/fundamentals' of full enlightenment right, basically collapsing all identification mechanisms, until there is only the totality of existence left. But then he fuses that with his worldview, of being a body within an infinite, material/energy universe. For Artem, that body (his body) is itself part of everything else, there are technically no boundaries between any matter/energy objects. He is within that universe and from it/part of it. No governing principles acting from outside on that universe, that kind of universe is governing itself from within, it is deterministic, because it has to build on itself in an infinite regress of causalities.

That is very different to a worldview, in which you, as Infinite Consciousness, operate as a larger system, with many subsystems (holons within holons) and conscious agents (that you as the larger Consciousness have divided yourself into), that can interact with these sub-systems. In that paradigm, you would have one part of consciousness run a reality simulation (e.g. a physical or non-physical reality frame/dream) like a server, to which part of your conscious agents could log on, by receiving data/information streams. The conscious agent (basically a piece of the larger consciousness) is obviously not going anywhere from A to B, it's already floating nowhere, no when, always here now, receiving (in the case of a human being avatar) sense data of smell, touch, hearing, sight, touch, that is creating a 3D world (like Earth). Collapsing that sense data (like you can in deep meditation), would again reveal your true nature, as pure awarness floating in/as the infinte void. So you can actually field test that theorie. That's why there is also no world beyond your sensory bubble, there really is no external material world, there is only 10 billion consciousnesses, floating in the void, receiving (human) sense data streams of what is rendered into our current earth experience.

Bashar also confirms this perspective, by saying that you are not in this world, because you have never left spirit ( the non-physical). Instead you operate from spirit, being tuned into this holographic (seemingly material) universe/simulation. What appears as physical reality is in fact non-physical reality, with the difference, that the rule set is much more strict in this dream, and you for example, cannot fly through walls.  The rule set is obviously not upheld by you, the consciousness that is logged on to the 5 senses data stream of the avatar, but by some higher funtion consciousness-algorithm/operating system, which again is not really separate from you. Just you, as a limited unit of consciousness, have not the admin rights to interfere with that operating system (unless you maybe take enough 5meo-dmt and get a glimpse, how part of your higher order functioning consciousness is creating this simulation/dream). While logged on to the 5 senses data stream of the avatar, you can only play by the rules of the server, and play within this material plane, until maybe one day, you become your own whole universe/server, if you as consciousness have evolved enough. Bashar also supports that view, that you as consciousness are always becoming more of yourself, that that is the whole point of existence. It's not static, it's always becoming ever more.

So again, from this worldview, you are in this world (by receiving 5 senses data stream of the avatar) but you are not of it. Big difference! That way, dreams, Astral travel, different reality frames are not just figments of the bodies mind function (like they have to be, in Artems materialistic world view), but they are legitimate/equal playingfields to that of the material plane we are experiencing. All those reality frames are of course just different data streams/imaginations, that you as consciousness can log on to (see also reality shifting). Nothing is ever going anywhere, it's just like changing channels on a TV.

The reason I want to emphasize the difference between these two world views, is because it actually takes you away from a reductionistic world view to a more holistic, expanded perspective, that is inherently more meaningful, than what Artem proposes. I would propagate, that giving one a meaningful, holistic perspective, alongside with the tools that will take you to full enlightenment, is far more beneficial for the whole of humanity, than giving guidance to an enlightenment, that is baked into a reductionistic, nihilistic world view. The first one will get you excited, the second one will make you feel depressed along the way.

On a side note, Chris Bache, in his book 'LSD and the Mind of the Universe', has given by far the most splendid, beautiful, wholesome and awe inspiring worldview to where we, as a collective human organism/consciousness, are navigating towards. I had tears in my eyes reading his description of the potential, that we, as a human race, have. That's the true power of having a great vision and a meta view, that aims to allign itself with the highest/most wholesome understanding of reality.

Edited June 22 by Bufo Alvarius

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, questionreality said:

But aren't you also a human that is speaking about spirituality? And you think you are the only human to get it? 

I am not the only one to get it. But I get it in an usually deep, multi-faceted, and rich way. And I communicate it in a uniquely direct and clear style.

3 hours ago, BlessedLion said:

Who controls it?

Im perplexed still on how one can be Being, in the sense of One Being (God) unseperated from reality, but still unable to influence or control it. 
 

No matter what I do a rock is a rock and there’s nothing I can do to change its form. Even though I’m “doing it”/ imagining it. How does that work? Is there any control at all? If not what the FUCK is controlling it

There is no control at all.

God is an infinite runaway ocean of dreams. No one controls it. Infinity is a magical self-unfolding process.

All of existence is Absolute Truth. Nothing can change this truth. It is a perfect tautology. All you can do is be conscious of its perfection and beauty.

In the end what you realize is that you can't change Absolute Perfection. All desire to change it comes from a lack of consciousness of its Perfection.

It truly is Perfect! Like, really.

Edited June 22 by Leo Gura

[Yimpa]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

There is no control at all.

God is an infinite runaway ocean of dreams. No one controls it. Infinity is a magical self-unfolding process onto itself for INFINITY!

 

[Sincerity]

That Artem guy? Lol.

I also had the (dis)pleasure of communicating with him after he started self-promoting (sharing his links to literally everything) the first day he became active on the forum. He was so egoic and unpleasant it was laughable. "Spiritual" fucking people man. 

[Bufo Alvarius]

1 hour ago, Water by the River said:

Like any appearing realm.

Yes, in reference to the Absolute/Nothingness, no appearing realm has an inherent reality onto itself. But in the context people like Artem and Martin use this distinction, they mean to say that only the material/energetic material plane we are experiencing is absolutely real, while phenomena like dreaming, astral travel, and non physical realities are fabrications of the brain/human mind. That is the great error they make, that stems from their world view (despite having had deep realizations about their true nature).

Edited June 22 by Bufo Alvarius

[emil1234]

2 minutes ago, Bufo Alvarius said:

Yes, in reference to the Absolute/Nothingness, no appearing realm has an inherent reality onto itself. But in the context people like Artem and Martin use this distinction, they mean to say that only the material/energetic material plane we are experiencing is absolutely real, while phenomena like dreaming, astral travel, and non physical realities are fabrications of the brain/human mind. That is the great error they make, that stems from their world view (despite having had deep realizations about their true nature).

im fairly certain u are misinterpreting martin ball. people often use energetic reality in reference to the non physical. martin ball definetely isnt materialist

[Leo Gura]

24 minutes ago, emil1234 said:

@Leo Gura have u ever experienced anything supernatural on psychedelics? ESP like

My awakenings are supernatural and even beyond.

Alien Consciousness is beyond anything humans even imagine as supernatural. It's super-supernatural. Human ideas of what's possible in the supernatural realm are very limited and prosaic. All that standard New Age mystical stuff. It's boring! Serious consciousness is beyond all that.

Edited June 22 by Leo Gura

[Davino]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

In the end what you realize is that you can't change Absolute Perfection. All desire to change it comes from a lack of consciousness of its Perfection.

 

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It truly is Perfect! Like, really.

One of my most beautiful awakenings was on Perfection

While I was trying to invalidate my past perfection awakenings

It seemed to good to be true

Yet it is

I still have some doubts about it though. But it seems that existence is an asymptotical explosion of ever more perfection

Like Reality is already Absolutely perfect but still is creating ever more Perfection at every breath

What are your thoughts on this?

I'm open to invalidate it once more given my past results

[emil1234]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

My awakenings are supernatural and even beyond.

can you explain? im very curious. i know that miracle /supernatural / esp stuff is possible on psychedelics, since ive experienced it myself. i think a direct correlation between psychedelic experiences and the physical world is necessary in order to constitute absolute validity, since we really do not know the capacities of the human brain to its full extend

[Bufo Alvarius]

1 minute ago, emil1234 said:

im fairly certain u are misinterpreting martin ball. people often use energetic reality in reference to the non physical. martin ball definetely isnt materialist

The main point is not that Martin is a materialist, but that for him, this very reality we are experiencing (whatever it is made of), is the only thing that is absolutely real. He discards all phenomena, such as astral travel and other non-physical realities, that are not within the same playing field as this reality we are experiencing, as fabrications of the (human) mind.