Role Of Psychedelics And Their Effects After Self-Realization: Artem Boytsov x Frank

[Davino]

@Javfly33

 

Y'all take Leo too much for granted.

You really don't know who you are talking with. You wouldn't bullshit a Nobel prize winner with your undergraduate physics understanding. Yet everyone does this to Leo all day long. It makes me feel bad honestly. What else can I say. I would cut on this behaviour, one thing is two minds working together towards truth and understanding and another is systematic gaslighting and convincing everyone to my Point Of View.

[Javfly33]

6 minutes ago, Davino said:

@Javfly33

 

Y'all take Leo too much for granted.

You really don't know who you are talking with. You wouldn't bullshit a Nobel prize winner with your undergraduate physics understanding. Yet everyone does this to Leo all day long. It makes me feel bad honestly. What else can I say. I would cut on this behaviour, one thing is two minds working together towards truth and understanding and another is systematic gaslighting and convincing everyone to my Point Of View.

Yes, I can disagree in lots of things with him lately but one thing I know is he has strong integrity in certain aspects so he will value more people being honest regardless if they agree with him or not.

Edited June 21 by Javfly33

[Princess Arabia]

4 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

Cause there is no God.

Only You.

Once you get You, what is there more to trascend? @Leo Gura

Either you Keep God and leave yourself out, or you kill God and leave only Yourself.

But you keep playing this game of twoness. 

You got it backwards. There is no "you", only the Absolute appearing as a "you". Call it God if you like. There's no God/Absolute to kill because it is all there is. There's no "once you get you", that's also "playing the game of twoness", according to you. How can a "you" get itself. You're using the you to get the you. It's like saying let's use a hammer to hammer itself. Or use an eye to see itself. Impossible.

Edited June 21 by Princess Arabia

[Javfly33]

55 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

You got it backwards. There is no "you", only the Absolute appearing as a "you". Call it God if you like. There's no God/Absolute to kill because it is all there is. There's no "once you get you", that's also "playing the game of twoness", according to you. How can a "you" get itself. You're using the you to get the you. It's like saying let's use a hammer to hammer itself. Or use an eye to see itself. Impossible.

In the sense that the Absolute/God etc... can be identified or "asleep" and therefore think it is a 'thing'.

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

Cause there is no God.

Only You.

Once you get You, what is there more to trascend? @Leo Gura

Either you Keep God and leave yourself out, or you kill God and leave only Yourself.

But you keep playing this game of twoness. 

All this says is that you haven't become conscious of God.

[Bufo Alvarius]

On 13.6.2024 at 1:06 PM, Water by the River said:

And Artem description of the hairless monkey is not the style I would use. But it is a valid desciption in how it emphasizes the point of the experiencer vanishing in the infinite totality of Reality itself, no longer having special importance (like a realizer of infinite consciousness) compared to the Totality that one truly is, becoming a total normie living ones life (which then lives itself without contraction, fear and suffering. Wonderful.). I prefer "empty pure impersonal infinite consciousness/Being/Reality", because hairless monkey can be misunderstood easily.

And off-topic, one can be enlightened and still totally wrong on the relative level. 

 

@Water by the River although going from his descriptions, Artem seems to have clearly transcended all self arisings, in his meta view on reality, he does hold the perspective, that the physical universe is all that there is, as an indivisible play of matter and energy. In his view, Astral travel and non physical life beyond death of the physical body, are imaginations of the mind, and consequently, can be transcended and seen through as illusions (see screenshots of his exact wordings attached). 

How do you look at this perspective and how do you bring it together with perspectives of Jürgen Ziewe or Tom Cambell's 'Larger Consciousness System'? It seems to me that Artem interprets his enlightenment in a way, that gives rise to a matter/energy reality only, beyond which nothing else exists (such as non physical existence as consciousness)

Btw, may I ask if you do experience dreaming?

Edited June 21 by Bufo Alvarius

[RedLine]

5 minutes ago, Bufo Alvarius said:

@Water by the River although going from his descriptions, Artem seems to have clearly transcended all self arisings, in his meta view on reality, he does hold the perspective, that the physical universe is all that there is, as an indivisible play of matter and energy. In his view, Astral travel and non physical life beyond death of the physical body, are imaginations of the mind, and consequently, can be transcended and seen through as illusions (see screenshots of his exact wordings attached). 

How do you look at this perspective and how do you bring it together with perspectives of Jürgen Ziewe or Tom Cambell's 'Larger Consciousness System'? It seems to me that Artem interprets his enlightenment in a way, that gives rise to a matter/energy reality only, beyond which nothing else exists (such as non physical existence as consciousness)

Btw, may I ask if you do experience dreams?

("buddhist") Enlightment does not give you the final Relative interpretation of reality but the fall into the Absolute. Artem is a materialist atheist (consciousness is produced by the mind, nothing after death, etc) but you can also find arahats who are idealists, monists or whatever. The same way you can find not elighment people being materialist and not elighment people being idealists. 

Enlightment leads to the end off suffer produced by the self but your worldview is something you articulate trough reason and it is independent of that. 

 

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, RedLine said:

Enlightment leads to the end off suffer produced by the self but your worldview is something you articulate trough reason and it is independent of that. 

This is why I call this enlightenment stuff nonsense. Real awakening is comprehension of the metaphysics of Consciousness.

You can't be Awake and maintain materialism.

Edited June 21 by Leo Gura

[emil1234]

35 minutes ago, RedLine said:

("buddhist") Enlightment does not give you the final Relative interpretation of reality but the fall into the Absolute. Artem is a materialist atheist (consciousness is produced by the mind, nothing after death, etc) but you can also find arahats who are idealists, monists or whatever. The same way you can find not elighment people being materialist and not elighment people being idealists. 

Enlightment leads to the end off suffer produced by the self but your worldview is something you articulate trough reason and it is independent of that. 

 

i think this is a typical tendency for people who follow buddhism dogmatically. they view all spiritual experiences and states of consciousness as nothing but distractions on their way to "liberation", and thus they don't get to investigate the nature of consciousness throroughly. I would for example assert that one who has abided in and investigated "oneness" or brahman properly, would have zero doubts in their minds that brahman and oneness is an ontological truth, since true miracles and supernatural events like telepathy, telekinesis etc are possible when you abide in brahman. frank and artem both reject oneness. brahman is viewed as a mere distraction in dogmatic buddhism, and thus people who follow that path do not get NEAR the full picture

Edited June 21 by emil1234

[RedLine]

20 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This is why I call this enlightenment stuff nonsense. Real awakening is comprehension of the metaphysics of Consciousness.

You can't be Awake and maintain materialism.

That´s also my biggest dream, and not he end of the suffering. But I don´t think that is possible.

The knowlodege obtained by the mind is not valid, it is just the self escaping from death, trough the creation of castles in the air. "Comprehension", "Metaphysics" these are only the ego pretending to be gigantic and nothing else... 

Edited June 21 by RedLine

[Rafael Thundercat]

I am looking to the cable of my mouse computer rigth now and only to understand how that thing there exist is ready a sort of miracle. How anything exist is a Miracle. I personaly sustain no hope to summarise the study of reality to one or two lines of conceptialization. Sometimes i like to imagine I just had fall from another planet to this one, like in the slap of a finger. from another strange reality to this. If that happen now and I go to a strange world I would feel like I dont even know who,what or where I am. 

even if you ask AI to create something weird and non-human it still will create somethinn inside the human parameters. 

 

Edited June 21 by Rafael Thundercat

[Francis777]

Can we all just agree that enlightenment is about the cessation of suffering and is not parallel to awakening?

[Yimpa]

8 minutes ago, Francis777 said:

Can we all just agree that enlightenment is about the cessation of suffering and is not parallel to awakening?

No, there are infinite explanations.

[Rafael Thundercat]

@Francis777 Maybe one topic to Leo solve all for once in a 3 hour episode, if was not solved ready in some of the thousand hours. hehe

[Javfly33]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

All this says is that you haven't become conscious of God.

Well... I know you think im full of shit, but i Will say It to you regardless:

You still havent really grasped what this present moment is.

Is not God, a dream, or whatever you become conscious of.

Once you grasp what you are, youll get It and it will be over for real. No more Dreaming or fantasies.

So far you Only have known identifications

And as long as It stays like that, you Will never know what this present moment is.

And so the Dreaming Will continue... 

You dont get how DEEP this fantasy goes.

You can actually stop Dreaming and Awake for real.

Edited June 21 by Javfly33

[Yimpa]

1 minute ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

if was not solved ready in some of the thousand hours. hehe

Have thousands of Awakenings, then we can have a serious discussion.

Tee-hee! 

[Rafael Thundercat]

1 minute ago, Yimpa said:

Have thousands of Awakenings, then we can have a serious discussion.

Tee-hee! 

Ah, now I undestand the hopeless of having serious discussions here. Did you notice I joke around a lot here? I became aware that hope serious discussion here is counter-productive. 

[Yimpa]

58 minutes ago, Bufo Alvarius said:

Btw, may I ask if you do experience dreams?

~~~THIS IS AN INFINITE DREAM DREAMING EVERY POSSIBLE DREAM~~

 

[Bufo Alvarius]

35 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This is why I call this enlightenment stuff nonsense. Real awakening is comprehension of the metaphysics of Consciousness.

You can't be Awake and maintain materialism.

@Leo Gura What do you make of Martin W. Ball descriptions in his book 'Being Human' (after he's having had so many realizations on 5meo), claiming that God is a Being, perfectly self-aware, existing as energy, and as that energy, taking all forms. He also describes that, in the way God as energy takes form, God is mathematical.

It seems like another reductionistic world view falling into the 'material/energy reality only' paradigm, which dismisses the non-physical (e.g. astral travel, non-physical realities)

[Yimpa]

@Bufo Alvarius it is a trap to give your authority over to any human being.