Iranian Woman speaks about Islamic and Socialist Imperialism

[BlueOak]

 

Stage Green mostly. with some yellow, but she raises a few good points of people's denial. There is nothing here to help directly integrate into a cohesive global system (Yellow), but you need to see the problems stated in green before you can address them. She'd need to look beyond her own country even more into a global dynamic to go further.

The main point(s) I would take away is that Islamic and socialist imperialism is trying to emerge, which is something I hadn't put into words before directly to link them, beyond just saying BRICS. That would be mostly China and Iran, with some Russian elements. I don't think she fully considers culture in her argument; that is, it's cultural in Iran for men to look at women as lesser, and though I can hate that, the Western world has moved away from externally trying to change countries towards their values. 

In fact, there has been a lot of influence the other way on Western values: In this context, something the manosphere at its worst in the West has been pushing for is to treat women as lesser. Before anyone defends the entire ideology, I have watched a few balanced speakers from the manosphere's general perspective, who I appreciated, but that is the most harmful element I've seen. I'd equate it to the women who use their husbands as bank accounts and sleep around. We need to increase the family's value, not devalue or emphasize value judgments on any individual part of it. If the family functions healthily, that's what matters.

It is fair to say that Islamic and Soviet propaganda telling us that by helping to protect women from getting raped, we are imposing imperialist ideals is rife now, and something I hadn't considered. Its never stated directly as that, but that's what it equates to. At the same time, BRICS are trying to impose their imperial ideals. If it's a purely an ethical decision, all reasonable efforts that don't result in a large war should be made to stop women getting raped, regardless of the external circumstances or risk. Maybe that's just a male perspective inside of me to protect, but it's there.

Israel was goaded by the Iranians into doing what they've done, probably going further than even Iran thought. Again, nobody makes the argument that thousands of Hamas teenagers in Gaza moved as one without a lot of coordination and leadership, because on its face that statement is lacking. Iran's propaganda will be working overtime, and I need to be more cognizant of that in the overall world dynamic. Despite the horrors being inflicted in Palestine, the new BRICS alliance and its member's external wars have, in part (Yes America too), brought this new reality into being.

Edited June 7 by BlueOak

[Nivsch]

@BlueOak I like the attitude of the Iranian people. They are very experienced in the consequences of lack of democracy, an experience that europeans are lacking, and have a significant initial advantage in their ability to foresee the dangers of their regime's proxies ideology and its potential to influence Europe too.

Edited June 7 by Nivsch

[Twentyfirst]

Stop listening to Westernized middle easterners when they talk about Islam 

[BlueOak]

Just now, Twentyfirst said:

Stop listening to Westernized middle easterners when they talk about Islam 

I am open to listening to anyone.

Can you give me, from your perspective, three unbiased Islamic speakers. - I realise nobody is unbiased, but it indicates they are at least trying to factor in more than their own perspective into their words.

[Nivsch]

5 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Stop listening to Westernized middle easterners when they talk about Islam 

Stop listening to addicted/depended costumers afftected by problematic pharmaceutical drugs. That is what you asked now.

Edited June 7 by Nivsch

[Twentyfirst]

Just now, BlueOak said:

I am open to listening to anyone.

Can you give me, from your perspective, three unbiased Islamic speakers. - I realise nobody is unbiased, but it indicates they are at least trying to factor in more than their own perspective into their words.

I mean he has bias but check out Middle Nation on YouTube. He is an American btw. 

Once a middle easterner/Arab/muslim goes to the West we disregard their opinions. The west has too much islamophia propaganda so of course they turn people against their own culture  

[BlueOak]

3 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@BlueOak I like the attitude of the Iranian people. They are very experienced in the consequences of lack of democracy, an experience that europeans are lacking, and have a sognificant initial advantage in their ability to foresee the dangers of their regime's proxies ideology and its potential to influence Europe too.

Exactly. I often lack a Middle Eastern-voiced perspective. The world would be a better place if more were heard globally and given similar platforms.

[Twentyfirst]

1 minute ago, Nivsch said:

Stop listening to addicted/depended costumters afftected by problematic pharmaceutical drugs. That is what you asked now.

If you ship an Israeli at a young age to Palestine and he is surrounded by Palestinians 24/7 saying they hate Israel. That Israeli will hate Israel 

[Nemra]

1 hour ago, Twentyfirst said:

The west has too much Islamophobia propaganda so of course they turn people against their own culture  

Don't dogmatically defend your culture or religion when you see people talking about its problems. When something doesn't align with your values, you regard it as propaganda.

Edited June 7 by Nemra

[Raze]

 

Edited June 7 by Raze

[Raze]

3 hours ago, BlueOak said:

Israel was goaded by the Iranians into doing what they've done, probably going further than even Iran thought.

How so?

[BlueOak]

23 minutes ago, Raze said:

How so?

By the attack on Israel's civilian population by Iran's proxy militia. Any far-right regime requires war or an opponent to sustain itself. The region was becoming quieter and more settled from an international audience perspective. Iran requires violence to sustain its militia groups; the more fanatical ideals of an Islamic caliphate over the region need an opponent. It is the same with the government of Israel or any region on the planet, without an opponent, they would not be as radical or be able to push their influence outward.

People have explained to me that this is more reflective of the militias themselves than Iran as a whole, and I concede that, but again, there is no way thousands of teenage militia were organized into a collective force without significant leadership and coordination.  Even if we assume the unlikely scenario that Iran had no knowledge or involvement in this, which I find hard to believe given the size and unprofessionalism of the fighting force, they are still partially responsible for: 1) creating the conditions for this to happen, 2) supplying the necessary tools, and 3) failing to control their own proxy force in a monumental lapse of leadership.

There has been a push for Islamic imperialism for a time; the same is true of Chinese Socialism. I can describe this now as connecting the dots; this requires an opponent, and often a war to sustain itself. You can see this in how American imperialism worked; the opponent allowed the military-industrial complex to flourish and maintain power in their government. This is true of Russia, and it may be true of the far-right governments in Europe that are required to meet Russia's threat; you can see them gaining more power by the month also.

Edited June 7 by BlueOak

[Raze]

21 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

By the attack on Israel's civilian population by Iran's proxy militia. Any far-right regime requires war or an opponent to sustain itself. The region was becoming quieter and more settled from an international audience perspective. Iran requires violence to sustain its militia groups; the more fanatical ideals of an Islamic caliphate over the region need an opponent. It is the same with the government of Israel or any region on the planet, without an opponent, they would not be as radical or be able to push their influence outward.

No, Iran attempted to strike a nuclear deal years ago to avoid war. They were making moves to avoid war. They also chose a extremely limited strike on Israel only after their general was assassinated and did not retaliate after Israel responded, again attempting to avoid war.

21 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

People have explained to me that this is more reflective of the militias themselves than Iran as a whole, and I concede that, but again, there is no way thousands of teenage militia were organized into a collective force without significant leadership and coordination.  Even if we assume the unlikely scenario that Iran had no knowledge or involvement in this, which I find hard to believe given the size and unprofessionalism of the fighting force, they are still partially responsible for: 1) creating the conditions for this to happen, 2) supplying the necessary tools, and 3) failing to control their own proxy force in a monumental lapse of leadership.

 

The leadership was the leadership of Hamas, it isn’t a gang of teenagers. They don’t need Irans leadership to plan on the ground with things like troop movements.

Its not an unlikely scenario Iran has no knowledge or involvement in oct 7. Iran was attempting to normalize with Saudi Arabia at the time, this ruined that. Even parts of Hamas didn’t know about the plan, Hamas keeps everything extremely secret because the IDF are constantly monitoring them.

1) The conditions that were created for this to happen were created by Israel. Israel orphaned many boys in previous Gaza assaults for Hamas to recruit, refused any negotiations for ending the blockade giving them motivation to rebel, and moved IDF from the Gaza border to help protect settlers expand in the West Bank. 

2) By that logic, it’s also Israel’s fault as much as Irans because they directed Qatar to send funds to Hamas

3) in this case it was a victory for them, they’ve dramatically hurt the image of the US and Israel and brought focus away from their own internal issues

21 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

 

There has been a push for Islamic imperialism for a time; the same is true of Chinese Socialism. I can describe this now as connecting the dots; this requires an opponent, and often a war to sustain itself. You can see this in how American imperialism worked; the opponent allowed the military-industrial complex to flourish and maintain power in their government. This is true of Russia, and it may be true of the far-right governments in Europe that are required to meet Russia's threat; you can see them gaining more power by the month also.

It’s not really the same. Iran and China both seek to expand their influence among their neighbors or commercially. The US is imperialistic in trying to control as much of the entire world as it can and crush any resistance, and Israel is expanding by ethnically cleansing Palestine.
Both Iran and China rarely if ever attack overseas countries and try to avoid war, most of their military actions are a response to US and Israeli imperialism and threats. 

Iran and China support the world consensus on a two state solution, it’s only the US and Israel blocking it, if it had passed oct 7 would have never happened.

Edited June 7 by Raze

[Twentyfirst]

3 hours ago, Nemra said:

Don't dogmatically defend your culture or religion when you see people talking about its problems. When something doesn't align with your values, you regard it as propaganda.

Who is talking about its problems? Westernized people? Who cares what y'all think. You guys don't even know who your own fathers are. Fix your own families before speaking on other cultures PLEASE for the love of god. Nothing you guys say about Islam is even true. 

Leo's video about Islam misses so much even though it is a step in the right direction. Leo is from the west. Now tell me how the hell can a spiritual teacher from USA know about Islam?????

All I am saying is if you want to learn about it maybe watch out who your source is. Just because she is Iranian does not mean she understands Iran. Propaganda is the active pushing of an agenda in a certain location. The only muslims in the world that are confused about Islam are from the west 

Edited June 7 by Twentyfirst

[BlueOak]

@Raze

Are both sides (all countries on this planet) responsible for what happens to one. Yes, finally, it gets reflected to me; that’s exactly how it works on Earth. Nothing is in a vacuum; every action of every country shifts things for the others and directly creates what comes next, especially in its immediate neighbors or geopolitical opponents created by duality. If people realized this, we’d have a better functioning global system without fear of ‘globalism', which exists anyway; people recoil from the idea they are not directly responsible for every decision they take. In truth, they are always part of a pattern; you and I are right now.

On Israel:

The more radical elements of the government require war and fear to sustain themselves. I’ve covered that all far-right governments are functionally similar in that respect. I don’t believe anyone thought the scale would be this because the fallout from fostering that violence was devastating for both.

On Hamas:

Hamas is a gang of teenagers; the average age in Gaza is 18:
1) https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25993-the-reasons-why-gazas-population-is-so-young/
2) https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2023-11-14/population-religion-and-poverty-the-demographics-of-israel-and-gaza - 40% of it was 14.

You can bet that it will be younger for men in a conflict zone, and younger since the war. Thousands of teenagers were organized into a strike. You are telling me you think it likely that the people behind the militia didn’t know about it? Either they failed monumentally in their leadership role to report on, influence, or control their proxy forces, or you're mistaken. Like most involved countries, Iran will have agents in that region right now.

1. Intelligent agents know about an army about to strike, let alone a militia. See America and England’s warning to Ukraine.

2, Have you met teenagers or tried to organize them to do anything at any time? It’s a nightmare; they can’t sit still, they want to tell everyone what they are doing, there’d be messages all over the place, and it’d be near impossible not to know. This is not 5 friends getting together to cause violence or mischief, it's a large force being pulled in at once.

You are intelligent; if you deduce from the above the apparent implication of that statement on other countries and their intelligence services, yes, you’ll be right. Not to say any of them could stop it when it was in motion, but to claim everyone was in the dark over a known flashpoint is so improbable to me that I cannot believe it. I also would expect nobody to know the scale of it properly or what would happen next. This is a conjecture, however, so you can dismiss it at will.

Instead, we can say Iran and Israel (and every other far-right government around the world) foster the conditions for conflict to occur so they can stay in power and leave it at that. You telling me America’s far-right government ripped up the nuclear deal only makes the previous statement more likely, not less. I’m not playing favorites here; the entire world shifted right and continues to do so; this is the natural implication of it: conflict.

As for you saying countries react differently, yes. They react according to their ability and goals. America’s was a profit and a democratic world order. Iran’s is an Islamic Caliphate. Russia’s is the restoration of the USSR. Europe’s is maintaining its financial hegemony. China is One China, securing as much of the surrounding territory as possible and trade connections overseas. BRICS goals, as a whole, are replacing the Western world order. NATO’s goal is to secure democratic prosperity and security. Africa has goals, Asia has goals, South America has goals. All of these goals are not above threatening other countries to achieve them, but recognizing them as existing is crucial to achieving if not peace, then at least lasting stability,

Edited June 7 by BlueOak

[Nemra]

13 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Just because she is Iranian does not mean she understands Iran 

That also applies to you.

Don't make everything about "westerners". Less developed countries are in a worse situation; propaganda is widespread, especially about the "west". You need to review your news sources.

Also, don't assume that I'm from the "west".

[Twentyfirst]

16 minutes ago, Nemra said:

That also applies to you.

Don't make everything about "westerners". Less developed countries are in a worse situation; propaganda is widespread, especially about the "west". You need to review your news sources.

Also, don't assume that I'm from the "west".

What applies to me? I am not westernized. I reject the west 

I travel 

This forum is a western forum. Just because you aren't from the west doesn't mean anything 

[Nemra]

51 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

This forum is a western forum

Then why are you still active on this forum if you reject the "west" wholeheartedly?

Edited June 7 by Nemra

[Twentyfirst]

35 minutes ago, Nemra said:

Then why are you still active on this forum if you reject the "west" wholeheartedly?

Uhh no. Thats like saying why do you use an iPhone if it comes from the west. Grow up 

[Nemra]

46 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Uhh no. That's like saying why do you use an iPhone if it comes from the west. Grow up 

It's ironic that you say that.

Edited June 7 by Nemra