UK general election 2024

[Danioover9000]

@bebotalk

On 2024-06-12 at 3:53 PM, bebotalk said:

With respect, are you British? 

The Tories' unpopularity is just self-evident, and for the reasons I've stated. Even the most ardent Tory voters would agree, and expect to lose. It's about "moral projection", just a reality of matters on the ground. Nothing I said was that out of place. Maybe ask British people, and might well concur with my points. 

   Yes I'm British, so what? Gonna character assassin me to death too, oh just because I'm a brit and a tory sympathizer apparently kills my argument by association?

   And I say no, those justification are weak. I'll ask again: What do you Brexit and Covid-19 were disasters mostly by the tories? Why do you think Brexit started? Why do you think they cut short PM Liz Truss's tenure?

   You claimed the tories are to blame, that they DESERVE to lose. I ask WHY? Explain your assertion instead of making an empty moral projection one of blaming.

[Danioover9000]

@enchanted

On 2024-06-06 at 2:32 AM, enchanted said:

I worry for your mental health, you really don't seem well.....if you really want to help society focus on yourself first. 

   I'm worried this commie ideology has made you silly, thinking the labor party would win a majority in an Island more predominantly conservative in mind. 

[Danioover9000]

   This guy is what all labor is like, with their fantasies from communists:

 

[bebotalk]

On 19/06/2024 at 2:43 AM, Danioover9000 said:

@bebotalk

   Yes I'm British, so what? Gonna character assassin me to death too, oh just because I'm a brit and a tory sympathizer apparently kills my argument by association?

   And I say no, those justification are weak. I'll ask again: What do you Brexit and Covid-19 were disasters mostly by the tories? Why do you think Brexit started? Why do you think they cut short PM Liz Truss's tenure?

   You claimed the tories are to blame, that they DESERVE to lose. I ask WHY? Explain your assertion instead of making an empty moral projection one of blaming.

Because you questioning the unpopularity of the Tories is peculiar. Moreover, you don't type like a native English speaker. Saying the Tories are unpopular shouldn't be controversial. Even if one is a Tory supporter, it doesn't override this. A MAGA Trump person can still acknowledge that there are many other Americans who dislike Trump. 

So tbh, I don't believe you're British. Since I didn't even make outlandish claims. If so, then the opinion polls wouldn't have dropped radically after Truss's budget. 

I am British - and it's pretty self-evident that the Tories are unpopular. I've also voted Tory in every election since I reached voting age, and I do believe the Tories should lose.

It's clear that May mismanaged the Brexit process. It's clear Boris Johnson's antics during COVID made him resign, And Truss was forced to resign by he own party after the fallout from her mini-budget. And even now, she is blaming the Civil Service and not her own idiocies as PM. 

So yes, they are to blame. That's a common, popular, and most possibly factual, view. 

Why don't you disprove MY points, which are commonly held amongst British people of all persuasions?

This was made before Sunak called the election, so I dont' see how merely stating they're unpopular is controversial!!

 

 

 

[bebotalk]

You seem to live in a bubble then, or are lying about being British, or have no clue about the general vibe. 

yes, I'd say the Tories DO deserve to lose. 

Adhering to a popular opinion or view isn't a weakness. Especially if said view is reasonable and well-grounded.

I don't belive murder is good, or that people should arbitrarily burn churches, mosques, and mandirs. I'm sorry I hold such a "bad" popular opinion. 

[bebotalk]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/reform-poll-lead-tories-farage-putin-b2568005.html

Yes, a clear bubble.

[Danioover9000]

@bebotalk

6 hours ago, bebotalk said:

Because you questioning the unpopularity of the Tories is peculiar. Moreover, you don't type like a native English speaker. Saying the Tories are unpopular shouldn't be controversial. Even if one is a Tory supporter, it doesn't override this. A MAGA Trump person can still acknowledge that there are many other Americans who dislike Trump. 

So tbh, I don't believe you're British. Since I didn't even make outlandish claims. If so, then the opinion polls wouldn't have dropped radically after Truss's budget. 

I am British - and it's pretty self-evident that the Tories are unpopular. I've also voted Tory in every election since I reached voting age, and I do believe the Tories should lose.

It's clear that May mismanaged the Brexit process. It's clear Boris Johnson's antics during COVID made him resign, And Truss was forced to resign by he own party after the fallout from her mini-budget. And even now, she is blaming the Civil Service and not her own idiocies as PM. 

So yes, they are to blame. That's a common, popular, and most possibly factual, view. 

Why don't you disprove MY points, which are commonly held amongst British people of all persuasions?

This was made before Sunak called the election, so I dont' see how merely stating they're unpopular is controversial!!

 

 

 

   Because I am British but can't provide proof because doxxing so you'll have to take my word for it, and 2 conflating MAGA trump supporters to tory supporters is pretty bad faith there, what makes them the same? MAGA supporters are more ultra far right and more patriotic, meanwhile tory are less that and more traditionalist than conservative.

   Again how was Brexit mismanaged? How was Covid-19 mismanaged, especially when most knew very little about the virus's lethality and high infection?

   Once again you're just morally blaming them the tories! Like what else will replace them? Labor party? The commie party that borrows loans outside the country? The left party that left common sense and pursued mass immigration over integration? A party with airy fairy commie dreams that nearly destroyed GB and UK?

   I will be sipping on my earl gray and await your fallacious replies.

Edited June 25 by Danioover9000

[Chadders]

@bebotalk I know I’ll be voting for the Green Party. They are the only party that actually has policies that will alleviate societal dysfunction 

@Danioover9000 The conservatives have presided over perhaps the biggest increase in dysfunction the UK has seen in modern times. Living standards are on the decline, child poverty rates are just awful now. Poverty, massive inequality, the obesity epidemic. The tories don’t give a fuck because they are mostly highly materialistic and deeply unspiritual. They are all about the bling bling and the money money. They are self serving 

They’ve left a damaging legacy for our children 

Edited June 26 by Chadders

[bebotalk]

On 25/06/2024 at 9:03 PM, Danioover9000 said:

@bebotalk

   Because I am British but can't provide proof because doxxing so you'll have to take my word for it, and 2 conflating MAGA trump supporters to tory supporters is pretty bad faith there, what makes them the same? MAGA supporters are more ultra far right and more patriotic, meanwhile tory are less that and more traditionalist than conservative.

   Again how was Brexit mismanaged? How was Covid-19 mismanaged, especially when most knew very little about the virus's lethality and high infection?

   Once again you're just morally blaming them the tories! Like what else will replace them? Labor party? The commie party that borrows loans outside the country? The left party that left common sense and pursued mass immigration over integration? A party with airy fairy commie dreams that nearly destroyed GB and UK?

   I will be sipping on my earl gray and await your fallacious replies.

Since the Tories in common discourse are highly unpopular. So I assume you're arguing from bad faith. If this isn't the case, then the opinion polls wouldn't be heavily anti-Tory. 

UK COVID deaths were higher than comparable countries. Moreover, the then PM openly lied about his actions in the lockdowns and those of his staff. this is common knowledge. Theresa May took over as PM after Cameron resigned, but spent her entire tenure dithering over getting a Brexit deal with the EU, and had to resign once it was clear her draft deal wouldn't be accepted. It took Boris less than four months to secure a deal, which wasn't that much different to what May proposed. That's three years lost, which could have been spent on other matters. 

I don't know what you mean about loans. All governments borrow externally. Immigration is complex since the country needs workers. 

You're basically gaslighting, since it's common that the Conservatives are disliked. Maybe things are different where you live, but even if you live in a heavily Labour seat that most likely they will gain, I don't see saying the Tories being unpopular is that contentious. 

 

[Danioover9000]

@bebotalk

11 hours ago, bebotalk said:

Since the Tories in common discourse are highly unpopular. So I assume you're arguing from bad faith. If this isn't the case, then the opinion polls wouldn't be heavily anti-Tory. 

UK COVID deaths were higher than comparable countries. Moreover, the then PM openly lied about his actions in the lockdowns and those of his staff. this is common knowledge. Theresa May took over as PM after Cameron resigned, but spent her entire tenure dithering over getting a Brexit deal with the EU, and had to resign once it was clear her draft deal wouldn't be accepted. It took Boris less than four months to secure a deal, which wasn't that much different to what May proposed. That's three years lost, which could have been spent on other matters. 

I don't know what you mean about loans. All governments borrow externally. Immigration is complex since the country needs workers. 

You're basically gaslighting, since it's common that the Conservatives are disliked. Maybe things are different where you live, but even if you live in a heavily Labour seat that most likely they will gain, I don't see saying the Tories being unpopular is that contentious. 

 

How am I gaslighting when I'm moderate conservative and not a tory???

When I say loans, I mean the labor party has to get more funding outside the UK. Way more than the tories. Yes I partly agree immigration is complex, but the immigration crisis is caused by a combination of Neoliberalism, global warming, western countries like USA destabilizing foreign 3rd world countries like Haiti and a few others, making their society harder to live in, increasing pressure of their citizens and peoples to immigrate. However the Liberal/socialist/progressive blind spot is empathy and lovey dovey for all immigrants, but that's not really good. Just look at Sweden, increased too much immigration, and they brought their culture and caliphate Islam into Sweden with little integration into Sweden's culture and society, and a spike of knife and sex crimes rose in the country. You basically have to balance this and sometimes that may mean reducing immigration and getting it under control, which labor will not do.

UK deaths to covid were higher than comparable countries? Such as Italy, or China's Wuhan???

I personally don't trust opinion polls too quickly. For example there was an online debate between Matt Dillahunty and Andrew Wilson on the debate topic 'will secularism beat Christian values?'(shitty resolution for debate, better is 'Is American secularism/humanism better than Judeo-Christian values?') and that Modern day debate guy, I think called James, made some opinion poll online. Of course more are democrats and more left leaning, more identify with Matt's atheism and lefty talking points over Christian nationalist Andrew Wilson. I think opinion polls need to be more fact checked and source the demographics and psychographics of those giving the opinion poll and voting, you need to give info about yourself before voting into opinion polls, IMO.

[bebotalk]

But then the Conservatives are not widely unpopular. One cannot see on TV, online, or speak to random people about how they want the Tories out.

Lol.

 

gaslighter. 

[Danioover9000]

14 hours ago, bebotalk said:

But then the Conservatives are not widely unpopular. One cannot see on TV, online, or speak to random people about how they want the Tories out.

Lol.

 

gaslighter. 

   See, that's why you're wrong, because the conservatives here are still popular, featured in TV and news outlets.

[Danioover9000]

@Chadders

On 2024-06-26 at 10:10 PM, Chadders said:

@bebotalk I know I’ll be voting for the Green Party. They are the only party that actually has policies that will alleviate societal dysfunction 

@Danioover9000 The conservatives have presided over perhaps the biggest increase in dysfunction the UK has seen in modern times. Living standards are on the decline, child poverty rates are just awful now. Poverty, massive inequality, the obesity epidemic. The tories don’t give a fuck because they are mostly highly materialistic and deeply unspiritual. They are all about the bling bling and the money money. They are self serving 

They’ve left a damaging legacy for our children 

   However, dysfunction, living standards on the decline, child poverty, poverty, massive inequality, obesity epidemic are not ONLY in GB. These negatives also exist in many other westernized secular/humanist atheistic countries like USA, EU countries, Canada, even in south Korea, especially when you factor in birthrate declines within western countries. Can you explain to me why North Korea's birthrate has steadily increased meanwhile South Korea's on the decline? Can you explain why Japan's birthrate is on the decline despite being quite westernized by the USA? Can you explain to me why there's massive immigration, which is caused by a number of factors including Neoliberalism from USA destabilizing 3rd world countries making them immigrate more than stay, for example in Haiti?

   I'll partly agree the UK/GB isn't as mighty as it was in the past, which is why we should have more limited democracies and even Republics, with a stronger emphasis on a more muscular Christianity than ever. 

[QVx]

While I have no deep insight, nor particular interest in the details of the past, present, or future politics of the UK, one thing is clear..

The avoidance of truth, or more specifically the avoidance of tackling corruption, is the barrier to any real meaningful change.

What UK politics lacks is conscious politicians both on an individual and collective level. Until such a time there is a seismic shift in collective consciousness as a country, we will be bound to fight and defend against the lowest common denominator.

On a more immediate note, the quickest way to begin to shift the damage delivered to the UK, over the last 30 years, is to break the bad news in that there is no more money available. We have paid a fortune into corporate pocket black holes in the hope that a collapse will not come while the ruling party is in power; kicking the can down the road.

Which in itself circles back to my initial point, the truth is being avoided. 

[Danioover9000]

@QVx

On 2024-06-28 at 2:39 PM, QVx said:

While I have no deep insight, nor particular interest in the details of the past, present, or future politics of the UK, one thing is clear..

The avoidance of truth, or more specifically the avoidance of tackling corruption, is the barrier to any real meaningful change.

What UK politics lacks is conscious politicians both on an individual and collective level. Until such a time there is a seismic shift in collective consciousness as a country, we will be bound to fight and defend against the lowest common denominator.

On a more immediate note, the quickest way to begin to shift the damage delivered to the UK, over the last 30 years, is to break the bad news in that there is no more money available. We have paid a fortune into corporate pocket black holes in the hope that a collapse will not come while the ruling party is in power; kicking the can down the road.

Which in itself circles back to my initial point, the truth is being avoided. 

   Right, but what do you expect from an Island nation? At least GB is the best country ever, but you cannot project American problems onto my country. It doesn't work like that.

[Danioover9000]

@QVx  And the truth is that London is not representative of all of GB/UK.

[bebotalk]

On 28/06/2024 at 1:27 PM, Danioover9000 said:

   See, that's why you're wrong, because the conservatives here are still popular, featured in TV and news outlets.

They will be in some seats, yes. But even then, their vote totals might fall. Though one seat, or town or city doesn't reflect the entire country.
So you're gaslighting or pretty deluded overall. Your town or city or constituency doesn't reflect the entire country, so it's a dead point. 

Edited July 1 by bebotalk

[Danioover9000]

@bebotalk

3 hours ago, bebotalk said:

They will be in some seats, yes. But even then, their vote totals might fall. Though one seat, or town or city doesn't reflect the entire country.
So you're gaslighting or pretty deluded overall. Your town or city or constituency doesn't reflect the entire country, so it's a dead point. 

   Meanwhile I am way more deluded than Labor which wants mass immigration into our country yet they bring their culture into our Island, and not even admit there's a problem with multiculturalism, egalitarianism, feminism, and immigration run amok? OK buddy. You should as a progressive/socialist/liberal/Marxist/communist tell those immigrants to go somewhere like in Sweden or in France, as those places are much better for immigrant benefits. And also tell the EU to stop encouraging them to immigrate here instead. And how's that working for Sweden for example?

[bebotalk]

I still contend you're gaslighting, or lying. 

I don't believe any British person, unless they're very sheltered, would say the Conservatives are not unpopular. Considering it's very common talking point. 

Hence my earlier analogy to Trump supporters - it would take a very blinded or sheltered Trump fan to not believe that a vast amount of Americans dislike him. 

I stand by my points.

Keep on gaslighting, and then projecting yourself as the best and most "noble" of people. 

I'm not a Marxist at all, though I do support immigration as do all the major parties in the UK. I don't believe immigration per se is a bad thing, neither am I a misogynist and despise feminism. 

I do think you're a liar though. Your English is very poor, for one, Yes, I haven't used perfect Standard English either. Though you type as a person whose third language is English, let alone first. Moreover, you claim not to get the narrative or reality that the Tories are highly unpopular. You also tend to have very black-and-white analyses of things. Is ALL immigration bad? Really? If a person from Saudi Arabia migrates, pays his or her taxes, doesn't push Islam or engages in subversive acts, why not? They should be free to arrive and live freely. 

You'd also know that opposing immigration per se in Brtain is deemed racist. It's only far-right groups that say all immigration is bad. Sweden is Sweden. We're not Sweden. They're responsible for their own faults and failures. However, maybe they are not vetting who enters their country, and their immigration policies are too lax. That's on them though. 

Edited July 2 by bebotalk