How Is It Possible To Be Wrong If Reality Is Relative?

[Water by the River]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The biggeat trick is that God can hide stuff from itself. Consciousness has the capacity to forget and to remember.

So imagine that therr is a goblin living in your closet, but you just forgot about it. That's really the power that God has over itself. There are literal goblins that God is hiding from you. This is an aspect of God/Consciousness that no nondual chimp understands or talks about. Because they brainwashed themselves with the idea that now is all there is. But there exist goblins which you don't now see. But you could see them if only your consciousness was higher. And no amount of nondual chimpery will do it.

You are falling back into old habits my friend  . A primate is a wonderful manifestation.

The forgetting aspect is well covered by the nondual primates, although you choose to ignore it.

 

On 18.5.2023 at 4:36 PM, Water by the River said:

And the One with a second, or Absolute Infinite Impersonal Consciousness holds and watches all these perspectives, but a "human"-perspective/being is unaware of all the other perspectives, or forgets them "in space", like we normally forget things "in time".

Reality is made of perspectives, each perspective containing/reflecting each other, and the "aware" "thing" is the same in all of them: Infinite Impersonal Consciousness. It is also the essence of any appearance appearing in a perspective. But it is impersonal, so empty it feels like death. There is no separate-self, and it doesn't need to make I-feelings or I-thoughts (the separate self, ego) appear. As a molecule, or animal, it can do fine without....

For more of that theory that reality is made of Holons, or perspectives, or Indras Net, see Ken Wilber "Sex, Ecology, Spirituality".

 

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The reason my teachings are not clear is because I've been busy discovering crazy shit that no one understands or talks about. And I don't have a good way of talking about it.

I reached levels of consciousness I cannot make sense of or talk about. Utterly alien shit. And I don't know what to do with it. Meanwhile nondualists and Buddists gaslight me at every step.

Utterly alien dream/manifestation/illusion. Sure, no doubt you have. It seems to confuse or gaslight (or whatever) you that not everyone gives these illusions the same importance as you do.

Appearance = temporary = non-staying = impermanent = illusion = dream. Veeeery importante. Soooo fascinating & interesting.

What is the fascination? Another illusion-arising. Moving in Infinite Being.

 

Singing "thunder only happens when its raining" by the River.... 

 

[GLORY]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Not an external world, but an infinite possibility space of imagination.

So when something concrete arises out of nothingness (=hidden infinite possibility space), then it becomes a conscious experience, right? 

Higher Consciousness = More hidden things in possibility space become unhidden = more concrete experience 

But then, how it is decided what exactly arises out of the infinite possibility space ? 

[Twentyfirst]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No, I mean something far more radical. Imagine a reality where Christianity is literally true for everyone. And that is the only reality. A 100% Christian reality.

That would be a real test of God's dreaming skills.

So my question to you is: How good of a dreamer do you wager God is?

I don't understand because at the end of the day a dream is just a dream no matter how vivd or coherent. Does the dream stop working because there are cracks that we see through it or because we got bored of it?

[_Archangel_]

41 minutes ago, GLORY said:

But then, how it is decided what exactly arises out of the infinite possibility space ? 

@GLORY Karma, as one of the possible answers.
If we wanna get as deconstructive as possible, there actually isn't any logic about why or how thing appear in the present moment.
Logic and causation only  become a factor when we speak about the world  in its duality. 
In this case, if you wanna find a chain of reactions you will definitely find it.

Why did you decide to eat ice cream today? an infinite number of apparition in consciousness prior to that one, all linked to one another through by a thread of association, same archetype etc.

[Rafael Thundercat]

From a old Leo Blog Post about Story

Storyland or Backstories land

 

By Leo Gura - November 23, 2017

Imagine an alternative universe — Storyland — in which there is no matter, no time, no space. There are no laws of physics. Instead, there are just stories. Every being here has a story because stories are all there are. Here, you aren’t merely a being WITH a story, you ARE one of the stories (NPC), because stories are the only building blocks of reality. Here, if it’s not a story, it simply cannot be. So if you want to have matter, or time, or space, or physical laws, you must invent them — as stories!

In such a universe, the major preoccupation of all beings would be defending their stories (NPC´s), because, well… their life literally depends on it. After all, you don’t want to de-materialize, do you? In Storyland, the greatest danger to a being would be the unraveling of his story. That would be the definition of death: the end of my story. In such a universe, all beings would be deathly afraid of anything that might lead to the unraveling of their story. Such beings would gather together to co-create collective stories (Relative Objective Truths) to make their individual stories seem more solid. These beings would form groups to fight one another, both ideologically and physically, in order to defend the “reality” of one collective story over another. In this universe, one town’s collective story would threaten the reality of the neighboring town’s collective story. And so they would go to war because their very sense of existence would hinge on it. Here, culture would be king. Culture wouldn’t merely be a collection of preferences and opinions, it would be a matter of life and death.

 

To such beings, stories wouldn’t appear as “merely stories”. Nor would be they be called “stories”. No, no, no. Stories would be considered, and called, REALITY! Such beings would never dare to speak or even think of the possibility that stories are anything but REALITY, because stories are the only kind of reality here. So, if ever a being came along who said, “Listen here, my fellow beings! What you call REALITY is just a story.” The first thing his fellow beings would want to do is kill him. Failing that, they would put him into an insane asylum. Failing that, they would gag him. Failing that, they would demonize him. Failing that, they would dismiss him as a nutcase. Failing that, they would agree with him by adopting a new story which says, “Our reality is a just a story, like that guys says.” But even so, they would continue running that story. Their minds simply could not bear to actually stop creating stories because to do so would be suicide.

Sound familiar??

Well… Ta-da! That is our universe!

It’s the only kind of universe that could possibly exist! Time, space, physics, brains, objective reality, mathematics, science, etc. are all just part of the story you’re defending, you see? And the notion that these are not a story but REALITY, is itself just another story! String a couple of stories together like that and you’ve literally got yourself a reality!

Now you object, “But Leo! Who is telling this story?”

The notion that there needs to be a “who” — a subject — is just another story!

So you object, “But Leo! Where is the story taking place?”

The notion that there needs to be a place — a where — is just another story!

So you object, “But Leo! How are these stories possible in the first place?”

The notion that there needs to be a “how”, is just another story!

So you object, “But Leo! Why is there something rather than nothing?”

The notion that there is something rather than nothing, is just another story!

So you object, “But Leo! What are these stories made out of?”

Nothing! A story is something which is not.

So you object, “But Leo! How come it feels so REAL?”

Because there is nothing else to contrast it with.

You see? It’s all a hallucination hallucinated by an infinite hallucination, all of it adding up to nothing — the only way anything can ever be.

And of course, all this is just another story

Below a possibe version of this Storyland Universe 

 

 

[Rafael Thundercat]

I am the Free Guy

 

 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Twentyfirst said:

I don't understand because at the end of the day a dream is just a dream no matter how vivd or coherent.

A dream isn't just a dream. A dream is absolute reality.

You have to be careful not to be so dismissive of dreams.

Edited June 6 by Leo Gura

[Rafael Thundercat]

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You have to be careful not to be so dismissive of dreams.

I made nigth dreams a personal study. The amount to stuff one can learn from it is big. I even feel sad when I cant rememeber my dreams since they are a good source of How my life is going on.

[Someone here]

Be easy on Leo guys . Infinity cannot be encapsulated completely and watered down into posts on a forum . This presents inevitable paradoxes and contradictions . You can't give full  explication of what infinity is . 

Reality is nothing and everything and both and neither and everything in between. 🤣

[integral]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

A dream isn't just a dream. A dream is absolute reality.

You have to be careful not to be so dismissive of dreams.

Then maybe it makes sense to differentiate flexible absolutes versus inflexible absolutes? A dream is absolute in every dream, absolute Christianity is only absolute within a specific dream, not all dreams.

Existence is absolute in every dream, other types of absolutes that you’ve described recently are not?

God can make anything an absolute with enough imagination because it’s infinite imagination but some absolutes are more absolute than others. 😅

Edited June 6 by integral

[Yimpa]

1 hour ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

I made nigth dreams a personal study. The amount to stuff one can learn from it is big. I even feel sad when I cant rememeber my dreams since they are a good source of How my life is going on.

You can start a dream journal 

[Twentyfirst]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

A dream isn't just a dream. A dream is absolute reality.

You have to be careful not to be so dismissive of dreams.

Yeah you are right. Why dismiss a dream that just a lifetime ago I wouldn't have even been able to tell it was a dream 

[Leo Gura]

58 minutes ago, integral said:

Then maybe it makes sense to differentiate flexible absolutes versus inflexible absolutes? A dream is absolute in every dream, absolute Christianity is only absolute within a specific dream, not all dreams.

Existence is absolute in every dream, other types of absolutes that you’ve described recently are not?

God can make anything an absolute with enough imagination because it’s infinite imagination but some absolutes are more absolute than others. 😅

This is why Consciousness must be explored to be appreciated and understood. It's not enough to just theorize or speculate, you must go out there and experience all these various nuances of absoluteness to see how they work and fit together.

Edited June 6 by Leo Gura

[zurew]

14 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Be easy on Leo guys . Infinity cannot be encapsulated completely and watered down into posts on a forum . This presents inevitable paradoxes and contradictions

I would argue most of the debates and conversations on this forum about enlightenment and about awakening and  about philosophy are almost completely meaningless  (meaningless  in the sense that people are not talking about the same thing and sometimes you could literally replace most of the buzzwords that they use with "blabla" and the debate and the convo would go down the exact same way , thats how vague and meaningless most of the buzzwords are.)

Here is a list of the buzzwords that are regularly used on this forum , that most people either use completely differently or even in contradictory ways compared to others or use it in so vague ways that its completely unclear whats being meant by them  (and in some of the cases this vagueness is used to avoid criticism, cause you can't give a targeted attack, if the target is unclear)

• Absolute truth
• truth
• relative truth
• illusion
• infinity
• dream
• Absolute
• consciousness
• reality
• absolute reality
• ultimate reality
• awakening
• enlightenment
• awake
• God
• experience
• Direct experience
• becoming conscious of 
• knowing
• knowledge
• external world
• objective
• subjective

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

Reality is nothing and everything and both and neither and everything in between. 🤣

If you allow Leo and others to be contradictory and incoherent, then im not sure wtf the point in trying to communicate (other than trying to signal to other forum members how wise, enlightened, awake and how much of a deep thinker you are, by using big buzzwords that are at this point meaningless) . The sentence that you wrote there is as coherent and meaningful as this one : "sjkdngfjdjgkdgh fdgjng rjht". 

[Ero]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This is why Consciousness must be explored to be appreciated and understood. It's not enough to just theorize or speculate, you must go out there and experience all these various nuances of absoluteness to see how they work and fit together.

@Leo Gura
This precise exploration is one of the driving motivations behind my life purpose, that of the "Consciousness Engineer", which requires deep understanding of its innumerable facets. Non-dual and other simplistic philosophies do not properly appreciate the sheer complexity of Consciousness. Taming the Chaos is the natural evolution of my current human dream (I take greater inspiration from Tesla, Ramanujan, Grothendieck and Shulgin moreso than from Ramana, Ralston or Spira)

The thing is, I don’t believe there are tools even remotely close to what psychedelics have to offer in this exploration, a realization you yourself share. Having experienced hellish realms and their physical toll, I nonetheless believe that is a cost I am willing to pay.

Considering what you yourself had recently shared with respect to psychedelics and insanity, I wonder whether you think the latter is problematic. I believe I am uniquely grounded and resilient, considering my and my people's life experience, and moreso than that I see this as the only way of creating abundance for without abuse or exploitation. But of course, the Chaos can bite my arm off in the process. 

 

[Leo Gura]

@Ero The deeper down the rabbit hole you go the more dangerous it gets. You may reach places no human has been and at that point there are no guarantees.

[Leo Gura]

38 minutes ago, zurew said:

if the target is unclear)

• Absolute truth
• truth
• relative truth
• illusion
• infinity
• dream
• Absolute
• consciousness
• reality
• absolute reality
• ultimate reality
• awakening
• enlightenment
• awake
• God
• experience
• Direct experience
• becoming conscious of 
• knowing
• knowledge
• external world
• objective
• subjective

These are only like the most difficult things to understand in all of existence.

And you want what exactly? A textbook explanation?

At some point I will write that textbook, but in the meantime I am doing the research.

Edited June 6 by Leo Gura

[Someone here]

@zurew its not meaningless. Its just multidimensional and perspectival.

 Are you aware of Ludwig Wittgenstein's duck /rabbit?

You can either see the rabbit or see the duck.. You can either see one of them or the other at a time.. You can't  see the two simultaneously and realize that they are actually identical at once.. Only in a linear process of going through one and then other.. And then having the Insight "oh its not a rabbit OR a duck.. It's both simultaneously and only one of them relative to a certain perspective".  If this is understood.. Basically you don't have to read a single word in epistemology looking for the truth in this OR that.     Not- two.  Reality Is the rabbit - duck!! 

 

 

[BlueOak]

5 hours ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

Storyland or Backstories land

It’s the only kind of universe that could possibly exist! Time, space, physics, brains, objective reality, mathematics, science, etc. are all just part of the story you’re defending, you see? And the notion that these are not a story but REALITY, is itself just another story! String a couple of stories together like that and you’ve literally got yourself a reality!

Partially, the universe is you in a verse. So if reality is structured in a universe, you would need to maintain you in that verse. Certainly, for duality to reflect anything, you need to be present in it.

Reality can be structured in other ways. One clear one most of us here could imagine, or, if we are fortunate, describe, would be a single unity.

Another might be a trinity, rather than a duality. If I can conceive that in this limited mind, then you can be absolutely sure our bigger self can create it in a nanosecond. Time and physics work here in perfect harmony, but they are so in-depth that we could have created them differently elsewhere and probably have done.
 

[Water by the River]

40 minutes ago, Ero said:

Considering what you yourself had recently shared with respect to psychedelics and insanity, I wonder whether you think the latter is problematic

How could Insanity be problematic?