How Is It Possible To Be Wrong If Reality Is Relative?

[Leo Gura]

57 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

@Leo GuraYes but what about foolishness. At lower levels of consciousness, a fool is deluded and thinks they are right and that wisdom is just relative. But at higher levels of consciousness, we see that wisdom has more objective features even as it relates to relative domains. There is a way that reality is structured and relative to how reality is structured right now, there are objective truths relative to this structure and self-imposed rule-sets.

Yes, but that wisdom is still relative to how the world is, which could change.

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A person could believe in the Christian God and that Jesus is King. And that the Bible is true. But these people are wrong in all possible worlds because the Bible is content within consciousness.

That's not necessarily true.

God could dream a dream in which fundamentalist Christianity is objectively true. But that's not our current dream, and it's not even the dream of Christians.

A Christian's dream includes that Christianity is ultimately a fiction. But there can be a deeper dream where Christianity is not a fiction. But no Chrisitian is powerful enough to dream that.

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Wisdom also seems to be relative and objective at the same time. If there is no objectivity, then wisdom does not really exist because wisdom suggests that one’s attitudes and way of life are in alignment with truth, how reality works.

Not exactly. There are domains of Consciousness where wisdom simply doesn't exist or apply. Wisdom is a human sorta thing.

A crocodile don't give a fuck about wisdom.

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But if it is all relative, then a Trump supporter is as wise as a Sage. 

No, because a Trump supporter is a thing within our particular world/dream, and relative to this world they are deluded. In a different world they may not be deluded but that doesn't mean anything in our world because politics is all relative to one's world.

Edited June 4 by Leo Gura

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

No. You have some power over how you use your mind and that leads to different actions which influence the universe in a small way.

That's obvious as hell.  That's not what I'm saying of course.  You said what is being dreamt is none of my business as a human but to God and not even God because infinity is inevitable and God's infinite plan must be played out completely until the puzzle is completed and everything fits in in the bigger picture possible . So I asked who ultimately controls this mechanism if even (as you said ) God himself cannot stop himself from himself  .

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, Someone here said:

 So I asked who ultimately controls this mechanism if even (as you said ) God himself cannot stop himself from himself  .

Truth.

Edited June 4 by Leo Gura

[Someone here]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Truth.

Of course.

So Is that why you've deleted "you are Leo " from your signature and replaced it with "you are Truth "? Or is it because it was super cringe? jk

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Someone here said:

Of course.

So Is that why you've deleted "you are Leo " from your signature and replaced it with "you are Truth "? Or is it because it was super cringe? jk

To spare you a truth you are not yet ready to accept

[Someone here]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

To spare you a truth you are not yet ready to accept

Haha That's right man .. You are me..

All people are me! Not just dear Leo

But  That's the final goal of this work .  The aim of all my seeking .. Is to merge into you and become one with you. 

Whoever reading these words right now.. Is me.   The awareness.  There is apparent separate persons though.  But what "you" are is not a person. You are the background that is observing.  And I am that.  Therefore I am you. I know this .  You are literally physically actually accurately me.. Now we can fall in love with each other. We can focus on what seperates us though and that's equally true.. You are not me =you are me.. Makes no difference .. But I choose that you are me because that's more attractive. Truth doesn't have to always make sense.  Nothing makes sense  anyways 😂. 

 

[VeganAwake]

Right wrong; good bad; up down bottom top middle.

These are just conditioned ideas which seem to appear within the relative illusion of self or matrix of mind!

There isn't wrong and there isn't right........there's just what SEEMS to be occurring!! 😅

There isn't a real you thats innocent or guilty.

❤️ 

Edited June 4 by VeganAwake

[Someone here]

@VeganAwake 🤣🙏

[VeganAwake]

2 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@VeganAwake 🤣🙏

See its even more ridiculous to be nobody 😄 🤣 😂 ❤️ 

[Someone here]

3 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

See its even more ridiculous to be nobody 😄 🤣 😂 ❤️ 

Not ridiculous at all . It doesn't take more than 5 minutes of classic old Self-Inquiry to realize there is nobody inside the body .

[VeganAwake]

13 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Not ridiculous at all . It doesn't take more than 5 minutes of classic old Self-Inquiry to realize there is nobody inside the body .

it's realized the one realizing, isn't real🤯 🤔 🫨

❤️ 

[Someone here]

@VeganAwake hey don't get too cocky ..this whole no self baloney is yet another illusion which the illusory you have to bust through . If an illusory bus hits the illusory you ..the illusory you will die ..will fuckin die..for real ..not ego death kids play.

I agree that the self is illusory. But its needed to function in the illusory world .otherwise you will go bananas and bad illusory things will happen to the illusory you 😉

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

The aim of all my seeking .. Is to merge into you and become one with you. 

I wanted to remove myself from your work. So that you don't get hung up on me.

Edited June 4 by Leo Gura

[Someone here]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I wanted to remove myself from your work. So that you don't get hung up on me.

Your solipsism episode was the final nail on my coffin . I'm you .you are me .not a topic of negotiation. 

[r0ckyreed]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

God could dream a dream in which fundamentalist Christianity is objectively true. But that's not our current dream, and it's not even the dream of Christians.

A Christian's dream includes that Christianity is ultimately a fiction. But there can be a deeper dream where Christianity is not a fiction. But no Chrisitian is powerful enough to dream that.

@Leo GuraI am not sure if I agree. The Universe could imagine a reality where Christianity and Quanon appear to be true. But Truth is more fundamental than any human idea about reality. The ideas in the Bible and Christianity are all relative, and therefore, they cannot be absolutely true. The only Absolute Truth I know is that the Universe/Consciousness exists. It is absolutely true because it is something that exists in "all possible worlds" and cannot be doubted/mistaken.

A Christian's dream seems to include that Christianity is "absolute truth." They misinterpret the teachings of Jesus such as thinking that Jesus is the only way to truth, hence, "I am the way the truth and the life" quote. Many Christians seems to misunderstand those teachings. But at the same time, some relativist would say that it is just my perspective that they misunderstand. But I argue that my perspective or their perspective could be wrong relative to what is actually true about reality. We may not ever know, but there are true and false ways of looking and navigating reality.

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Not exactly. There are domains of Consciousness where wisdom simply doesn't exist or apply. Wisdom is a human sorta thing.

A crocodile don't give a fuck about wisdom.

Wisdom seems to be more than a human notion. Wisdom seems to be a connection to higher intelligence, things beyond the human. That is what I think makes wisdom, wisdom is that it isn't just a human construction, but rather a connection to the true nature of something.

It also takes wisdom to know that crocodiles don't care about wisdom. And it takes wisdom to not test it out by petting a crocodile with my "wisdom."

However, I just had a thought that maybe crocodiles do unconsciously care about some forms of "wisdom" relative to their survival. If a crocodile could hunt more efficiently and could avoid getting killed, it would take the "wiser" path. Wisdom isn't devoid from survival. Wisdom is highly practical. I see now that wisdom can be relative to different organisms. A crocodile might never be able to have the type of mind capable of contemplation. But the crocodile can find wisdom in other ways to live more in alignment with how reality is. That crocodile that ate that old woman wasn't wise because it got euthanized. A really profoundly wise crocodile could grok this one day. Evolution is an intelligent process and sometimes can be a process of wisdom as well. But maybe I am conflating wisdom and intelligence too closely together because there are subtle differences.

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No, because a Trump supporter is a thing within our particular world/dream, and relative to this world they are deluded. In a different world they may not be deluded but that doesn't mean anything in our world because politics is all relative to one's world.

I would say that while it is great for thought experiments, I don't think we should speculate about other worlds because the only world that I can be sure that exists is this one. But even if there were other worlds that exist where somehow everything Trump is doing is correct and democrats are fools (I don't see how this could be possible but lets go with it), then they could be right but for the wrong reasons. Just like believing that ghosts are real, but it turns out that it was another type of dangerous being.

You can see that their mind is fundamentally not in alignment with reality in all possible worlds. Because in all possible worlds, they would be buying into all kinds of delusions in these "other kinds of worlds/dreams." They could be right about one thing like Trump but wrong about so many other things because their methods will produce more fallacious results than truth.

Edited June 4 by r0ckyreed

[VeganAwake]

4 hours ago, Someone here said:

@VeganAwake But its needed to function in the illusory world.

Its already not there, so how could it be needed?

Believing itself to be real is its defense mechanism.

The body will naturally jump out of the way of a moving bus. The illusion is that which says "phew, I almost died, and that would be horrible"

The body, the bus and the world are real enough.

The only thing thats completely unreal, is that which experiences linear time, from birth to death.

❤️ 

[Vibes]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I wanted to remove myself from your work. So that you don't get hung up on me.

@Leo Gura I fucking knew it!

That was one way you used, but it was clear since the day you started to change your vibe.

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

To spare you a truth you are not yet ready to accept

I knew it too 

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, nuwu said:

If Truth is above God then God is not God?

Truth identical to God. For this reason God does not manipulate reality, God just is reality.

Humans like to imagine God as a mastee manipulator, but is more profound than that. God does not manipulate, it just surrenders to its own true nature, which flows for its own infinite perfection and intelligence. God IS that highest flow.

Edited June 4 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

@Leo GuraI am not sure if I agree. The Universe could imagine a reality where Christianity and Quanon appear to be true. But Truth is more fundamental than any human idea about reality. The ideas in the Bible and Christianity are all relative, and therefore, they cannot be absolutely true.

Not so fast! You overlook the possibility that God could create a reality in which Christianity is absolutely true.

Your notion of absolute is too reductionistic and limited. Imagine an infinity of different mutually exclusive absolutes.

Imagine Absolute Christianity, Absolute Islam, and Absolute Satanism. All of them absolute within themselves.

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A Christian's dream seems to include that Christianity is "absolute truth." They misinterpret the teachings of Jesus such as thinking that Jesus is the only way to truth, hence, "I am the way the truth and the life" quote. 

But now imagine a world in which Jesus is the only truth and everyone else is going to Hell. God could construct such a dream and it would be true as long as you are inside that dream.

Outside a dream there is nothing.

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Wisdom seems to be more than a human notion. Wisdom seems to be a connection to higher intelligence, things beyond the human. That is what I think makes wisdom, wisdom is that it isn't just a human construction, but rather a connection to the true nature of something.

It also takes wisdom to know that crocodiles don't care about wisdom. And it takes wisdom to not test it out by petting a crocodile with my "wisdom."

Wisdom does connect with truth in some way, but wisdom doesn't have to be present or active at all. There can be consciousness devoid of any wisdom and it is no less legit.

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I would say that while it is great for thought experiments, I don't think we should speculate about other worlds because the only world that I can be sure that exists is this one.

But God is a dreamer of worlds, so if you want to understand God you better think beyond you present little world.

It's like you were born on a island and don't want to be all crazy thinking about anything across the sea because island life is your whole reality.

Edited June 4 by Leo Gura

[r0ckyreed]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Not so fast! You overlook the possibility that God could create a reality in which Christianity is absolutely true.

Your notion of absolute is too reductionistic and limited. Imagine an infinity of different mutually exclusive absolutes.

Imagine Absolute Christianity, Absolute Islam, and Absolute Satanism. All of them absolute within themselves.

@Leo GuraIt is hard to imagine them being Absolute because they are so relative. Whose version of Christianity would be Absolute. There are a billion flavors of Christianity. Which one could be true? Also, if God can create something, doesn’t that imply that it is contingent on God? If God creates Christianity as Absolute Truth. God would have to fool itself into believing that. Christianity would only appear to be absolutely true if God deluded itself to that degree. But everything that God creates has to depend on God. Christianity couldn’t exist without Consciousness /God. I am not understanding how it is possible. It is like God is lifting a stone more powerful than itself. But I don’t think God really couldn’t do that unless God uses his unlimited power to limit its own power.

I am not sure how a concept such as Jesus or the Space Kangaroo could be Absolutely True when it is contingent on the Mind imagining it.

You make a good point that consciousness can be devoid of wisdom but not devoid of intelligence. It takes intelligence to have a dumb state of consciousness. But an highly intelligent form of consciousness I would suggest would have some degrees of wisdom associated with it. When we are talking about God/The Universe, we are talking about the most intelligent/wisest consciousness there is.

The issue I have in understanding your last statement is that I am only on my own island. My human consciousness cannot explore other islands and lands beyond my own perception. Anything that I imagine outside of my consciousness is an idea held inside of my consciousness. There may be other consciousnesses or other dreams/worlds outside my own, but I could never access them or prove that. That is why I say to not speculate about other dreams/worlds because the only world that can be known absolutely is my own consciousness right now. My subjective experience is absolute truth. I cannot deny or doubt it. Even if I were to travel to another island, it would still be my island. If I were to experience another consciousness, it would still be my experience. We cannot escape this ramification of epistemological solipsism.

Edited June 4 by r0ckyreed