Would it be a Trap/Pitfall to 100% Surrender WITHOUT Love ?

[BlurryBoi]

I'm asking because (not an exageration) i've been burning-out from being stuck to go through a hellish stage of life, profoundly devoid of Love.

And lately i've been close to my limit and starting to really surrender (painfully), but each time i'm deeply surrendering i get to the point where i'm at a threshold to an existential cliff, and it feels 100% devoid of this (nutritional/healthy) Love.

 

So it really feels like behind that threshold can be a boundless Bad-Trip for someone already traumatised/exhausted/unable to Love. (I wouldnt be suprised if complete surrender releases DMT from the brain, and i understand that you gotta be real careful about triping while ill)

Kind of like i would finally let open the floodgates of hell (wich is passing by my mind everyday) to corrupt/penetrate my mind and soul into hellish insanity. (Through LOVE of course )

 

So the inquiry here is : maybe its not enought to "just surrender and everything will be ok", maybe you need to do it skillfully/wisely/lovingly if your gonna 100% surrender, or your might get foolishly corrupted/consummed by a crocodile/hell who's been lingering for the moment you vulnerably give up your survival/mind/soul.

 

Thanks for your wisdom/experience about this

Edited June 2, 2024 by BlurryBoi

[tuku747]

Nothing is trying to trap you.

The field is not laid with traps.

Will to Power.

Seek Love in the moment, and trust in it!

[James123]

4 hours ago, BlurryBoi said:

I'm asking because (not an exageration) i've been burning-out from being stuck to go through a hellish stage of life, profoundly devoid of Love.

And lately i've been close to my limit and starting to really surrender (painfully), but each time i'm deeply surrendering i get to the point where i'm at a threshold to an existential cliff, and it feels 100% devoid of this (nutritional/healthy) Love.

 

So it really feels like behind that threshold can be a boundless Bad-Trip for someone already traumatised/exhausted/unable to Love. (I wouldnt be suprised if complete surrender releases DMT from the brain, and i understand that you gotta be real careful about triping while ill)

Kind of like i would finally let open the floodgates of hell (wich is passing by my mind everyday) to corrupt/penetrate my mind and soul into hellish insanity. (Through LOVE of course )

 

So the inquiry here is : maybe its not enought to "just surrender and everything will be ok", maybe you need to do it skillfully/wisely/lovingly if your gonna 100% surrender, or your might get foolishly corrupted/consummed by a crocodile/hell who's been lingering for the moment you vulnerably give up your survival/mind/soul.

 

Thanks for your wisdom/experience about this

Surrender, SURRENDER. FUCK EVERYTHING, LET GOOOOO!!!

[LambdaDelta]

Surrender is tricky. On the one hand, it shouldn't be a struggle, quite the opposite in fact, it's a beautiful thing. But it's also challenging and emotionally painful due to all your attachments. Way I see it, it boils down to being able to realize and accept that all this 'hell' is really just perception and a part of your own self/reality, no better or worse than any other. Hell is not devoid of love, the love is there, you're just blind to it because you're too busy attaching negative meanings to the events around. But be extra careful with all this when in an unstable mental state, could end up doing more harm then good. If you're expecting hell, it just might become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Trust your intuition and assessment of your current capabilities, if you don't feel up to it then it's wise to back off for a time. 

[Davino]

@BlurryBoi Only when it is manifested as all loss is there hope for It to manifest as all gain

[Keryo Koffa]

@BlurryBoi Since you're facing deep existential fears and don't know how to go about surrender, let me tell you a story about my own similar conundrum from half a year ago where I went completely overboard with psychedelics and it was absolutely crazy, scary and fascinating. Everyone on the forum was talking about figuring out reality being a waste of time and the only action to take being surrender. The way I interpreted that was that everything was that everything is an illusion and I was literally meant to dissolve into nothingness, thinking that's the ultimate point of life. So I went ahead and chugged 75g of truffles with orange juice to initiate the gulp reflex in three moves with the sheer intention to let go of everything I cared about, everything I knew, thinking, feeling, understanding and unexist myself. I put on hardcore breakcore music and decided to speedrun letting go.

I sat down on the bed and asked myself some questions about god, it seemed like answers were coming through me but from another source. I decided to visit a random actualized.org forum post but couldn't read because it was literally made of hieroglyphs, I focused very closely on a specific segment and it said something akin to "You are not self" and "There is no self", I couldn't read anything around it, it all looked like Allison Grey's secret writing. I lied down, barely managed to find the music, put it on and closed my eyes. I confronted different parts of myself externalized, they took form of alien lifeforms geometrically centered around a specific trait and weakness. The psychic was a fool, the strong one was weak, the loving one was monstrous, the happy one was useless, the content one created backlash, the strategic one was reckless, the alien one I became. For the next hours I found myself in alien dimensions exploring microscopic life, the structure of DNA and epigenetic variability, sacred geometry, esoteric knowledge and non-euclidian space. From time to time I had to run to the toilet and purge. Eventually, I was fine and lied down again. This time, I saw a terrifying monster but I became the buddha, I saw that monster as a distraction from becoming nothing, it had countless terrifying rectangular eyes all looking at me from different angles, but I wondered, a predator would simply kill me, this one looks scary but that's not effective, what's the purpose of looking scary anyway? It's a distraction! So I dismissed it with the peace of buddha and moved away from it. Then it became small and whimpered, like leaving it behind would kill it and it was only trying to survive, but it stood between me and enlightenment, I identified it as not an entity but a materialized mechanic ego defenses mechanism, so I dismissed it and became nothing, but not completely yet. Or at least I was merging in and out of existence. I became a mirror reflection, a crystal, a singular beam of light, the concept of gender, the loop of time, I didn't give up all parts of me yet, there were still lenses through which I saw reality. I saw time as a loop, everything repeating endlessly, every day identical until the end of time, every action taken later forgotten to be repeated, limbo. I needed to find a way to make progress, I would wake up and fall asleep again, waking up in the same loop with the same thoughts but I needed to become nothing. I thought about my parents and how I'd never make progress, repeating the same cycle, never getting anywhere. I woke up for a minute and then get overstimulated to the degree I'd end up in the same bed out of existence, then wake up the same way. I wouldn't know if I was repeating the same thing or actually made a change, but the loop seemed inevitable, I'd end up going through the same motions with the clock pointing at the same time, forever and forgetting, waking up again, putting on socks, preparing to step out of the room, only to not want to meet anyone in that state, going in a circle, but everything back and end up the same way in the bed. Like I'd never snap out of it, limbo. I felt like my kid self, I felt like I really screwed up, I felt like I disappointed my parents, well hypothetically since I'd never see them again stuck in limbo. This kept happening forever. At some point I was waking up for half a second longer than last time, this time I showed myself self-compassion, falling into bed all my worries dissolved and I felt so much love, I saw that love as the point of femininity, that being nothing and needing nothing was one polarity of existence experiencing absolute love and satiation through non-existence, then I woke up and felt stronger and more capable and saw this as the point of masculinity, making progress and the capability of bearing ever greater burdens and feeling equal but opposite maximum love as a result, maxing out my potential and capacities. I oscillated between nothingness and reality materializing for ever greater periods with ever greater capacities for activity and experience. I felt perfect because nothingness was absolute love but so was somethingness, the only problem would be to expect something of myself that lied outside of my experience but since reality was such a small bubble at the time and I was all of it at all times, I felt content. Eventually I returned for much longer periods, and my field of perception returned from being a vibrating sea of liquid mercury making up all surfaces into their normal detailed forms. I was disappointed, because I now experienced there being reality outside of my field of awareness, but on the upside I was now back to being able to make sense of reality and being aware of all the parts of life I lost. I looked at the clock, 6 hours had passed. This might have given me some existential angst, but really I was fine afterwards, a little traumatized maybe, but it was also deeply exhilarating. In retrospect, it was that time loop that was the worst imaginable thing to me, but every other part was amazing. Well, there was another part I didn't mention where I had the idea that every possible belief and counter-belief had to be true simultaneously and there'd have to be a transcendent one that included both and I could not utter a single word or concept or idea without compulsively accounting for the opposite anti-idea and making everything Non-Dual.

What I learned from succeeding trips, dissociatives, new paradigms and self transformation:

What doesn't kill you (or cripple you) makes you stronger, but you can be tempted to end yourself

Psychedelic love is addictive, you need to find the traumas the keep you from it when you're sober

Dissociatives are great tools for detachment and as a result finding all the resistance blocks inside

If you do a lot, you'll go through a Dark Night of the Soul, fighting apathy, anhedonia, meaninglessness

You can end up feeling utterly worthless and incompetent, feeling like you're the worst person alive

You can also experience lots of fear, paranoia, projections, hallucinations, shadow entities and scary stuff

You need to build up a universal sense of awareness and observe whatever happens with control and contentment

Dissociatives are more effective at dealing with trauma, while psychedelics raise awareness and access new paradigms

Dissociatives still need awareness to keep up that state of mind and face the underlying trauma and resolve it for good

Combining dissociatives and psychedelics responsibly makes for a great combo for the release of the authentic self

That combo specifically overrides self-suppression, confess all your reasons you are the way you are when on them

Honestly look into your past to find the root of your beliefs and reasons you self-suppress in the present

These are tools, you can do without, but they're powerful catalysts that overpower those barriers that keep you shackled

This trip helped, but it took many many more to heal me and lots of self-understanding and experimentation

My suggestions:

Learn the basics of IFS Therapy off YouTube, it's a good framework for self-understanding, compassion and healing

Experiment with reasonable amounts of Dissociatives, but remember that you're supposed to feel that way sober

Set time aside, set and setting matter a lot, don't judge yourself too harshly, observe arising emotions

Understand the sources of your troubles, be honest, be shameless, at least with yourself, be unreasonable but truthful

Journal, take a look at your past, your motivations, your desires, what you authentically love and want and yearn for

Sometimes, you are the one separating yourself from parts of yourself and seeking them in the outside world. In those cases, you can give up the pursuit and find them inside, but this costs emotional labor and feels deeply dissatisfying. Dissociatives dissociate you, psychedelics raise your awareness, use them for understanding and detachment to see yourself from the outside are that desires are a part of you but you are not your desires and you are the one separating yourself from happiness without being aware of it because you are tying your joy to an external experience you can't access and that is what you need to let go of and surrender, that's why it's hard.

 

The nature of surrender is giving up the pursuit of the things you seek on the outside and instead focus on the process of living instead of achieving, this can feel deeply dissatisfying at first, because you are giving up on your passions, or at least that's what it feels like, but actually you're just giving up on the results, instead choosing to focus on the process and finding joy in it instead of needing the outcomes for happiness. You also need to become more self-compassionate and this can look selfish, you need to put yourself first. Your entire life may change, but is knowing more ever a bad thing? It gives you choices, options and understanding, if nothing more, seek self-understanding of what makes you you. As Leo once said "Awareness itself is curative" if you do enough of it.

[BlurryBoi]

@Davino Amen to that

[BlurryBoi]

@Keryo Koffa lot of good things, thanks !

 

I'm seriously starting to evolve my perspective on the role of those different tools/substances and their respective inadequacies, and possible Synergies.

[Someone here]

@BlurryBoiThere is a huge peace that comes with discovering that you are not in control. These days I'm walking around with a constant mild smile in my face.. Observing the show and completely seeing it for what it is. 

Surrender IS Love 😍 

The ego thinks when you Surrender your whole practical life will collapse and bad things will happen...because how can you function without ego ? Right ?

Well you have to get your priorities straight.  Either you care about playing deceptive ego games like 99% of people or you want to be shot straight to liberation.

But to better answer your question pertaining to your own life situation..can you please elaborate on what exactly is going on in your life that made you disillusioned by the material world and want to pursue the spiritual way ?

[enchanted]

On 02/06/2024 at 0:01 PM, BlurryBoi said:

I'm asking because (not an exageration) i've been burning-out from being stuck to go through a hellish stage of life, profoundly devoid of Love.

And lately i've been close to my limit and starting to really surrender (painfully), but each time i'm deeply surrendering i get to the point where i'm at a threshold to an existential cliff, and it feels 100% devoid of this (nutritional/healthy) Love.

 

So it really feels like behind that threshold can be a boundless Bad-Trip for someone already traumatised/exhausted/unable to Love. (I wouldnt be suprised if complete surrender releases DMT from the brain, and i understand that you gotta be real careful about triping while ill)

Kind of like i would finally let open the floodgates of hell (wich is passing by my mind everyday) to corrupt/penetrate my mind and soul into hellish insanity. (Through LOVE of course )

 

So the inquiry here is : maybe its not enought to "just surrender and everything will be ok", maybe you need to do it skillfully/wisely/lovingly if your gonna 100% surrender, or your might get foolishly corrupted/consummed by a crocodile/hell who's been lingering for the moment you vulnerably give up your survival/mind/soul.

 

Thanks for your wisdom/experience about this

100% surrender is basically what love is. No limits, no conditions, just 100% surrender. 

[Inliytened1]

On 6/2/2024 at 11:01 AM, BlurryBoi said:

I'm asking because (not an exageration) i've been burning-out from being stuck to go through a hellish stage of life, profoundly devoid of Love.

And lately i've been close to my limit and starting to really surrender (painfully), but each time i'm deeply surrendering i get to the point where i'm at a threshold to an existential cliff, and it feels 100% devoid of this (nutritional/healthy) Love.

 

So it really feels like behind that threshold can be a boundless Bad-Trip for someone already traumatised/exhausted/unable to Love. (I wouldnt be suprised if complete surrender releases DMT from the brain, and i understand that you gotta be real careful about triping while ill)

Kind of like i would finally let open the floodgates of hell (wich is passing by my mind everyday) to corrupt/penetrate my mind and soul into hellish insanity. (Through LOVE of course )

 

So the inquiry here is : maybe its not enought to "just surrender and everything will be ok", maybe you need to do it skillfully/wisely/lovingly if your gonna 100% surrender, or your might get foolishly corrupted/consummed by a crocodile/hell who's been lingering for the moment you vulnerably give up your survival/mind/soul.

 

Thanks for your wisdom/experience about this

You're gonna end up the same..but doing it wisely will cause less suffering.  I however, am a proponent of suffering because it carries with it growth.  So..totally up to you.   But of you brute force shit with no intelligence it's gonna be painful but actually leads to greater intelligence and wisdom in fhe end.   It's a mind fuck.

Edited June 7, 2024 by Inliytened1

[creativepursuit]

@BlurryBoi I love your question and dilemma.

Surrender creates a home to return to.

Surrender builds more empathy in you, and other people around you will benefit from it when you decide to pursue something.

The most scary part is that surrendering in love makes you realise the polarity between suffering and pleasure; ultimately, the distinctions fall.

I prefer this non-dual state because it is not empty.

But sometimes I question if its just another dream, and what will actually occur if the love starts to actualize in reality? Will I be able to handle it?

Perhaps surrender for the surrender sake?