Why You Should Stop Meditating

[r0ckyreed]

I used to engage in a meditation practice. But I recently discovered that meditation is a waste of time. I realized that I get the same benefits if not more when I go out, hike in nature, and contemplate consciousness. 

Contemplation, exercising in nature, and socializing have been my 3 greatest spiritual practices. 

Here is a simple example why meditation is a waste of time. Imagine that you are playing an open world video game like Skyrim. Imagine just sitting your character up with the greybreards for the entire game just meditating. Do you see how limited your experience would be? You wouldn’t get the character development that you need to grow if you just play the whole game up meditating with the graybeards. 

Life is too short to become a monk drone. There is so much of life to experience and so much growth. When you are meditating, you are not doing something else such as exercising, socializing, fulfilling your life purpose, etc. 

Now, of course, brief meditation won’t harm you, but I don’t see how it could help you any more than contemplation. Contemplation is the art of understanding and curiosity. How can you be curious with a silent mind? Do you see how if you just meditate all day, you won’t be thinking and contemplating deeply. You won’t get off the cushion and enjoy life out in nature. Essentially, your life is no different than you being in prison, except this is a prison of your own choosing.

There is more to life than staring at a cave wall. Notice how unintelligent of a life this would be. You wouldn’t even watch a video game streamer do this.

Something to think about.

Edited June 1 by r0ckyreed

[Someone here]

@r0ckyreed I see your point . But are you aware of Osho's dynamic meditation? 

When you think of meditation you probably imagine someone sitting in stillness and silence with a look of serenity on their face. But  Osho's dynamic meditation is not that. It  Involves chaotic breathing..screaming  and crying and shouting  to express  everything out of your heart.it’s a far cry from sitting on a fringed cushion and loading up your Headspace app.

[r0ckyreed]

10 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@r0ckyreed I see your point . But are you aware of Osho's dynamic meditation? 

When you think of meditation you probably imagine someone sitting in stillness and silence with a look of serenity on their face. But  Osho's dynamic meditation is not that. It  Involves chaotic breathing..screaming  and crying and shouting  to express  everything out of your heart.it’s a far cry from sitting on a fringed cushion and loading up your Headspace app.

I have done it. Osho defines everything as meditation. He even defines running and dancing as a meditation. When in reality, it is just applying mindfulness to whatever you are doing. We need to be careful in defining everything as a meditation because then that term becomes meaningless and immeasurable.

Imagine playing an entire video game where all you are doing is doing dynamic meditation. Now, imagine a video game where you are engaged in deep contemplation and are going out in nature trying to explore, enjoy, and understand consciousness. There is a difference.

Brief meditation may be beneficial if you cannot function on a basic psychological level such as controlling your own thoughts and urges, not having suicidal ideation, etc. However, extensive meditation, a life built around meditation, becomes limiting.

I was even thinking about this when I was meditating in a national park. I was like “why should I close my eyes and count my breath when I have such beauty I can observe, enjoy, and contemplate right in front of me? To meditate the entire time I am here in Yosemite, I would deeply regret that and not going out to enjoy the park.”

Edited June 1 by r0ckyreed

[r0ckyreed]

And keep in mind guys, I am not just picking on meditation. Anything to the extreme is a trap. Reading books all day everyday becomes limiting. Same with videogames. Contemplation done correctly won’t ever be a waste of time. If your contemplation isn’t transforming you and getting you to take action, then your contemplation practice needs to change or it will turn into toxic meditation as well.

[Someone here]

14 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

I have done it. Osho defines everything as meditation. He even defines running and dancing as a meditation. When in reality, it is just applying mindfulness to whatever you are doing. We need to be careful in defining everything as a meditation because then that term becomes meaningless and immeasurable.

Imagine playing an entire video game where all you are doing is doing dynamic meditation. Now, imagine a video game where you are engaged in deep contemplation and are going out in nature trying to explore, enjoy, and understand consciousness. There is a difference.

Brief meditation may be beneficial if you cannot function on a basic psychological level such as controlling your own thoughts and urges, not having suicidal ideation, etc.

 

To me.. meditation is exactly like breathing. So whatsoever you are doing and wherever you are..do it more consciously.

For example..I can raise this hand without any consciousness..just unconsciously.. out of habit. But you can raise your hand with full awareness..and you can see the difference between the two. The act is the same: one is mechanical..the other is full of consciousness.and the quality is tremendously different. Try it..because it is a question of taste and experience. Walking..just ust try for a few minutes to walk consciously. Each step be alert and you will be surprised that the quality of your walk is totally different.it is relaxed. There is no tension and there is a subtle joy that is arising out of your relaxed walking. 

[Ishanga]

@r0ckyreed First define "Meditation", in Yogic science there are many forms of Sadhana or Spiritual practice, here in the West when one says Meditation, most are thinking cross legged sitting, back straight, eyes closed, slow breathing, but from outside looking at someone doing this, many things can be going on with this person, maybe they are just sleeping while sitting upright!

Second, any Guru or Spiritual guide will not tell someone today to just sit somewhere with eyes closed and doing no activity for all of their time during the day, this would be the same as telling someone to stop breathing, it just won't work in today's world,,very few ppl can do this sort of sadhana, but they can incorporate a bit of it in their daily routine, just sitting and observing thoughts, being mindful for 15-30 min a day can get one started on the basics, but there are much more complex and sophisticated methods and techniques as well that don't require all day sitting, there are moving methods, sitting methods, doing and none doing methods, lying down methods and contemplation methods,, as well one can make there work and everyday activity a part of their Sadhana, even brushing Your teeth can be a sadhana of sorts if you want it too be, lots of this is about Presence and Intensity...

Edited June 1 by Ishanga

[r0ckyreed]

I think I may have overstepped a bit. Meditation should be about being more present in life, connecting deeply to the eternal now. However, I have troubles with people overglamorizing meditation and making it about shutting up the mind. 

I do agree with you all on being the mindful and not mechanical. But I think meditation gets overglamorized. It should be as simple as engaging one’s curiosity and asking thoughtful questions with the goal of understanding.

Edited June 1 by r0ckyreed

[r0ckyreed]

I even asked Claude 3 Ai on the differences between meditation and contemplation and it gave me this:

The key differences between meditation and contemplation are:

1. Mental engagement: Meditation aims to quiet the mind and reduce thinking by focusing on a single point like the breath. Contemplation actively engages the mind in deep reflection on an idea or question.

2. Goal: The main goal of meditation is cultivating mindfulness, awareness, and inner stillness. Contemplation seeks to gain new insights and understanding that can transform one's perspective. 

3. Role of thought: In meditation, the aim is to observe thoughts without getting caught up in them. Contemplation deliberately uses thought, analysis and questioning to thoroughly examine a topic from many angles.

4. Focus: Meditation usually has a single, simple focus like a mantra or sensation. Contemplation explores a more complex theme or open-ended question.

5. Activity: Meditation is often a formal seated practice done for a set time with closed eyes. Contemplation can happen spontaneously during activities like walking in nature when one reflects deeply on something.

So in summary, meditation quiets the mind and develops awareness, equanimity and presence. Contemplation uses active reflection to gain understanding and insight that can motivate growth and change. Both are valuable and can complement each other as part of a thoughtful approach to deepening wisdom and self-knowledge. The key is using them skillfully in a balanced way rather than going to an extreme with either.

[Breakingthewall]

Maybe now is not your moment to get deep in meditation. 

[bambi]

I wuld disagree with your understanding of meditation. The aim is not to queit the mind, this is a misconception held by many. Meditation is basically learning to be with yourself in deeper and deeper ways, its surrendering/letting go/accepting. This can to take formal ways i.e. sitting on your couch in silence and darkness for 2 hrs, or informla ways being in nature by yourself and being immersed.

Ultimately, formal meditation is formal continuss micro acts of surrender and letting go, thoughts, feelings, identites, energtetic tensions etc etc

[Ishanga]

13 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

I even asked Claude 3 Ai on the differences between meditation and contemplation and it gave me this:

The key differences between meditation and contemplation are:

1. Mental engagement: Meditation aims to quiet the mind and reduce thinking by focusing on a single point like the breath. Contemplation actively engages the mind in deep reflection on an idea or question.

2. Goal: The main goal of meditation is cultivating mindfulness, awareness, and inner stillness. Contemplation seeks to gain new insights and understanding that can transform one's perspective. 

3. Role of thought: In meditation, the aim is to observe thoughts without getting caught up in them. Contemplation deliberately uses thought, analysis and questioning to thoroughly examine a topic from many angles.

4. Focus: Meditation usually has a single, simple focus like a mantra or sensation. Contemplation explores a more complex theme or open-ended question.

5. Activity: Meditation is often a formal seated practice done for a set time with closed eyes. Contemplation can happen spontaneously during activities like walking in nature when one reflects deeply on something.

So in summary, meditation quiets the mind and develops awareness, equanimity and presence. Contemplation uses active reflection to gain understanding and insight that can motivate growth and change. Both are valuable and can complement each other as part of a thoughtful approach to deepening wisdom and self-knowledge. The key is using them skillfully in a balanced way rather than going to an extreme with either.

In this day and age, its almost impossible for ppl to reduce their thinking process, they are very addicted to their intellect and thought process, they believe and identify it as themselves, so once you do that, nothing will help You get rid of it, sitting with eyes closed and focus on breathing may help you in that moment but it won't stop the process unless you dis identify with it completely, or you create a space btwn what is You and what is not You, I am not the Body, I am not the Mind, then a distance is created, this is akin to turning down the volume on something, the noise is still there but no longer as intensely felt or experienced, this is more of a practical solution to it then trying to stop thinking and thoughts altogether... 

One wants to be "Meditative" which means You inner experience is that of Ease, Peaceful, your accepting of things naturally, You live Now naturally, use past to learn from, plan for future, You Respond to Life, not React and compulsively, that is what being "Meditative" means...

[r0ckyreed]

4 hours ago, bambi said:

I wuld disagree with your understanding of meditation. The aim is not to queit the mind, this is a misconception held by many. Meditation is basically learning to be with yourself in deeper and deeper ways, its surrendering/letting go/accepting. This can to take formal ways i.e. sitting on your couch in silence and darkness for 2 hrs, or informla ways being in nature by yourself and being immersed.

Ultimately, formal meditation is formal continuss micro acts of surrender and letting go, thoughts, feelings, identites, energtetic tensions etc etc

My understanding came from many different sources. We are essentially saying the same things. You are letting go of thoughts and as much your mind becomes quieter. I am against this. I think we should use our mind and not let it go. I think we should contemplate our identity rather than let it go. You are gonna be an ego, you might as well be a conscious ego. Sitting on the couch for 2 hours is a waste of time. I have meditated for 5 hours straight and got no benefit from it. I actually get more benefit sitting with a journal and contemplating. If you call that meditation, then what isn’t meditation. I wouldn’t call contemplation a meditation because it is a different technique and paradigm all together. This will lead us into the problem of what isn’t a meditation and then the word meditation loses all meaning because everything is a meditation. Meditation refers to a specific practice that you do to quiet the mind and become more present to the moment.

[r0ckyreed]

1 hour ago, Ishanga said:

In this day and age, its almost impossible for ppl to reduce their thinking process, they are very addicted to their intellect and thought process, they believe and identify it as themselves, so once you do that, nothing will help You get rid of it, sitting with eyes closed and focus on breathing may help you in that moment but it won't stop the process unless you dis identify with it completely, or you create a space btwn what is You and what is not You, I am not the Body, I am not the Mind, then a distance is created, this is akin to turning down the volume on something, the noise is still there but no longer as intensely felt or experienced, this is more of a practical solution to it then trying to stop thinking and thoughts altogether... 

One wants to be "Meditative" which means You inner experience is that of Ease, Peaceful, your accepting of things naturally, You live Now naturally, use past to learn from, plan for future, You Respond to Life, not React and compulsively, that is what being "Meditative" means...

But you are the Universe. You are everything. The issue with the Netti Netti practice is that it creates a subtle, overlooked duality between that which you are and that which you aren’t. You are your thoughts, your body, the tree, the stars, the solar system. The issue is that there is an attachment to your thoughts and body over everything else that prevents you from seeing your identity as being the Universe having a human experience.

[Ishanga]

12 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

But you are the Universe. You are everything. The issue with the Netti Netti practice is that it creates a subtle, overlooked duality between that which you are and that which you aren’t. You are your thoughts, your body, the tree, the stars, the solar system. The issue is that there is an attachment to your thoughts and body over everything else that prevents you from seeing your identity as being the Universe having a human experience.

yes I am the universe, not the body or mind both of which are accumulated things, body via food, mind via 5 sense input data streams, we are not anything that we have accumulated or gathered, so yes we want that Awareness of what we are and what we are Not, at the least we want to know what we are Not, then find out thru Awareness what we are, but not too intellectualize it, label it as this or that, just via Experience... If I am my thoughts, what of the 60K+/day thoughts am I? This is too fragmented, too surface level, we are more subtle than that for sure,, Awareness is like another form of Intelligence, one that is non calculating and intellectual based, its on another level that we have access to...

here is a blog from the Self Improvement section good read on what a daily meditation practice can do for one... 

 

Edited June 2 by Ishanga

[Ulax]

Have you tried Shinzen young's see hear feel method?

[Javfly33]

33 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

You are your thoughts, your body, the tree, the stars, the solar system. 

No.

@r0ckyreed

[Daniel123]

A formal meditation practice makes me much calmer and more receptive to the wonders and magic of life.

I notice almost immediately when I let my daily meditation habit slip, my ego comes to the foreground and I become entangled in drama and thoughts more easily, distracting from the beauty that surrounds me. It gets a lot harder to be conscious and present when interacting with the world.

I find there are times in my life when I am drawn deeply into silence and long formal meditations and then other times when I am more drawn into expressing my cultivated love outwardly in different domains.

[r0ckyreed]

1 hour ago, Ishanga said:

yes I am the universe, not the body or mind

You are everything. Everything you see, hear, smell, touch, taste, think, feel is you, Infinite Mind.

1 hour ago, Ulax said:

Have you tried Shinzen young's see hear feel method?

Yes. It is a good one. However, Contemplation works much better for me as it is natural for me to think and ponder deep questions. It is hard for me to quiet my curiosity, and I don't think I want to.

37 minutes ago, Daniel123 said:

A formal meditation practice makes me much calmer and more receptive to the wonders and magic of life.

I notice almost immediately when I let my daily meditation habit slip, my ego comes to the foreground and I become entangled in drama and thoughts more easily, distracting from the beauty that surrounds me. It gets a lot harder to be conscious and present when interacting with the world.

I find there are times in my life when I am drawn deeply into silence and long formal meditations and then other times when I am more drawn into expressing my cultivated love outwardly in different domains.

Beautiful. We all have unique experiences. Every once and a while, I will do a brief meditation practice, but like I said, I don't want my life to be centered around quieting my curiosity. I want to expand my curiosity, and I find that contemplation is the right practice for me. Meditation is usually a waste of time except for moments where I need to relax into stillness.

[Ishanga]

@r0ckyreed Infinity Mind, is that like Infinite Intelligence of sorts? Thoughts are just thoughts, automatically generated by our brains, via an advanced Intellect that we are born with, to help us figure out how to survive another day since we are so weak physically incapable in nature compared to other life, we need this super advanced thinking intellect to survive and advance, now its brought us where we are today generally in the world, in a big heap of TROUBLE!, because we think this is what we are when we are not...

My contemplation practice takes place at work and here, I read something the is different or unique and it makes me contemplate it, so I use this place for that and too observe reactions to things that are said, it brings forth my egoic nature and I observe it and try to create space btwn what is observed and observer..

[Water by the River]

Imagine...

We are on a forum called Actualized.

We agree that there is something like Infinite Being. Absolute Reality.

Which can be realized in Awakened Nondual States. Which (as a lucky coincidence) are also supposed the reduce suffering dramatically. At least according to the testament of thousands of people over the millenia.

And more or less the only way to generate stable nondual awakened states in daily life is meditation. Or cutting off the internal bla-bla that most of the time talks me/mine. And this me/mine is by definition a part, a broken fractal of Infinite Being.

Contemplation will never cause the awakened nondual states that are necessary for the realization of Infinite Being. At least for all non-prodigies. Contemplation is a necessary and good starting point. And it comes in every tradition I am aware of before serious meditation starts.

It is ok if one doesn't have the discipline or Karma to seriously engage in this path. Or engage it later.

But belittling meditation and/or those who actually seriously engage in it... oh well. Brings great Karma for sure.

Something to think about?

 

2 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

But you are the Universe. You are everything. The issue with the Netti Netti practice is that it creates a subtle, overlooked duality between that which you are and that which you aren’t. You are your thoughts, your body, the tree, the stars, the solar system. The issue is that there is an attachment to your thoughts and body over everything else that prevents you from seeing your identity as being the Universe having a human experience.

How did this kind of contemplation work so far in creating serious nondual awakened states? And no, small you is not everything. That is just new cloths for the conceptual identity of a separate-self.

Why is it that every single meditation tradition does something like neti-neti to get rid of false identity (and any identity at all btw., since Infinite Being has no Identity)?

Well, I guess you are young. Life automatically brings along some crocodiles that bite sufficiently enough to challenge any assumption that contemplation alone is enough. The smart way is to start meditating before the crocodiles show up. Because...

... there are crocodiles in the River, that will always bite every single being, sooner or later.