Can you intuit non duality ?

[Davino]

@Leo Gura I think there are much better examples of high consciousness from birth. In fact, I've always thought that the avatar traditions all around the world could easily be explained by such phenomenon. Individuals being born with exceptionally high consciousness by default.

[Nemra]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

As I said elsewhere, state drives everything you do and are capable of.

Wouldn't a person who has had a high baseline since childhood become locked into paradigms throughout their life? Kids get indoctrinated all the time. Or does the state help you see through the indoctrination eventually, with or without someone's help?

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Nemra said:

Wouldn't a person who has had a high baseline since childhood become locked into paradigms throughout their life?

Less so than a normie.

But mystical people do fall into New Age types of paradigms quite easily.

[Clarence]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Less so than a normie.

But mystical people do fall into New Age types of paradigms quite easily.

Could you give an exemple of a New Age type of paradigm?

I am not certain to know what those are and what precisely is meant by New Age.

For exemple, would believing in past lives and reincarnation - or at least, in the possibility of it here (as there are verified cases of people remembering their past lives) be considered a New Age type of paradigm?

Edited June 2 by Clarence

[QandC]

@Sugarcoat Yes. 

I intuited it before I had my first awakening experience. It not a feeling, not a thought, but if you just look out into your world, and you stop labeling everything, and only look at the colors around you, you will notice that there is no separation between you or anything else. 

If you can, you can. If you can't, you can't. 

Imagine a pool of sand. Inside there is a "sandman" walking around. Now, it looks separate but it's just a part of the pool of sand. Within that pool of sand, you have every shape imaginable. "The statue of David" is inside that sand pool, if you draw the right distinctions. And now imagine you are that sandman. No separation. But instead of "sand" its just consciousness. And this includes all of experience. No "depth" to it but the current experience. 

You can even go further and start noticing that sounds are not apart from feelings or sight. The current experience is infinity. Look closer and you can look at specific objects around your room without judging them, and suddenly they make no distinction between the object next to them. So it's basically just a soup of consciousness.

This is if you can intuit it. But let's not stop there shall we? 

Edited June 2 by QandC

[Water by the River]

22 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Would you agree one can intuit these things somehow?

Sure. Have a nice mushroom curry.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Clarence said:

Could you give an exemple of a New Age type of paradigm?

I am not certain to know what those are and what precisely is meant by New Age.

I've met New Age mystic types who believe they can heal people when they really can't, they just created an elaborate fantasy.

1 hour ago, Clarence said:

For exemple, would believing in past lives and reincarnation - or at least, in the possibility of it here (as there are verified cases of people remembering their past lives) be considered a New Age type of paradigm?

Maybe. Parts of it may be fantasy and parts of it may have some merit.

New Age spirituality is a giant mix of fantasy with some genuine mystical states, so it's hard to sort it out.

[Sugarcoat]

2 hours ago, QandC said:

@Sugarcoat Yes. 

I intuited it before I had my first awakening experience. It not a feeling, not a thought, but if you just look out into your world, and you stop labeling everything, and only look at the colors around you, you will notice that there is no separation between you or anything else. 

If you can, you can. If you can't, you can't. 

Imagine a pool of sand. Inside there is a "sandman" walking around. Now, it looks separate but it's just a part of the pool of sand. Within that pool of sand, you have every shape imaginable. "The statue of David" is inside that sand pool, if you draw the right distinctions. And now imagine you are that sandman. No separation. But instead of "sand" its just consciousness. And this includes all of experience. No "depth" to it but the current experience. 

You can even go further and start noticing that sounds are not apart from feelings or sight. The current experience is infinity. Look closer and you can look at specific objects around your room without judging them, and suddenly they make no distinction between the object next to them. So it's basically just a soup of consciousness.

This is if you can intuit it. But let's not stop there shall we? 

I do feel like I’m separate but still intuit the non duality . Actually becoming directly “conscious” of it is another thing I haven’t been able to

Edited June 2 by Sugarcoat

[Clarence]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I've met New Age mystic types who believe they can heal people when they really can't, they just created an elaborate fantasy.

Maybe. Parts of it may be fantasy and parts of it may have some merit.

New Age spirituality is a giant mix of fantasy with some genuine mystical states, so it's hard to sort it out.

Thanks. I sometimes have a hard time to know where exactly I stand on that because I am interested in aspects of spirituality and understanding of reality which are not discussed here (such as looking into past lives cases and desiring to remember mine). That is just one example.

I don't think I get locked into New Age paradigms though as I have a pretty deep understanding of reality compared to most people, but as my understanding of what is considered New Age and what is not is not precise, it is somehow hard to know what terms can be used (in regard of the work of Actualized.org) for those other interests in spirituality I have.

My intuition tells me it is not New Age in the way I think and learn about those things, but there is still some confusion in my mind about the exact words and expressions. I don't want to be wrong about that, especially because I created a belief from following this work that New Age is bad and something to be ashamed of, but the irony is that I don't exactly know what New Age really is (or really is not). Though I somehow intuit that too…

[Sugarcoat]

@Clarence I personally believe in some kind of reincarnation . Spirituality is so broad it is both the abstract absolute stuff and the more tangible concrete stuff in new age so ofc there’s bullshit in new age and with everything there is risk of getting stuck in paradigm but i think its good to explore different stuff , spirituality doesn’t have to only be the non dual stuff 

[Leo Gura]

46 minutes ago, Clarence said:

I created a belief from following this work that New Age is bad and something to be ashamed of,

New Age is a huge field. I wouldn't hold is so simplistically as bad or good. It's got good parts and bad parts, depending on the details and how it is done.

Imagine saying science is good or bad, or medicine is good or bad? These fields have many good and bad parts.

Obviously shaming yourself is going to be limited. Instead make a commitment to pursuing truth and cutting through fantasy. If you have that as your highest priority then things will sort themselves out. You don't need worry about being New Age as long as your genuine goal is truth-seeking. You will then naturally discover the limitions of whatever spiritual paradigms and fantasies.

You should be doing spirituality at the level of your direct experience, not by buying into spiritual narratives.

Always be asking yourself, "Is this thing grounded in my experience or is it a cool-sounding narrative that I heard from some human?"

Anything can be turned into a narrative, even enlightenment.

Edited June 2 by Leo Gura

[Someone here]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

New Age is a huge field. It wouldn't hold is so simplistically as bad or good. It's got good parts and bad parts, depending on the details and how it is done.

Imagine saying science is good or bad, or medicine is good or bad? These fields have many good and bad parts.

Obviously shaming yourself is not going to be limit. Instead make a commitment to pursuing truth and cutting through fantasy. If you have that as your highest priority then things will sort themselves out. You don't need worry about being New Age as long as your genuine goal is truth-seeking. You will then naturally discover the limitions of whatever spiritual paradigms and fantasies.

You should be doing spirituality at the levle of your direct experience, not by buying into spiritual narratives.

Always be asking yourself, "Is this thing grounded in my experience or is it a cool-sounding narrative that I heard from some human?"

Anything can be turned into a narrative, even enlightenment.

I do my best to always check myself to make sure I'm not like this. It takes genuine humility to not lose yourself. Realize how tiny and insignificant you are and how LITTLE you really know. Being awakened isn't any better than being asleep. Being asleep is natural. Awakening is painful..the truth is painful and can be alienating and I see lots of people who are aslee.. living happier lives than me and fitting in society better than me..so being awakened doesn't mean shit in terms of living a superior life.

It feels like there is a thin blurry line that separates being '"truly awakened"' and being delusional and pretentious. I don't know it myself... I don't know if being "awakened"' is just a self-help and self-empowering kind of word that leads to the trapping of oneself into a lost forest. Something certainly feels real..but it is being shrouded by a kind of cunning falseness.

Not sure if anyone will understand what I mean..but looking forward to your thoughts.

 

[Leo Gura]

Any ideas about awakening tend to be false until you have experience of many awakenings to the point where you start to understand what it is.

Even after your first awakening it's easy to misunderstand it, to spin it into some relatable human thing.

Edited June 2 by Leo Gura

[Someone here]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Any ideas about awakening tend to be false until you have experience of many awakenings to the point where you start to understand what it is.

Even after your first awakening it's easy to misunderstand it, to spin it into some relatable human thing.

"Many awakenings " . That's the whole problem. Since reality is infinite .you will never be done with awakening. How many times have you awoke from a dream surprised to discover that you were actually sleeping? 

imagine you wake up again realizing that you had merely awoke to another dream state. Imagine this continuing on..waking to more and more successive degrees of wakefulness..on and on for countless centuries.

The longer I live the more I realise I know nothing 🤣🙏

[Hojo]

I think children do but adults say its crazy so they stop. I beleive the mind gets out of non duality through dreams. When we are babies we dont know what dream or waking state it so its like we just spawn and then stuff is happening and then we fall asleep and then crazy things start happening and we cannot understand what is happening and which is taking place in which realm.

Edited June 2 by Hojo

[gettoefl]

first know it without doubt through having faith, then implement it every waking minute and it duly arrives

Quote

Awakening, perfect and complete, asks of you but a little wish that what is true be true; a little willingness to overlook what is not there; a little sigh that speaks for Heaven as a preference to this world which death and desolation seem to rule. In joyous answer will creation rise within you, to replace the world you see with Heaven, wholly perfect and complete. What is forgiveness but a willingness that truth be true? What can remain unhealed and broken from a Unity Which holds all things within Itself? There IS no such thing as sin. And every miracle is possible the instant that the Son of God perceives his wishes and the Will of God are One.

What is the Will of God? He wills His Son have everything. And this He guaranteed when He created him AS everything. It is impossible that anything be lost, if what you HAVE is what you ARE. This is the miracle by which creation became your function, sharing it with God. It is not understood apart from Him, and therefore has no meaning in this world.

Here does the Son of God ask not too much, but far too little. He would sacrifice his own identity with everything, to find a little treasure of his own. And this he cannot do without a sense of isolation, loss and loneliness. This is the treasure he has sought to find. And he could only be afraid of it. Is fear a treasure? Can uncertainty be what you WANT? Or is it a mistake about your will, and what you REALLY are?

 

[Clarence]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Imagine saying science is good or bad, or medicine is good or bad? These fields have many good and bad parts.

Yes, indeed. I hadn't thought about it that way.

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Obviously shaming yourself is going to be limited. Instead make a commitment to pursuing truth and cutting through fantasy. If you have that as your highest priority then things will sort themselves out. You don't need worry about being New Age as long as your genuine goal is truth-seeking. You will then naturally discover the limitions of whatever spiritual paradigms and fantasies.

That's helpful, thank you. The pursuit of truth is my highest priority (but currently next to healing myself and improving my psychology).

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You should be doing spirituality at the level of your direct experience, not by buying into spiritual narratives.

Always be asking yourself, "Is this thing grounded in my experience or is it a cool-sounding narrative that I heard from some human?"

That's a good point… I really wish I had some psychic abilities from birth, but I don't.

For example, I've been following the work of Matías De Stefano recently and I've been fascinated by his sharings. He remembers hundreds of his past lives and much more, and a lot of what he shares makes sense to me in a similar way that what you share as always made sense to me. Though, his whole talk and energy is very different.

However I still feel that something about being interested in that is not quite right, but I can't put my finger on what that is exactly. Maybe, but not sure, that feeling could come from the fact that I deeply know that I need to explore consciousness through psychedelics much more to verify and expand my understanding of reality in a very direct way. But I can't do that now because of my life settings. So what feels wrong could be that I feel that I should be doing psychedelics first, despite the fact that what he shares and remembers is mindblowing and fascinating.

Have you ever listened to Matías De Stefano?

I've watched several videos of him and just stumbled upon this one. I'm amazed again at the wisdom and intelligence he delivers and, right in this one, I discovered how close his understanding of God Consciousness is from your teachings, despite the method being so different as he remembers being it.

 

Edited June 2 by Clarence

[Dan502]

With Matías De Stefano, the stage orange part of me wants to write him off as deluded because so much of what he says is stuff that seems like fantasy.

I would be surprised if Matias' memories took place within what we normally think of as physical reality.

[Sugarcoat]

On 2024-06-02 at 2:21 PM, Water by the River said:

Sure. Have a nice mushroom curry.

Mushroom curry?

[Sugarcoat]

It’s crazy how this can be so clear intuitively somehow yet I can’t see through the illusion of self, if it even is an illusion .