4-HO-MiPT + MXiPr experience: Burning with Love

[LambdaDelta]

Perhaps my best trip to date, but only because it builds on top of all the previous ones. Tried to structure it as best as I could, however at some points the thing being talked about requires context, but then that context finds itself backed by the very notions it's supposed to explain. Some related themes come to mind here - strange loop, paradox, Indra's net, social matrix, etc.

For about 2 weeks prior, I haven't taken any substances, been doing pranayama, sexual transmutation, and some light meditation. Studied and contemplated various Sufi and Beguine texts. I believe all of this greatly helped set the tone. 

Close to midnight, I took 60mg of each on an empty stomach (these are very large doses), then proceeded to shower and make preparations like food, candles, and incense as I usually do while waiting for the comeup to begin. 

The beginning wasn't so great though. There were subtle, and then extreme, demonic overtones. Haunting and vivid visuals and sensations of various evil entities from mystical traditions, creepypastas, horror movies, urban legends, and so on. Point is, things were going south fast. I needed some escape. So I played Leo's Self-Love video. After a couple minutes in I managed to calm down, but then decided this won't do. Can't keep running from these fears, the time has come to integrate and transcend them. Made the counter-intuitive move to go back to those visions and attempt to apply Love to them, meaning I'd no longer hold all this ugly stuff as separate, but accept it as part of my own self and love it. Initially it was an incredibly bitter pill to swallow, akin to drinking poisoned water. However that's where burning with Love comes in, the bright white fire of consciousness lit up and burned it all away. I guess that's where the stereotypical imagery of religious nuts ranting about vanquishing evils with the divine light of God comes from. That's right, this metaphor is true, but of course their understanding is so limited that instead of burning with love they burn other people at the stake.

The rest of the trip is overwhelmingly positive. This seems to be a recurring theme in my recent experiences, things going full-circle from suffering to joy. There are good reasons for that, I'm being taught the lesson that acceptance and integration are key in spiritual practice, so I try to apply the same principles in daily life and welcome such challenges. Case in point, I never have a purely bad trip. Things get just bad enough for me to understand important truths, the negative is always recontextualized into something great, it's only a matter of time.

I preemptively forgave myself for inevitably forgetting some of the insights that would come to me during the trip. At multiple points throughout the experience I wanted to get up and write about it asap, but every time trusted myself and decided to continue, as more good stuff would surely happen. That's the fleeting nature of insight, it dissapears just as fast as it appeared. However the insights aren't really my own anyway, a lot are Leo's, and more broadly of the universe, and as such, there's an infinite capacity to produce them. This abundance means there's no need to worry about the loss of one or two - there'll always be more. Then again, each tiny part of the whole is also precious on its own, so it's wise to not be overly nonchalant either. I had an insight into how a spiritual ego may subtly co-opt the insights of others, justifying it with solipsism/nonduality for the purposes of self-aggrandizement.
Somewhere along the way I also forgave and loved everyone who bullied me at school and other annoying people.

Next came one more dip into darkness, I dove into the minds of serial killers and other 'evil' people. I've studied tons of crimes and evils of humanity and watched hours of gore of all kinds, so vividly imagining it all from their perspective was simple. I managed to love that, but in a bittersweet way. Had the circumstances been different, these people could have been contributing something to mankind instead. The suffering they cause is only to themselves, on multiple levels. The metaphysical, and also personal. These are miserable people, it's a sad state of mind when the only way one can experience love is by raping and torturing some child. But, them doing their evil stuff is ultimately what's required in the grand scheme of the universe's self-expression.

Then came two profound realizations. I grasped the nature of inanimate objects as manifestations of universal Love, which they also possses in their own way. The love of a rock is first that it accepts itself as a rock, it doesn't need to be any other way. But it's also not attached to being a rock, it doesn't mind if you grind it to dust - it doesn't have a traditional sense of self. So on the whole, the love of a rock is being a rock, and selflessly allowing itself to be used in industrial manufacturing and whatnot. As I was marveling at all this, I also realized that for God, this is the most mundane and obvious stuff ever. But at the same time it also paradoxically understands how amazing it all is. There comes the human - a limited self to whom all this is grand and mysterious. God admires itself through a human mind in the process of realizing God's (and its own) divinity. Somewhat confusing, I guess it's a bit like a two-way mirror. This plays into the theme of the mundane and divine being the same, ultimately because they're one. As I have previously discovered, the lofty 10D realms of God consciousness can actually become boring if you visit too much, while there's immense beauty on this Earth that's easy to be blind to.
Interestingly the majority of bodily sensations of love during all this were in the chest area, the heart chakra I believe.

Another thing of note is that I've had a callback to my complete solipsism awakening, which the Love reinforced and complimented perfectly, and vice-versa. A couple relevant excerpts from my notes on that: 
"I checked how solid the illusion is. Biting my hand with all my force, and feeling intense pain as a result, told me two paradoxical things. First, that there's nothing at all to pain in the sense that it wasn't some objective property of reality, it was just perception. The resulting marks quickly disappeared in the following minutes after my focus shifted elsewhere. A supernatural self-healing power? If it's not in the field of my direct experience, it's not real, quite like how the textures in a videogame are only rendered as the player approaches them. But second, at the same time there's nothing more real than pain, in the sense that it was all that was real in that moment, by which I mean what I was experiencing."
"Then I realized my complete self-referential and self-defining nature, as Yahweh, "I am that I am", the Alpha and the Omega. My birth really was the immaculate conception in the truest sense. I am all the majorities and minorities, the whites, the blacks, the asians, the straights and the gays and everything in-between. The animals, the aliens, the roads, the plants, the stars. Ultimately all of these are one and the same, adding a true meaning to equality."
"My intuitive disdain for lies, deceit, manipulation became all the more clear. All of these are in essense 'crimes' against myself. Yet at the same time I'm all the liars, cheaters, and frauds of the world, the most important fraud of them all being this very illusion. Ah, how hypocritical of me. I always disliked conflict. At least engaging in it, watching could be fun at times. I'm conflicted. What a mindfuck."
"The self-reference is so dense I'm melting and collapsing into it. It's beautiful. Brings me to tears. All the infinite layers to the illusion for me to endlessly peel away at, what more could I ask for? Yes, the illusion gets unpleasant and nasty at times. But that's part of the beauty.
The entire reason to even have this illusion is so that I can experience all the dualities that stem from it, which is something that's not possible at the absolute oneness domain, my highest nature".
These may sound somewhat egotistical and perhaps not entirely correct, but it is what it is.

At the peak I was so filled with Love, I didn't need anything at all, everything is already perfect as-is. Despite this, the fullness turned into overflowing, so I made a commitment to develop more empathy and compassion, and in general live my life to help others experience a sliver of this Love. I guess that's my life purpose in a broad sense, and the precise manifestation of it I'm still working out.

After that the comedown begun, so I took some notes while still blissing out.

A good way to sum up this trip is with one of my favorite poems, written by Fakhr al-Din Iraqi:
"Beloved, I sought you
here and there,
asked for news of you
from all I met;
then saw you through myself
and found we were identical.
Now I blush to think I ever
searched for signs of you."

Well, that's that, the work continues.

[Davino]

47 minutes ago, LambdaDelta said:

Beguine texts

What texts?

38 minutes ago, LambdaDelta said:

I preemptively forgave myself for inevitably forgetting some of the insights that would come to me during the trip

I get you. Having millions of amazing insights in a trip and then forgetting some :') 

41 minutes ago, LambdaDelta said:

Next came one more dip into darkness, I dove into the minds of serial killers and other 'evil' people. I've studied tons of crimes and evils of humanity and watched hours of gore of all kinds, so vividly imagining it all from their perspective was simple.

Mmm interesting, can you explain why you decided to investigate such minds and what was the benefit of it?

44 minutes ago, LambdaDelta said:

If it's not in the field of my direct experience, it's not real, quite like how the textures in a videogame are only rendered as the player approaches them.

That used to be my position but I'm not sure anymore.

I'm exploring with the possibility of thins being in consciousness but you are not aware of them.

Like your nose is in your visual field right now but you are not aware of it, your brains erase it, but look right now to your nose, it's always there.

- - -

Good trip report, thanks for sharing. It's good to have serious psychonauts in the forum

[LambdaDelta]

Thanks! 

 

13 minutes ago, Davino said:

What texts?

Beguines is/was a Christian mystical order of women. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beguines_and_Beghards
In particular I looked at Mechthild of Magdeburg, Hadewijch, and Marguerite Porete (eg. The Flowing Light of Divinity, The Mirror of Simple Souls)
There's also a very good YT channel that has videos on them and much more similar stuff: https://www.youtube.com/@TheEsotericaChannel

 

13 minutes ago, Davino said:

Mmm interesting, can you explain why you decided to investigate such minds and what was the benefit of it?

If you mean exploring evil minds during the trip, it was to test and deepen my capacity to love. I've never been particularly judgmental of such stuff, but that was more on the level of acceptance or simple not caring. Loving is much more challenging. Exploring them in the past has mostly been out of good old morbid curiousity and a bit of edgyness. In the end it's all for the best though, I suggest to try if you feel you're ready to handle it.  

 

13 minutes ago, Davino said:

That used to be my position but I'm not sure anymore.

I'm exploring with the possibility of thins being in consciousness but you are not aware of them.

Like your nose is in your visual field right now but you are not aware of it, your brains erase it, but look right now to your nose, it's always there.

True, I'm not exactly certain on this one either, like I said some of the solipsism insights may need revision. I'm leaving it open-ended for now. Funny you should mention the nose, once during a molly trip my brain lost the ability to filter it out, so for the entire duration I had split vision. 

Btw, I saw you say in another thread you're in Spain? That's cool, me too. I rarely see people do personal development and much less spirituality here. 
 

[Davino]

1 hour ago, LambdaDelta said:

Beguines is/was a Christian mystical order of women. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beguines_and_Beghards
In particular I looked at Mechthild of Magdeburg, Hadewijch, and Marguerite Porete (eg. The Flowing Light of Divinity, The Mirror of Simple Souls)
There's also a very good YT channel that has videos on them and much more similar stuff: https://www.youtube.com/@TheEsotericaChannel

Thanks, I also know the channel, it has been a long time since I checked him though.

1 hour ago, LambdaDelta said:

Exploring them in the past has mostly been out of good old morbid curiousity and a bit of edgyness. In the end it's all for the best though, I suggest to try if you feel you're ready to handle it.

Yeah, I get it. Sometimes is also good to explore such dark places. Consciousness is all encompassing.

1 hour ago, LambdaDelta said:

True, I'm not exactly certain on this one either, like I said some of the solipsism insights may need revision. I'm leaving it open-ended for now.

Solipsism is true what I have doubts about is on direct experience as absolute, there might be some nuances on the topic.

1 hour ago, LambdaDelta said:

Funny you should mention the nose, once during a molly trip my brain lost the ability to filter it out, so for the entire duration I had split vision. 

It's not a casual mention, it's recurrent phenomenon to become aware of the nose in given circumstances. For example, people that are said to die because of a disease they are unaware of, start noticing their nose in their visual field weeks or days before their sudden death.

There's some weird connection between becoming conscious of the unconscious and seeing your nose in your visual field.

1 hour ago, LambdaDelta said:

Btw, I saw you say in another thread you're in Spain? That's cool, me too. I rarely see people do personal development and much less spirituality here. 

It's rare everywhere! I'm currently finishing my Erasmus in Rome and I'll return home in one month. Where are you from? I'm from Barcelona

Edited May 31 by Davino

[LambdaDelta]

10 minutes ago, Davino said:

For example, people that are said to die because of a disease they are unaware of, start noticing their nose in their visual field weeks or days before their sudden death.

Interesting! Did not know that.

 

10 minutes ago, Davino said:

I'm currently finishing my Erasmus in Rome and I'll return home in one month. Where are you from? I'm from Barcelona

Awesome. I'm originally from Russia, now living in Madrid, also studying in uni, although somewhat half-assedly

[James123]

3 hours ago, LambdaDelta said:

Perhaps my best trip to date, but only because it builds on top of all the previous ones. Tried to structure it as best as I could, however at some points the thing being talked about requires context, but then that context finds itself backed by the very notions it's supposed to explain. Some related themes come to mind here - strange loop, paradox, Indra's net, social matrix, etc.

For about 2 weeks prior, I haven't taken any substances, been doing pranayama, sexual transmutation, and some light meditation. Studied and contemplated various Sufi and Beguine texts. I believe all of this greatly helped set the tone. 

Close to midnight, I took 60mg of each on an empty stomach (these are very large doses), then proceeded to shower and make preparations like food, candles, and incense as I usually do while waiting for the comeup to begin. 

The beginning wasn't so great though. There were subtle, and then extreme, demonic overtones. Haunting and vivid visuals and sensations of various evil entities from mystical traditions, creepypastas, horror movies, urban legends, and so on. Point is, things were going south fast. I needed some escape. So I played Leo's Self-Love video. After a couple minutes in I managed to calm down, but then decided this won't do. Can't keep running from these fears, the time has come to integrate and transcend them. Made the counter-intuitive move to go back to those visions and attempt to apply Love to them, meaning I'd no longer hold all this ugly stuff as separate, but accept it as part of my own self and love it. Initially it was an incredibly bitter pill to swallow, akin to drinking poisoned water. However that's where burning with Love comes in, the bright white fire of consciousness lit up and burned it all away. I guess that's where the stereotypical imagery of religious nuts ranting about vanquishing evils with the divine light of God comes from. That's right, this metaphor is true, but of course their understanding is so limited that instead of burning with love they burn other people at the stake.

The rest of the trip is overwhelmingly positive. This seems to be a recurring theme in my recent experiences, things going full-circle from suffering to joy. There are good reasons for that, I'm being taught the lesson that acceptance and integration are key in spiritual practice, so I try to apply the same principles in daily life and welcome such challenges. Case in point, I never have a purely bad trip. Things get just bad enough for me to understand important truths, the negative is always recontextualized into something great, it's only a matter of time.

I preemptively forgave myself for inevitably forgetting some of the insights that would come to me during the trip. At multiple points throughout the experience I wanted to get up and write about it asap, but every time trusted myself and decided to continue, as more good stuff would surely happen. That's the fleeting nature of insight, it dissapears just as fast as it appeared. However the insights aren't really my own anyway, a lot are Leo's, and more broadly of the universe, and as such, there's an infinite capacity to produce them. This abundance means there's no need to worry about the loss of one or two - there'll always be more. Then again, each tiny part of the whole is also precious on its own, so it's wise to not be overly nonchalant either. I had an insight into how a spiritual ego may subtly co-opt the insights of others, justifying it with solipsism/nonduality for the purposes of self-aggrandizement.
Somewhere along the way I also forgave and loved everyone who bullied me at school and other annoying people.

Next came one more dip into darkness, I dove into the minds of serial killers and other 'evil' people. I've studied tons of crimes and evils of humanity and watched hours of gore of all kinds, so vividly imagining it all from their perspective was simple. I managed to love that, but in a bittersweet way. Had the circumstances been different, these people could have been contributing something to mankind instead. The suffering they cause is only to themselves, on multiple levels. The metaphysical, and also personal. These are miserable people, it's a sad state of mind when the only way one can experience love is by raping and torturing some child. But, them doing their evil stuff is ultimately what's required in the grand scheme of the universe's self-expression.

Then came two profound realizations. I grasped the nature of inanimate objects as manifestations of universal Love, which they also possses in their own way. The love of a rock is first that it accepts itself as a rock, it doesn't need to be any other way. But it's also not attached to being a rock, it doesn't mind if you grind it to dust - it doesn't have a traditional sense of self. So on the whole, the love of a rock is being a rock, and selflessly allowing itself to be used in industrial manufacturing and whatnot. As I was marveling at all this, I also realized that for God, this is the most mundane and obvious stuff ever. But at the same time it also paradoxically understands how amazing it all is. There comes the human - a limited self to whom all this is grand and mysterious. God admires itself through a human mind in the process of realizing God's (and its own) divinity. Somewhat confusing, I guess it's a bit like a two-way mirror. This plays into the theme of the mundane and divine being the same, ultimately because they're one. As I have previously discovered, the lofty 10D realms of God consciousness can actually become boring if you visit too much, while there's immense beauty on this Earth that's easy to be blind to.
Interestingly the majority of bodily sensations of love during all this were in the chest area, the heart chakra I believe.

Another thing of note is that I've had a callback to my complete solipsism awakening, which the Love reinforced and complimented perfectly, and vice-versa. A couple relevant excerpts from my notes on that: 
"I checked how solid the illusion is. Biting my hand with all my force, and feeling intense pain as a result, told me two paradoxical things. First, that there's nothing at all to pain in the sense that it wasn't some objective property of reality, it was just perception. The resulting marks quickly disappeared in the following minutes after my focus shifted elsewhere. A supernatural self-healing power? If it's not in the field of my direct experience, it's not real, quite like how the textures in a videogame are only rendered as the player approaches them. But second, at the same time there's nothing more real than pain, in the sense that it was all that was real in that moment, by which I mean what I was experiencing."
"Then I realized my complete self-referential and self-defining nature, as Yahweh, "I am that I am", the Alpha and the Omega. My birth really was the immaculate conception in the truest sense. I am all the majorities and minorities, the whites, the blacks, the asians, the straights and the gays and everything in-between. The animals, the aliens, the roads, the plants, the stars. Ultimately all of these are one and the same, adding a true meaning to equality."
"My intuitive disdain for lies, deceit, manipulation became all the more clear. All of these are in essense 'crimes' against myself. Yet at the same time I'm all the liars, cheaters, and frauds of the world, the most important fraud of them all being this very illusion. Ah, how hypocritical of me. I always disliked conflict. At least engaging in it, watching could be fun at times. I'm conflicted. What a mindfuck."
"The self-reference is so dense I'm melting and collapsing into it. It's beautiful. Brings me to tears. All the infinite layers to the illusion for me to endlessly peel away at, what more could I ask for? Yes, the illusion gets unpleasant and nasty at times. But that's part of the beauty.
The entire reason to even have this illusion is so that I can experience all the dualities that stem from it, which is something that's not possible at the absolute oneness domain, my highest nature".
These may sound somewhat egotistical and perhaps not entirely correct, but it is what it is.

At the peak I was so filled with Love, I didn't need anything at all, everything is already perfect as-is. Despite this, the fullness turned into overflowing, so I made a commitment to develop more empathy and compassion, and in general live my life to help others experience a sliver of this Love. I guess that's my life purpose in a broad sense, and the precise manifestation of it I'm still working out.

After that the comedown begun, so I took some notes while still blissing out.

A good way to sum up this trip is with one of my favorite poems, written by Fakhr al-Din Iraqi:
"Beloved, I sought you
here and there,
asked for news of you
from all I met;
then saw you through myself
and found we were identical.
Now I blush to think I ever
searched for signs of you."

Well, that's that, the work continues.

Great work!!! Love is the purpose of creation. Go for it. Check out Rumi. 

Peace! 

Much love!

[What Am I]

3 hours ago, LambdaDelta said:

I took 60mg of each on an empty stomach

!!! People may not know the dosing to realize how crazy that is.

Awesome report. Very thoughtful, poetic, and well-written. Sounds like an amazing time overall.

What are your thoughts on 4-HO-MET in comparison to 4-HO-MiPT? I've seen a lot of people actually prefer the latter.

2 hours ago, Davino said:

Good trip report, thanks for sharing. It's good to have serious psychonauts in the forum

Strong agreement there.

Edited May 31 by What Am I

[LambdaDelta]

10 minutes ago, James123 said:

Great work!!! Love is the purpose of creation. Go for it. Check out Rumi. 

Peace! 

Much love!

Thanks brother! Love you too. I recently purchased 5/6 of Rumi's Masnavi. It's on my to-do list, hoping the final volume translation will be come soon. At the moment I'm reading Attar's Conference of the Birds, it's fucking amazing. Just in the prologue there were tons of passages that resonate deeply with my experiences and Leo's teachings. I've come to realize all this stuff has already been discovered hundreds of years ago, and described in various ways, none false, just different. 

 

7 minutes ago, What Am I said:

!!! People may not know the dosing to realize how crazy that is.

Awesome report. Very thoughtful, poetic, and well-written. Sounds like an amazing time overall.

What are your thoughts on 4-HO-MET in comparison to 4-HO-MiPT? I've seen a lot of people actually prefer the latter.

Cheers! I did say in the brackets that the doses are very high, but perhaps not empathized enough. Then again someone randomly copying others' dosages without further research might need a spank on the ass in form of a bad trip. 
As for 4-HO's, I love both, but they're slightly different. 4-HO-MET is lighter, perhaps 30% or so weaker. Also much more visual, MiPT had much less visuals, though that may be something particular to me, lately I barely get any. For deep spiritual work I think I now prefer MiPT as well, which's not to underestimate the MET.

[James123]

2 minutes ago, LambdaDelta said:

Thanks brother! Love you too. I recently purchased 5/6 of Rumi's Masnavi. It's on my to-do list, hoping the final volume translation will be come soon. At the moment I'm reading Attar's Conference of the Birds, it's fucking amazing. Just in the prologue there were tons of passages that resonate deeply with my experiences and Leo's teachings. I've come to realize all this stuff has already been discovered hundreds of years ago, and described in various ways, none false, just different. 

Did you realize what nothingness is in your trip? Of course, Mind is one big bucket. And everyone have similar experiences in this path, because direction goes to same destination. Path is same and just tradition is different.

Moreover, have you ever heard Irina tweedie? She has a book that is called daughter of fire. It is an amazing book. I read all of it and than consume 7 gr dried shrooms. Love melted me, I understand the book completely within hours. Lol. It is amazing to read and after that experience. What a beautiful ride. 

[LambdaDelta]

3 minutes ago, James123 said:

Did you realize what nothingness is in your trip? Of course, Mind is one big bucket. And everyone have similar experiences in this path, because direction goes to same destination. Path is same and just tradition is different.

Moreover, have you ever heard Irina tweedie? She has a book that is called daughter of fire. It is an amazing book. I read all of it and than consume 7 gr dried shrooms. Love melted me, I understand the book completely within hours. Lol. It is amazing to read and after that experience. What a beautiful ride. 

Not in this one, it was very much focused on Love. I've had some insights into nothingness before, though I'll admit I haven't contemplated it as deeply as some other aspects. "All Roads Lead to Rome" hehe
This book is new to me, but I'll be sure to put it on the list, premise sounds great. A lot of material to get through during this summer break!

[James123]

39 minutes ago, LambdaDelta said:

Not in this one, it was very much focused on Love. I've had some insights into nothingness before, though I'll admit I haven't contemplated it as deeply as some other aspects. "All Roads Lead to Rome" hehe
This book is new to me, but I'll be sure to put it on the list, premise sounds great. A lot of material to get through during this summer break!

Great brother!!!

Much luck to you on your journey. You will love nothingness too, just higher the pychedelics amount little bit, but of course be careful. 

Keep us updated.

Much love!

Peace!!!

Edited May 31 by James123