How Yoga works, understanding that the universe is pure Symmetry

[Javfly33]

I am beggining to suspect how Yoga works, particularly pure physical Hatha Yoga. (Not talking about energy process such as kriyas, but merely what is called as 'Asanas'.)

What is Yoga. Well, you have to do a lot to start understanding it. I have done some Asanas more than 1000 times.

For example, I suspect Cat Stretch I´ve done it about 1200-1300 times. Maybe 1500 times. I´m not sure. So Is not like I´m talking from nothing. 

It seems exaggerated but understanding really what Yoga is does take some time. 
At first I believed the intention of Asanas was to clear and calm the mind in order for a higher perception or consciousness to happen, but that is a very basic understanding. 

After some time a whole new possibility opens up. Something much much much more profound of what you thought at the beggining Yoga was. 

When doing an Asana properly, the belief or feeling of individuality is dissolved (yeah, that goes for all of you solipsistic dudes out there).

Why it dissolves is not because it does something to the brain. 

Is because physically and energetically you are putting your body in such a way that is completely in synchrony and symmetry with Reality. 

Is not that you unite yourself with Reality. Is that the body merges and dissolves right there.

It was already 'dissolved' in the first place. You were already in Unity or 'One' with reality in the first place. But, the usual asymmetry of the human system, which in part is necessary for the process of survival (let´s remember, survival is about you vs me), makes it like you are not.. 

So it is created a sense of individuality through the life of a human. And most humans never break or dissolve this sense of individuality.

Notice im saying 'sense'. Individuality is not a reality. Is not a fact. It is just a sense, a compression that is formed. But if you align the body and the whole system in such a way, this sense of individuality or separation gets completely seen through and dissolved. 

From holding Asanas a lot of information can enter you. Just like with a Psychedelic.

For example, you can 'download' information in the sense that the whole Reality is just like a mirror. A Infinite Diamond Mirror. 

This is kind of impossible to explain, so let´s leave that as a motivator for people to start a Hatha Yoga practice. 

One day you will understand things that no book can transmit you. Neither I am because words are dual. Only through a direct experience of symmetry you can understand.

This will not only make your life more profound, it will give you an understanding of non duality, unity, God, etc... that it will be very sticky. It won´t be just like a state of consciousness that you can lose. It is a certain information that makes all the pieces 'fit'. 

Is not intellectual information, is something else, is much more...real. More clear. Is like you get direct connection to the hard drive of infinity, and you download it into your mind. 

The Universe is symmetry, perfect balance. For you grasp it, you have to make yourself completely symmetric and balanced within you. Then all is accessible for you. Because you are it.

I´ll meet you at the Bliss that we are. 

Edited May 30 by Javfly33

[Leo Gura]

Well said.

[Davino]

@Javfly33 Have you tried LSD+Yoga?

My most profound yogic experiences have been while on LSD. It's so intense that I usually spend hours doing spontaneous yoga non stop. I really resonte with the symmetry component, it feels like balancing my body with the universal order of things.

I understood yoga while in one of those sessions, the actual source of yoga from where all the techniques are born. There is a spontaneous intelligence in the body that aligns itself with the cosmos. It actually creates the most intrincate specific movements and asanas for self-alignment. It's actually fascinating. I'm not an expert in yoga but on LSD I spontaneously perform like a yogic master because I am in tune with this source of yoga.

I really liked this video from the longest lineage of hatha yoga still alive. It is a no-bullshit lecture from the master to sober up everyone in the room, I thought you might like it.

Edited May 31 by Davino

[Javfly33]

9 minutes ago, Davino said:

@Javfly33 Have you tried LSD+Yoga?

My most profound yogic experiences have been while on LSD. It's so intense that I usually spend hours doing spontaneous yoga non stop. I really resonte with the symmetry component, it feels like balancing my body with the universal order of things.

I think i´ve tried one time but i was too high to do it for much time lol. But i can understand you had good experiences with it, since LSD activates the energy body in a big way so it can be a way to 'shorten the gap' at the beggining. 

Because the most challenging stuff is that. When one starts one thinks is doing a merely physical exercise and not much happens. Is only when one starts to be more receptive to certain subtler parts of your body that things get interesting.

To build yourself to that level of perception and activation like the one of a psychedelic that it takes a lot of practice, although in the end is how you are supposed to do it because is more balanced and complete. 

Quote

I understood yoga while in one of those sessions, the actual source of yoga from where all the techniques are born. There is a spontaneous intelligence in the body that aligns itself with the cosmos. It actually creates the most intrincate specific movements and asanas for self-alignment. It's actually fascinating.

Yes, in a way Yoga was already 'there' before any human 'invented it' or transmit it. 

I like to say Yoga was never invented, but rather discovered. The symetry is already there from the beggining of creation.

That´s why in theory if you take a psychedelic and get somewhat conscious in a certain way, you can start doing an asana that exists but that you never saw or read anywhere before. 

Quote

I really liked this video from the longest lineage of hatha yoga still alive. It was a lecture from the master to sober up everyone in the room, I thought you might like it.

I´ll check it out thanks. 

Edited May 31 by Javfly33

[Davino]

32 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

To build yourself to that level of perception and activation like the one of a psychedelic that it takes a lot of practice, although in the end is how you are supposed to do it because is more balanced and complete. 

Yes and not all psychedelics do it. This level of yogic proficiency only happens to me on LSD.

32 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Yes, in a way Yoga was already 'there' before any human 'invented it' or transmit it. 

I feel exactly the same. My cat sometimes does yoga poses ahhaha

33 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

That´s why in theory if you take a psychedelic and get somewhat conscious in a certain way, you can start doing an asana that exists but that you never saw or read anywhere before. 

This has happened to me and even I'm sure I invented asanas designed for my body in that moment.

[OBEler]

1 hour ago, Davino said:

Yes and not all psychedelics do it. This level of yogic proficiency only happens to me on LSD.

I feel exactly the same. My cat sometimes does yoga poses ahhaha

This has happened to me and even I'm sure I invented asanas designed for my body in that moment.

On 5 Meo DMT my girlfriend does all the asanas spontaneously .5 Meo is better for that I think.

 

Also Martin ball discovered the importance of symmetry. He is famous for doing a lot of 5 meo.he never studied yoga. I think these insights are easier to get on 5 Meo.

Edited May 31 by OBEler

[Ayham]

@Javfly33 do you have any recommendations for Hatha yoga sources?

Edited May 31 by Ayham

[Javfly33]

3 hours ago, Davino said:

Yes and not all psychedelics do it. This level of yogic proficiency only happens to me on LSD.

I feel exactly the same. My cat sometimes does yoga poses ahhaha

 

Yeah probably in mushrooms doesn't happen.

 

I can imagine which one It does LoL

 

45 minutes ago, Ayham said:

@Javfly33 do you have any recommendations for Hatha yoga sources?

I learned from a teacher of isha foundation of sadhguru, can reccomend.

They have a lot of teachers around the world and they impart programs in most popular cities if you want to take a look

[koops]

Very intersting post.

When you say you did an asana +1000 times... in which context?

In classes with a teacher?

At home with youtube videos?

Or just at home by yourself when you get to a certian level?

 

Do you usually do a full class, or just one particular asana for a long time?

[Javfly33]

50 minutes ago, koops said:

Very intersting post.

When you say you did an asana +1000 times... in which context?

In classes with a teacher?

At home with youtube videos?

Or just at home by yourself when you get to a certian level?

 

Do you usually do a full class, or just one particular asana for a long time?

At home. I learned shamavhi which is a kriya initation. 

I have to do 3 asanas before a Kriya process. Since i guess i have done that Kriya with asanas about 500 times, and the cat stretch is done 3 times, 500 x 3 = 1500

One of those asanas is cat strech. If not i would not have done it so many times LoL. 

But there are really crazy dudes out there. One guy in the 20s use to do surya kriya (sun salutation) 3 hours straight non stop every morning. Now go do numbers if you do that every day for 5 years. Lmao. 

Edited May 31 by Javfly33

[Javfly33]

50 minutes ago, koops said:

 

Do you usually do a full class, or just one particular asana for a long time?

Full, but i´ve heard that if you want to go deep/master one single asana thats fine. 

Theorically, you could actually just make one single asana your way to the ultimate/infininty. Just doing one asana for all of your life  quite hardcore. 

Edited May 31 by Javfly33

[bazera]

@Javfly33 How much time do you think is necessary to more or less achieve what you describe? Like a year or two?

Also, when I do asanas, my mind is very distracted. As I understand, awareness is critical during the process. Am I right?

[Ayham]

33 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Full, but i´ve heard that if you want to go deep/master one single asana thats fine. 

Theorically, you could actually just make one single asana your way to the ultimate/infininty. Just doing one asana for all of your life  quite hardcore. 

Kriya yoga (not sadhguru version, which is only similar in name) has only one Asana, which is mahamudra, there are some kriya practicioners that only do this but a few hundred times (rare but still)

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, Ayham said:

Kriya yoga (not sadhguru version, which is only similar in name) has only one Asana, which is mahamudra, there are some kriya practicioners that only do this but a few hundred times (rare but still)

I see, thanks for sharing. I´ve tried mahamudra when doing kundalini yoga and is definetely potent. 

2 hours ago, bazera said:

@Javfly33 How much time do you think is necessary to more or less achieve what you describe? Like a year or two?

Also, when I do asanas, my mind is very distracted. As I understand, awareness is critical during the process. Am I right?

I have been doing it for 2 years more or less every day (maybe a month of two i stopped), but More important than time is to have a certain attitude / intensity to it.

That is why is important (although i don´t think neccesary) to receive it from a School/Tradition/Guru/Enlightened Teacher. 

Ideally when it is taught to you certain energy (similar to shaktipat) will be transmitted to you in that moment, which you will use as a 'fuel' to make the practice fire up.

For example, the Yoga or Shamavhi I do know has nothing to do with the one i did 2 years ago when i started.

Right now I sit everyday and it is like a Bomb. I sit and it just all goes silent, still. But i had to built up like that through these 2 years, i have made it up like that, i have thrown myself in it completely.

Overall, It is important if you start you take it as a alive spiritual process, not just like an exercise you just do everyday. Do not do it mechanically. Treat like is something that is alive. Like a seed that slowly grows into something of a magnitude you can not envision right now. 

This will be much more important than time or how much time do you do it. Of course time is important to understand how it works, but overall what i said is crucial for it to truly give results. 

If not it will still give some physical benefits of course, which a lot of people that do Yoga just do it for that. 

Edited May 31 by Javfly33

[Davino]

9 hours ago, OBEler said:

On 5 Meo DMT my girlfriend does all the asanas spontaneously .5 Meo is better for that I think.

For me LSD is the Yogic tools for excellence.

On 5meos there are good energetic releases, but nothing on the level of LSD, at all. This is in my experience, maybe the time is also important because some asanas may come in 5meo but in LSD I may be 3h+ doing yoga non stop effortlessly

[Davino]

@Javfly33 I wrote this post on symmetry some time ago in case you may want to read it:

 

[Ishanga]

On 5/30/2024 at 1:24 PM, Javfly33 said:

I am beggining to suspect how Yoga works, particularly pure physical Hatha Yoga. (Not talking about energy process such as kriyas, but merely what is called as 'Asanas'.)

What is Yoga. Well, you have to do a lot to start understanding it. I have done some Asanas more than 1000 times.

For example, I suspect Cat Stretch I´ve done it about 1200-1300 times. Maybe 1500 times. I´m not sure. So Is not like I´m talking from nothing. 

It seems exaggerated but understanding really what Yoga is does take some time. 
At first I believed the intention of Asanas was to clear and calm the mind in order for a higher perception or consciousness to happen, but that is a very basic understanding. 

After some time a whole new possibility opens up. Something much much much more profound of what you thought at the beggining Yoga was. 

When doing an Asana properly, the belief or feeling of individuality is dissolved (yeah, that goes for all of you solipsistic dudes out there).

Why it dissolves is not because it does something to the brain. 

Is because physically and energetically you are putting your body in such a way that is completely in synchrony and symmetry with Reality. 

Is not that you unite yourself with Reality. Is that the body merges and dissolves right there.

It was already 'dissolved' in the first place. You were already in Unity or 'One' with reality in the first place. But, the usual asymmetry of the human system, which in part is necessary for the process of survival (let´s remember, survival is about you vs me), makes it like you are not.. 

So it is created a sense of individuality through the life of a human. And most humans never break or dissolve this sense of individuality.

Notice im saying 'sense'. Individuality is not a reality. Is not a fact. It is just a sense, a compression that is formed. But if you align the body and the whole system in such a way, this sense of individuality or separation gets completely seen through and dissolved. 

From holding Asanas a lot of information can enter you. Just like with a Psychedelic.

For example, you can 'download' information in the sense that the whole Reality is just like a mirror. A Infinite Diamond Mirror. 

This is kind of impossible to explain, so let´s leave that as a motivator for people to start a Hatha Yoga practice. 

One day you will understand things that no book can transmit you. Neither I am because words are dual. Only through a direct experience of symmetry you can understand.

This will not only make your life more profound, it will give you an understanding of non duality, unity, God, etc... that it will be very sticky. It won´t be just like a state of consciousness that you can lose. It is a certain information that makes all the pieces 'fit'. 

Is not intellectual information, is something else, is much more...real. More clear. Is like you get direct connection to the hard drive of infinity, and you download it into your mind. 

The Universe is symmetry, perfect balance. For you grasp it, you have to make yourself completely symmetric and balanced within you. Then all is accessible for you. Because you are it.

I´ll meet you at the Bliss that we are. 

I would agree totally with Your assessment here, well said... 

Balance is about stability, once that is established bigger things can happen, this is the problem with ppl doing drug and psycedelics without this stability/balance already established, if its not then one will go into all sorts of delusions, which at times can be good, it can get one out of the circle or loop they maybe trapped in, but for many it just creates another loop which binds them into another trap...

We are really blessed to be Human Beings, I discovered when doing serious Martial Arts training, that there are secrets to how the body can be trained and then move in a particular way that produces very effective and deceptive results, a normal person looking at how the method of training works would think it is foolish and not useful, but they just can't see since they are not involved or educated on it, in martial arts Tai Chi is very advanced in this case, one of the most advanced Martial Arts on Earth, but it takes years and years of dedicated daily practice to gain mastery of it, its the same with Yoga Asanas, if you dedicate your time too it, then what may seem like a Miracle to many will be your everyday experience and ability!!

[aurum]

On 5/30/2024 at 10:24 AM, Javfly33 said:

The Universe is symmetry, perfect balance. For you grasp it, you have to make yourself completely symmetric and balanced within you. Then all is accessible for you. Because you are it.

I very much disagree with this post.

I would read a book called Yoga Body by Mark Singleton. Asanas are largely a western, modern development and NOT part of yoga as a traditional practice. 

This doesn't on its own doesn't mean that asanas are useless. But having done many hours of asana yoga myself and been around yogis doing the same, I would argue your claims are way too strong.

Asanas do not make you any more likely to download spiritual insights than just sitting comfortably or taking a walk. In fact, all those asanas can easily just become a distraction from contemplating.

You are also never going to "make yourself completely symmetric and balanced". There is no such thing in the physical body. So beware of chasing something that doesn't exist, on top of assuming it will make you enlightened.

In addition, all the physical stretching that typically comes from asanas is often not good for the body. This is especially true in schools of yoga like Ashtanga. You are basically asking for hyper-mobility problems.

 

If you want to practice asanas, just stick to the basic ones and stay away from most of the passive stretching. Keep your poses ACTIVE, i.e under your own bodily strength. And don't go down this rabbit hole of chasing more and more "advanced" poses. Huge trap.

Edited June 1 by aurum

[Javfly33]

 

8 hours ago, Ishanga said:

a normal person looking at how the method of training works would think it is foolish and not useful, but they just can't see since they are not involved or educated on it, in martial arts Tai Chi is very advanced in this case, one of the most advanced Martial Arts on Earth, but it takes years and years of dedicated daily practice to gain mastery of it, its the same with Yoga Asanas, if you dedicate your time too it, then what may seem like a Miracle to many will be your everyday experience and ability!!

Well said, can not add more to that!!

 

7 hours ago, aurum said:

Asanas do not make you any more likely to download spiritual insights than just sitting comfortably or taking a walk. In fact, all those asanas can easily just become a distraction from contemplating.

Not sure what your intention is with your post. Is not like I am writing this out of a wild guess or speculation.

You say "I would argue your claims are way too strong." but simply is too late. It happens in my experience already. Is not something I fantasize about.

 

Quote

Asanas are largely a western, modern development and NOT part of yoga as a traditional practice. 

I never said the Yoga i do is ancient or new. There are indian and tantric scriptures that date back to XI, but i definetely can not tell you if the certain asanas I do, are that old or not. My wild guess is that they were simply discovered by a Guru and transmitted it until my Guru. As I said, Yoga is not created is discovered.

The Asanas are already there, before humans even existed, because they are pure symmettry for the Absolute and deep states of non-duality. 

Btw, if they are 'largley' a western thing. Where is the other part of the 'largely' that are not a western thing? 

 

Quote

But having done many hours of asana yoga myself and been around yogis doing the same, I would argue your claims are way too strong.

This does not make any sense. You have been with Yogis but yet you say Hatha Yoga is not traditional nor it works. Then how come there are Yogis doing them? Why they are doing in the first place?

Why they are doing a failed Yoga? 

Do you even know what is a Yogui dude? Is not a guy in western california drinking matcha lattes and wearing organic cotton clothes. That doesn´t count. 😂

 

Quote

on top of assuming it will make you enlightened.

See, this is why i already had an intuition of why you made the post. I kind saw you from 500 miles ahead after reading 3 paragraphs. 

Seems you have a bit of projecting going on there. 

Although replying to your question, I never said i was enlightened nor i won´t ever probably say such a thing. 

 

13 hours ago, Davino said:

@Javfly33 I wrote this post on symmetry some time ago in case you may want to read it:

 

@Davino That´s crazy man, how come i also thought of a diamond while writing this topic 😱

Edited June 1 by Javfly33

[koops]

18 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

At home. I learned shamavhi which is a kriya initation. 

I have to do 3 asanas before a Kriya process. Since i guess i have done that Kriya with asanas about 500 times, and the cat stretch is done 3 times, 500 x 3 = 1500

One of those asanas is cat strech. If not i would not have done it so many times LoL. 

But there are really crazy dudes out there. One guy in the 20s use to do surya kriya (sun salutation) 3 hours straight non stop every morning. Now go do numbers if you do that every day for 5 years. Lmao. 

 

-

 

Full, but i´ve heard that if you want to go deep/master one single asana thats fine. 

Theorically, you could actually just make one single asana your way to the ultimate/infininty. Just doing one asana for all of your life  quite hardcore.

Yep, I was thinking about it yesterday:

''If you want to get good at tennis, do you just play a match 3 times per week or do you practice 100 forehands, 100 backhands, and 100 serves every day?''

I feel that mastering 3-4 asanas/sequences, maybe even 1 can a good way to go, and on top of that going to some classes and putting them together with a great teacher.

Like tennis, practicing 1-2-3 moves 1000s of times, and then also playing matches.
 

I dabbled around with yoga. I know there is something there, but never gave it the time and focus, since I see tons of people that have been going to classes for 3-5-10 years and I see no progress in them aside from more fluidity in their moves.

Thats why Im skeptical to go to yoga classes, but I like your approach on focusing on 1-2 asanas.

 

-
 

So when you say the belief or feeling of individuality is dissolved, which asana are you doing? Do you get to that with a simple cat stretch?

Or is more about the repetition than the asana itself?