Why Enlightenment can not be recognized via pychedelics

[cetus]

5 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

Actually everyday i know less, im reaching a point of total confusion, is crazy.
 

In Zen a Koan is often used to "jailbreak" the mind.

[Razard86]

7 hours ago, James123 said:

I was chasing enlightenment for years and thinking that I can reach enlightenment via pychedelics (thats how my addiction to infinite love therefore pychedelics was created). However, it is not true. 

Consuming pychedelics, activates the mind. Therefore attachment with thinking still occurs, such as I am god / creator (because, you feel as god, which is attachment with thinking via feeling), same as infinite love, infinite nothingness, infinity etc... 

However, enlightenment has nothing to do with mind, out of any charts. Because, "I" (who consume pychedelics or etc...) can not be enlightened, when "I" drops enlightenment happens. Which is True Being ( As deep sleep, No experience, no thinking, nor attachments etc...) The one who Borns, consume pychedelics, realize what god is was just an illusion in the first place. Therefore, nothing has never happened and now is before so called birth. As Peter Raltson says "Enlightenment is simply being where you already are". or Papaji "Nothing has never happened, and realization of that is Nirvana". or Ramana Maharsi "You are closest to who you are when you are in deep sleep", or Rubert Spira "Eating an apple better than Recognition of Enlightenment, which is what You really are". And with Enlightenment, the mind permanently becomes quite, desires ends, therefore suffering ends. that's it. 

I am not against the pychedelics. I tripped many times and was addicted to pychedelics / mystical experiences. Because, they are the best ride in the park.

I hope this helps. 

Much Love!!!

This title is click bait. A more honest title would be "Why Enlightment is not limited to psychedelics."

Also just because you didn't reach enlightment on psychedelics doesn't mean others can't. For example, deep sleep does not allow you to recognize Infinity. 

Also dropping the I is not God Realization. God is BOTH the I and not the I. God is not limited to any identity. You are caught in the Not I identity. Any position that is taken, is always an identity absolutely. ANY POSITION PERIOD.

[James123]

9 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

deep sleep does not allow you to recognize Infinity. 

Also dropping the I is not God Realization. God is BOTH the I and not the I. God is not limited to any identity. You are caught in the Not I identity. Any position that is taken, is always an identity absolutely. ANY POSITION PERIOD.

These are the common mistakes that people are falling into. If you do not listen to me, listen to the teachers. Lol

[James123]

7 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

I agree, but i would add is important to have clarity in the whole aspect of reality. 

Not because that will change who you are, what you are is what you are and that can never ever be changed.

But because it might establish clarity. 

Because sure, i can see I am not this or that, i can see in this experience that is happening right now, if i really pay attention, there seems to be an intelligence, Being, or whatever, that seems to be identifying with things.

And if i pay really really attention, this Being is not anywhere, it seems it is holding the empty space where objects and phenomena is appearing.

Including the body, the laptop im writing this phrases, etc... and it seems i can not really pinpoing what, where or if this being is even alive.

Is just here, but no idea what is it. It seems it is in the world, but not of the world. I don´t understand nothing about this mysterios being. I try to remain conscious of it. 

Do not identify myself with anything, remain observant, free.

But there is no clarity yet what is it. What is it doing here, Most important, why there seems to be a world happening!!?? 

Of course this are questions of the mind, but im just saying, im having difficulty staying on my being, because i dont know what is my being. Actually everyday i know less, im reaching a point of total confusion, is crazy.
 

Sorry for the long post lol lol blessings my friend

Great post brother. Thank you for your input.

Much love!!!

Peace!!!

[Javfly33]

10 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

The whole thing about enlightenment being the end of desires is a story about monks who, seeing that life is a mess, prefer to be lazy and not complicate their lives.

Enlightenment could be said to be realizing what you are: reality. and not only realize but deeply perceive yourself as the flow of living reality all the time. but in the flow of living reality there are desires. You can perceive them as a flow of reality and partially detach yourself from them, or not at all. The issue is the perception of not stopping wanting to fuck. In fact, the normal thing is wanting it more 

The thing about desire would be stopping having desires of evasion, like addictions, but the natural desire, the purpose because that you exist, become more definite and strong, like a natural phenomena 

Really enlightenment could be defined like flowing without fear. And to get that psychedelic helps a lot. 

Well, how i see it is for Enlightment basically you have to be focused on your Real Self and stablish yourself in that.

From that place, things can appear or not. But IMO one can not take detours.

For example, yesterday i went out for a walk and i was completely focused on myself, when i walked by through a group of people, a group of guys that were making sounds and behaving a little bit antisocial, i noticed the usual conditioned fear on my body arise.

What i would have done in the past is fall on to that fear and i walk strangely when i would pass near them. Some kind of anxiety recorded in my psyche. 

However, I was completely into myself, into the boundless Being. I was including everything around me. So basically what it happened was the contrary. They stopped me to say me something, and i stopped and we ended up talking for 10 minutes and it turns out it was a great conversation and great guys.

Why i say this..., well... when you are stablished in a new way of being there are things that 'naturally' just happen for your benefit. Because you are in that open vibration. So people usually want to join you. 

Pros are things will naturally come to you, cons are you are not going to take any detours to abandon yourself. 

IMO Is not rejecting desire, is focusing on your self and stablishing yourself in that. Chances are if you do not live on a cave, things will come to you from time to time.

But that shouldnt be a focus. Everything that you think you need is something you pick up from culture. This being by itself is capable of being complete withouth anything from society or culture, that definetely includes sex.

Sex is something with 1 years old you didn´t care at all. Why you pick up that identification/bondage again? It will only detour you. But if a woman appears on the journey, the fun will be even better. 

 

8 hours ago, Someone here said:

 

Enlightenment/awakening/nirvana/ liberation etc is basically absolute solipsism.  You are God alone dreaming up this entire world .its becoming ever more obvious to me day after day ..and rest assured I'm not emitating Leo or anything like that ...YOU are imagining EVERYTHING right fucking now .

Not at all. Enlightment or not being able to find your self as a thing, is the same state as MDMA state of consciousness, your Self is boundless Being, you don´t see where it begins and where it ends. 

But also no hallucination, thought or insights, just completely clean mind. You can the next time pick up the laptop and get to work and get on a Zoom call with 10 team members of your company and the CEO and completely function as a 'self'.

Of course there are levels. Im not saying that is the ultimate realization.

Im just saying, the more profound you go on to this, the best it feels, the more magical, connected, profound Life feels. It does not feel wacky, weird, solipsistic, scary, or whatever else.

When it feels like that is because you are thinking a lot, basically. 

Edited May 30 by Javfly33

[Javfly33]

5 hours ago, cetus said:

In Zen a Koan is often used to "jailbreak" the mind.

@cetus Ok give me a Koan  lets see if this breaks for good 

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

Why i say this..., well... when you are stablished in a new way of being there are things that 'naturally' just happen for your benefit. Because you are in that open vibration. So people usually want to join you. 

Pros are things will naturally come to you, cons are you are not going to take any detours to abandon yourself. 

9 hours ago, James123 said:

 

well, agree in the if you are in a state of real openness, green of fear, barriers and contraction, you are complete in yourself and human desires take a backseat, since they are not seen as necessary. nothing is necessary because reality is perfect in itself. but on the other hand, reality always wants an evolution, a movement, and you will perceive if it pushes. Desires will not come from lack but they will be powerful. look at sadhguru for example, his desire to do what he does is unstoppable

[Water by the River]

13 hours ago, James123 said:

I was chasing enlightenment for years and thinking that I can reach enlightenment via pychedelics (thats how my addiction to infinite love therefore pychedelics was created). However, it is not true. 

Consuming pychedelics, activates the mind. Therefore attachment with thinking still occurs, such as I am god / creator (because, you feel as god, which is attachment with thinking via feeling), same as infinite love, infinite nothingness, infinity etc... 

However, enlightenment has nothing to do with mind, out of any charts. Because, "I" (who consume pychedelics or etc...) can not be enlightened, when "I" drops enlightenment happens. Which is True Being ( As deep sleep, No experience, no thinking, nor attachments etc...) The one who Borns, consume pychedelics, realize what god is was just an illusion in the first place. Therefore, nothing has never happened and now is before so called birth. As Peter Raltson says "Enlightenment is simply being where you already are". or Papaji "Nothing has never happened, and realization of that is Nirvana". or Ramana Maharsi "You are closest to who you are when you are in deep sleep", or Rubert Spira "Eating an apple better than Recognition of Enlightenment, which is what You really are". And with Enlightenment, the mind permanently becomes quite, desires ends, therefore suffering ends. that's it. 

I am not against the pychedelics. I tripped many times and was addicted to pychedelics / mystical experiences. Because, they are the best ride in the park.

I hope this helps. 

Much Love!!!

Excellent.

 

 

[James123]

14 hours ago, Someone here said:

s impossible to prove an objective external world outside of your imagination due to the nature of conscious experience only having the ability to exist as experience. Consciousness is all you have to prove a world. So you are always using consciousness as the actual substance of inquiry and you cannot step outside of consciousness to verify is something outside of consciousness. 

What about, if the mind is completely quite? 

[Javfly33]

11 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

. Desires will not come from lack but they will be powerful. look at sadhguru for example, his desire to do what he does is unstoppable

Yes, I think that is the key. 

Acting a desire but because you have a certain power-perception within you and it makes sense to do it.

Not desiring from a sense of lack, like a beggar, weak, ...etc I made that mistake in the past and I won´t do it again. Reality punishes you when you act like that. I have verified it too many times. 

 

22 hours ago, Someone here said:

It's impossible to prove an objective external world outside of your imagination due to the nature of conscious experience only having the ability to exist as experience. Consciousness is all you have to prove a world. So you are always using consciousness as the actual substance of inquiry and you cannot step outside of consciousness to verify is something outside of consciousness. 

Who said that there is stuff outside consciousness?