Why Enlightenment can not be recognized via pychedelics

[James123]

I was chasing enlightenment for years and thinking that I can reach enlightenment via pychedelics (thats how my addiction to infinite love therefore pychedelics was created). However, it is not true. 

Consuming pychedelics, activates the mind. Therefore attachment with thinking still occurs, such as I am god / creator (because, you feel as god, which is attachment with thinking via feeling), same as infinite love, infinite nothingness, infinity etc... 

However, enlightenment has nothing to do with mind, out of any charts. Because, "I" (who consume pychedelics or etc...) can not be enlightened, when "I" drops enlightenment happens. Which is True Being ( As deep sleep, No experience, no thinking, nor attachments etc...) The one who Borns, consume pychedelics, realize what god is was just an illusion in the first place. Therefore, nothing has never happened and now is before so called birth. As Peter Raltson says "Enlightenment is simply being where you already are". or Papaji "Nothing has never happened, and realization of that is Nirvana". or Ramana Maharsi "You are closest to who you are when you are in deep sleep", or Rubert Spira "Eating an apple better than Recognition of Enlightenment, which is what You really are". And with Enlightenment, the mind permanently becomes quite, desires ends, therefore suffering ends. that's it. 

I am not against the pychedelics. I tripped many times and was addicted to pychedelics / mystical experiences. Because, they are the best ride in the park.

I hope this helps. 

Much Love!!!

Edited May 29 by James123

[RendHeaven]

13 minutes ago, James123 said:

The one who Borns, consume pychedelics, realize what god is was just an illusion in the first place. Therefore, nothing has never happened and now is before so called birth. As Peter Raltson says "Enlightenment is simply being where you already are". or Papaji "Nothing has never happened, and realization of that is Nirvana".

Yeah, psychedelics will reveal that if you listen lol.

14 minutes ago, James123 said:

with Enlightenment, the mind permanently becomes quite, desires ends, therefore suffering ends. that's it. 

Rather banal🥱

14 minutes ago, James123 said:

I tripped many times and was addicted to pychedelics / mystical experiences.

Never had that issue.

[James123]

2 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

Rather banal🥱

I know, it is boring. Rubert Spira is right. Lol. 

[Javfly33]

I agree, but i would add is important to have clarity in the whole aspect of reality. 

Not because that will change who you are, what you are is what you are and that can never ever be changed.

But because it might establish clarity. 

Because sure, i can see I am not this or that, i can see in this experience that is happening right now, if i really pay attention, there seems to be an intelligence, Being, or whatever, that seems to be identifying with things.

And if i pay really really attention, this Being is not anywhere, it seems it is holding the empty space where objects and phenomena is appearing.

Including the body, the laptop im writing this phrases, etc... and it seems i can not really pinpoing what, where or if this being is even alive.

Is just here, but no idea what is it. It seems it is in the world, but not of the world. I don´t understand nothing about this mysterios being. I try to remain conscious of it. 

Do not identify myself with anything, remain observant, free.

But there is no clarity yet what is it. What is it doing here, Most important, why there seems to be a world happening!!?? 

Of course this are questions of the mind, but im just saying, im having difficulty staying on my being, because i dont know what is my being. Actually everyday i know less, im reaching a point of total confusion, is crazy.
 

Sorry for the long post lol lol blessings my friend

[Breakingthewall]

The whole thing about enlightenment being the end of desires is a story about monks who, seeing that life is a mess, prefer to be lazy and not complicate their lives.

Enlightenment could be said to be realizing what you are: reality. and not only realize but deeply perceive yourself as the flow of living reality all the time. but in the flow of living reality there are desires. You can perceive them as a flow of reality and partially detach yourself from them, or not at all. The issue is the perception of not stopping wanting to fuck. In fact, the normal thing is wanting it more 

The thing about desire would be stopping having desires of evasion, like addictions, but the natural desire, the purpose because that you exist, become more definite and strong, like a natural phenomena 

Really enlightenment could be defined like flowing without fear. And to get that psychedelic helps a lot. 

Edited May 29 by Breakingthewall

[Someone here]

2 hours ago, James123 said:

Nothing has never happened

This statement is true but I don't think you yourself understand the full meaning and the profound solipsistic and nihilistic ramifications of it .

It's impossible to prove an objective external world outside of your imagination due to the nature of conscious experience only having the ability to exist as experience. Consciousness is all you have to prove a world. So you are always using consciousness as the actual substance of inquiry and you cannot step outside of consciousness to verify is something outside of consciousness. 

When you give your back to the world your mind assumes there is a world behind you.. You do this because you need to create reality.. Because If you don't create it.. It doesn't exist. If you stop assuming anything on top of what is "actual".. You would see the only actual thing is nothing.     You think the phone that you are holding is actual.. It's not.. There is no phone.. Each moment there is a changing appearance but your mind comes in and create out of this groundless flow an illusion of "object". There are no objects. Each moment you are holding a new phone. 

Nothing actually exist outside of thinking 

Because exist is a thought .

 

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, James123 said:

Papaji "Nothing has never happened, and realization of that is Nirvana"

It's more like under the appearance of form the absolute reality is, immutable because it is unlimited, and you are that. In that sense, nothing ever happens.

but you can see it from another completely opposite angle: the cosmos never stops happening, and you are happening and you must do it in the deepest way possible because this is the nature of existence. They are opposite and both are true

[Someone here]

@Breakingthewall no without memory nothing exists .Everything in existence is uploaded or carried inside your consciousness.  So if we destroy the hard drive the data is destroyed as well . Analogously..if we destroy consciousness..the whole world disappears. 

Edited May 29 by Someone here

[Breakingthewall]

9 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Breakingthewall nom without memory nothing exists .Everything in existence is uploaded or carried inside your consciousness.  So if we destroy the hard drive the data is destroyed as well . Analogously..if we destroy consciousness..the whole world disappears. 

It's not like that, that is the lie, the dream, Maya or whatever you want to call it. Conciousness is not the thought or memory, the thoughts are inside the flow of consciousness. Conciousness is the reality that is being created now, the alive existence. Remove the meaning and you perceive what you are. Start to analyze, and you are lost again. The mind must be domesticated because we are totally addicted to meaning, to grab the reality with the mind 

In that sense James is right, nothing never happened  , but he isn't in other sense because everything is happening now. 

Edited May 29 by Breakingthewall

[Someone here]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

It's not like that, that is the lie, the dream, Maya or whatever you want to call it. Conciousness is not the thought, the thoughts are inside the flow of consciousness. Conciousness is the reality that is being created now, the alive existence. Remove the meaning and you perceive what you are. Start to analyze, and you are lost again. The mind must be domesticated. 

Not sure how is that related to my post but anyways..I'm not saying  consciousness is a thought ..I'm saying thoughts and everything else for that matter (like perceptions and bodily sensations )are held within consciousness.  The whole world that you perceive now is being carried inside your bubble of consciousness right now judt like how data is stored in the hardwareof a PC

..you absolutely never ever be able to deny this .tell me where is the world when you go unconscious either by sleeping or coma etc? 

[Breakingthewall]

16 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Not sure how is that related to my post but anyways..I'm not saying  consciousness is a thought ..I'm saying thoughts and everything else for that matter (like perceptions and bodily sensations )are held within consciousness.  The whole world that you perceive now is being carried inside your bubble of consciousness right now judt like how data is stored in the hardwareof a PC

..you absolutely never ever be able to deny this .tell me where is the world when you go unconscious either by sleeping or coma etc? 

I thought you meant another thing. Well, that about it's being stored is a way to see it, another way is that just exactly now is happening and everything that you see as stored is a construction that is happening now, like a dream, then means absolutely nothing and only the existence means anything, and means: existence exist, and nothing more. You can see the reality as a hologram superimposed over the total depth of existence, that is immutable, it's always the same, and that's what you are. The things that are happening, the form, are just impermanence, the quality is the existence, not the structure. The structure could change but the substance is impossible to change, because it's total depth, and can manifest in any way. 

But in another hand, as the appearance is happening, you have to immerse in it totally and equalize it as much as you can, or at least it's what I feel , like a game or a test

Edited May 29 by Breakingthewall

[Someone here]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I thought you meant another thing. Well, that about it's being stored is a way to see it, another way is that just exactly now is happening and everything that you see as stored is a construction that is happening now, like a dream, then means absolutely nothing and only the existence means anything, and means: existence exist, and nothing more. You can see the reality as a hologram superimposed over the total depth of existence, that is immutable, it's always the same, and that's what you are. The things that are happening, the form, are just impermanence, the quality is the existence, not the structure. The structure could change but the substance is impossible to change, because it's total depth, and can manifest in any way. 

I agree . But perhaps tone down the technical language a bit  so that everyone who read can be able to understand. 

I will talk about enlightenment since that's what relevant here to OP..

I will just say my opinion and to each his own to agree or disagree..

Enlightenment/awakening/nirvana/ liberation etc is basically absolute solipsism.  You are God alone dreaming up this entire world .its becoming ever more obvious to me day after day ..and rest assured I'm not emitating Leo or anything like that ...YOU are imagining EVERYTHING right fucking now .

Before you were born there was nothing in existence.  When you go to sleep there is nothing In existence.  Why is it hard for you to accept that when you die there will also be nothing in existence? You are attached to the idea of otherness and to objective reality being real ..to awaken you MUST surrender this attachment and accept Absolute Aloneness .

 

[bambi]

People have a lot of fear, trauma, shame,, guilt, anger etc to work through before enlightenment. Your not going from cocaine addiction for 5 years to next day enlightened.

Psychedelics seem to be able to seriously help integrate, heal and prepare for enlightenment , maybe they cant do the final step for you, that has to be done by you, the final surrender or letting go, but surely they can help along the way

[Breakingthewall]

11 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Enlightenment/awakening/nirvana/ liberation etc is basically absolute solipsism.  You are God alone dreaming up this entire world .its becoming ever more obvious to me day after day ..and rest assured I'm not emitating Leo or anything like that ...YOU are imagining EVERYTHING right fucking now .

Before you were born there was nothing in existence.  When you go to sleep there is nothing In existence.  Why is it hard for you to accept that when you die there will also be nothing in existence? You are attached to the idea of otherness and to objective reality being real ..to awaken you MUST surrender this attachment and accept Absolute Aloneness .

 

Look, All of that may be as you say, but the point is that the fact that something means something, like that you are alone, or that you are dreaming, or that when you sleep such a thing happens, they only mean something in the hologram that is happening, in the concrete structure of this dimension of reality. If you were (returning to the example ) a crocodile, none of that would mean absolutely anything, your dimension of being would be completely different. and you would still be you, the reality.

Do you understand that you, someone here, could be a crocodile and only know crocodile things and you would still be total reality? because the form is appearance, the substance is the real thing. Look for the depth where being you or a crocodile is exactly the same. That's what you are. Then you see that everything that you know means nothing, just the depth is, and the depth perceives itself always 

Edited May 29 by Breakingthewall

[Someone here]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

they only mean something in the hologram that is happening.

What "hologram" are ya talking about ? 

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

If you were (returning to the example ) a crocodile, none of that would mean absolutely anything, your dimension of being would be completely different. and you would still be you, the reality.

What you are missing is that this ⬆️ is something you are imagining right now ..isn't it or not? Answer me please...you are NOT a crocodile...you will never be a crocodile..this is just a thought experiment from you to try to illustrate or convey a meaning (which ironically you deny that absolute meaning exists ).

6 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Do you understand that you, someone here, could be a crocodile and only know crocodile things and you would still be total reality? because the form is appearance, the substance is the real thing. Look for the depth where being you or a crocodile is exactly the same. That's what you are.

No problem with this .I agree .

[Davino]

What is even enlightenment at this point?

It's such a constructed notion. 

What do you want? Truth, consciousness, presence, unity, love, no self, intelligence, infinity...

Things like that, but enlightenment? makes no sense to me anymore. You wouldn't know about enlightenment if humans hadn't told you, but you would be conscious anyway!

[Breakingthewall]

15 minutes ago, Someone here said:

What you are missing is that this ⬆️ is something you are imagining right now ..isn't it or not? Answer me please...you are NOT a crocodile...you will never be a crocodile..this is just a thought experiment from you to try to illustrate or convey a meaning (which ironically you deny that absolute meaning exists ).

Yeah it's just a thought with a meaning. I don't say that meaning doesn't exist, I said that you must remove the meaning of your mind at will to realize the real thing, what existence is. Then you start thinking again and think: in base of I perceived, it's obvious that being a crocodile, same that those I saw in pictures and I imagine that exists, is the same nature that the experience that is being perceived now but with another shape, because everything is flow of the alive depth, the existence, and I am that. Then you realize: same as a crocodile is the flow of existence, I am that, then this experience is exactly as is has to be, then you can release the resistance . But in my case is as a pendulum, resistance returns again and again , then I guess that is have to realize deeper, longer. 

Edited May 29 by Breakingthewall

[James123]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

no without memory nothing exists .Everything in existence is uploaded or carried inside your consciousness.  So if we destroy the hard drive the data is destroyed as well . Analogously..if we destroy consciousness.

This is perfect definition of ego, which is just a memory.

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

This statement is true but I don't think you yourself understand the full meaning and the profound solipsistic and nihilistic ramifications of it .

As I told, when you just Be, getting happens. 

[James123]

38 minutes ago, Davino said:

Things like that, but enlightenment? makes no sense to me anymore. You wouldn't know about enlightenment if humans hadn't told you, but you would be conscious anyway!

If humans never told my birth or taught the language, so called I would never born.

[James123]

2 hours ago, bambi said:

People have a lot of fear, trauma, shame,, guilt, anger etc to work through before enlightenment. Your not going from cocaine addiction for 5 years to next day enlightened.

Psychedelics seem to be able to seriously help integrate, heal and prepare for enlightenment , maybe they cant do the final step for you, that has to be done by you, the final surrender or letting go, but surely they can help along the way

Let's see.