End of suffering?

[Breakingthewall]

10 hours ago, Fernanda said:

A gentler way to say it, Yes.

Well it seems to be a process,  not something instantaneous, at least not for me. It is eliminating a burden of fear and attachment to distorted thought patterns, to gradually reveal the truth that is in us, what we are without the clothes of the ego, the purity of a child with the solid structure of an adult. Only then can the truth be revealed and we be one with it. Without enough strength, the softness of the structure will collapse again and again, and life will be pendulous between truth and suffering. Then, the structures have to change and are changing, and as you said, surely it has a genétical reflection. 

Edited June 2 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

On 27/5/2024 at 4:25 PM, James123 said:

Only way to stop suffering is not pursuing any pleasure, which is enlightenment. Mind becomes quite, mind is no more chatting. That's all. 

Great topic by the way. Thanks for sharing talk about stop neurotic 

You talk about stop neurotic desires I guess. you can't stop wishing. You desire because you do not perceive yourself as complete, and desire is your need to complete yourself. the absence of neurotic desire comes with the truth, not the truth with the cessation of desire

[James123]

18 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

You talk about stop neurotic desires I guess. you can't stop wishing. You desire because you do not perceive yourself as complete, and desire is your need to complete yourself. the absence of neurotic desire comes with the truth, not the truth with the cessation of desire

When you do not think, you do not desire anything and it is possible, which is quite mind, which is end of suffering. 

 

 

Edited June 1 by James123

[Breakingthewall]

8 minutes ago, James123 said:

When you do not think, you do not desire anything and it is possible, which is quite mind, which is end of suffering. 

 

 

You can't do that, it could be a consequence of a real opening of the truth in you, not something that you do or don't do. Compulsive thought are consequence of incompleteness, if happen, happen, as all of us know. Compulsive thought can cease when the structure of the person changes to a point when the true substance flows without obstacle 

Edited June 1 by Breakingthewall

[James123]

Just now, Breakingthewall said:

You can't do that, it could be a consequence of a real opening of the truth in you, not something that you do or don't do. Compulsive thought are consequence of incompleteness, if happen, happen, as all of un know. Compulsive thought can cease when the structure of the person changes to a point when the true substance flows without obstacle 

Why someone can't do that? I do not think whatsoever, except pychedelics. Therefore, I just suffer to use or not use pychedelics, that's it. If I let go of that, I do not think at all too. So, it is possible. Believe me. Whatever you think, that's your suffering. 

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, James123 said:

Why someone can't do that? I do not think whatsoever, except pychedelics. Therefore, I just suffer to use or not use pychedelics, that's it. If I let go of that, I do not think at all too. So, it is possible. Believe me. Whatever you think, that's your suffering. 

Well, ok, you are unique in the world, one between 20 millions. Usually the people think compulsively all time and feels moments of satisfaction and moments of dissatisfaction, and they move to seek more satisfaction, although many times negative thoughts and feelings such as loneliness, fear, sadness, neurotic ideas, arise and generate what is called suffering.

[James123]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

Well, ok, you are unique in the world, one between 20 millions. Usually the people think compulsively all time and feels moments of satisfaction and moments of dissatisfaction, and they move to seek more satisfaction, although many times negative thoughts and feelings such as loneliness, fear, sadness, neurotic ideas, arise and generate what is called suffering.

I agree. Whatever we think that's cause suffering. Imo, fundamentally comprehending and experiencing that feeling, emotion, sadness or happiness is just a thought process and which is literally illusion, it is possible to not to suffer. I used to suffer about thinking of enlightenment, but when I did let go of it, I do not think about enlightenment whatsoever now. 

[Yimpa]

How about we learn to enjoy and embrace suffering? 

[Breakingthewall]

12 minutes ago, James123 said:

I agree. Whatever we think that's cause suffering. Imo, fundamentally comprehending and experiencing that feeling, emotion, sadness or happiness is just a thought process and which is literally illusion, it is possible to not to suffer. I used to suffer about thinking of enlightenment, but when I did let go of it, I do not think about enlightenment whatsoever now. 

I would say that things are not like that at all. Negative thoughts and emotions are manifestations of real energy structures. They are not left behind deciding it, that is self-help and it does not work. A deep work is needed, and the end of that work is what we call enlightenment, be open to the pure truth without obstacles . If it's your case , great, but it's not something easy. Maybe seems simple when you are totally open to the reality and the psyche moves apart, but in my case, it comes back

[James123]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

I would say that things are not like that at all. Negative thoughts and emotions are manifestations of real energy structures. They are not left behind deciding it, that is self-help and it does not work. A deep work is needed, and the end of that work is what we call enlightenment, be open to the pure truth without obstacles . If it's your case , great, but it's not something easy. Maybe seems simple when you are totally open to the reality and the psyche moves apart, but in my case, it comes back

But I suffered a lot. I have lost my everything, my health, family, life, purpose of life, my patients, everything. 

[Someone here]

In my humble opinion there is no end to suffering. 

Life will always fuck with you .always .

Grow some balls and deal with it.

[Fernanda]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Well it seems to be a process,  not something instantaneous, at least not for me. It is eliminating a burden of fear and attachment to distorted thought patterns, to gradually reveal the truth that is in us, what we are without the clothes of the ego, the purity of a child with the solid structure of an adult. Only then can the truth be revealed and we be one with it. Without enough strength, the softness of the structure will collapse again and again, and life will be pendulous between truth and suffering. The, the structures have to change and are changing, and as you said, surely it has a genétical reflection. 

It's a process, but there are some life changing instants, like sounds and silences, that compose this beautiful simphony we call life. Some of them I feel can alter the structure of the body.

[hyruga]

There are two types of pain: physical pain and mental pain.

For physical, we can only do something to reduce or prolong our existence. But we will all die eventually.

For mental, the pain is created in the mind. We can choose to focus on some other things. Mental suffering is not compulsory.

[Breakingthewall]

5 hours ago, hyruga said:

For mental, the pain is created in the mind. We can choose to focus on some other things. Mental suffering is not compulsory

Maybe it isn't but act like it were. Imagine that your wife falsely denounces you for raping your 2-year-old son to steal your money and tomorrow you are going to be sentenced to life in prison for it and all your family and friends will not talk to you because you are a monster. would you suffer? Why? Does something hurt you? An animal would not suffer, in its dimension those kind of things do not exist. 

Imagine that at that moment a self-help guru comes to you and tells you: you are creating your own suffering, life is now, and it is wonderful, all of that is fantasies. Would it be of any use to you?

Denying the existence of a real entity that is the individual and collective ego does not work. It exists, it is real, it lives, it has enormous force. Going back, to the animal state without ego, does not work. It's like trying to eliminate the sexual drive from you, you can't, it exists.

There is only one path that is forward, what we call (without knowing very well what it is) enlightenment. For me the definition would be the human metamorphosis in which the psyche disintegrates, loosing it's strength and remaining just an a structure, like the old, allowing the opening through which the truth of the being is totally manifested, like the new. This requires a process of forging a new structure, which they say entails many lives and much suffering.

[Breakingthewall]

9 hours ago, Yimpa said:

How about we learn to enjoy and embrace suffering? 

6 hours ago, hyruga said:

 

The problem is that suffering has a design that doesn't allow "enjoying" it. Maybe you can enjoy climbing an ice wall in the Himalayas in winter, but you can't enjoy compulsively thinking about how your best friend raped your 12-year-old daughter and caused her suicide. They are extreme examples but human life has them in abundance. When we talk about mental suffering, which causes hatred, war, human horror, we talk about that kind of thing. A primitive human saw it clearly: an affront had to be balanced with revenge to restore balance. From this dynamic arises civilization, law, and human order that gives rise to evolution using violence as a catalyst. No one has ever cared that humans were happy, but rather that they fulfilled their role in the function. 

8 hours ago, Someone here said:

In my humble opinion there is no end to suffering. 

Life will always fuck with you .always .

Grow some balls and deal with it.

That's an option, quite uncomfortable, but what to do?. The other is that mysterious and rare state called enlightenment , where the human condition is transcended. But talk about enlightenment as it were something simple is a joke. 

If we even want to understand what it implies, we must understand the human condition and not simplify it in a naive way as if it were something silly that we fall into by mistake.

[Someone here]

9 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

That's an option, quite uncomfortable, but what to do?. The other is that mysterious and rare state called enlightenment , where the human condition is transcended. But talk about enlightenment as it were something simple is a joke. 

If we even want to understand what it implies, we must understand the human condition and not simplify it in a naive way as if it were something silly that we fall into by mistake.

What to do ? Surrender totally.  Accept reality unconditionally .

I know easier said than dons but you have no other choice .

Even enlightenment is simply Surrender.