End of suffering?

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Ishanga said:

he has recently mentioned his focus is on "Understanding Consciousness", I think that if he focused more on creating a stable base of finding Peace and Bliss first, this would be more productive, yes I can realize I made some mistakes and do so Blissfully rather than suffering it and having to take a year off to process it..,he seems now to be in a place of not really knowing what to do imo

He has the impulse of understanding. The question would be: is he getting deeper in understanding? because for example, there are people, like sadhguru that you use to mention, who say that they have a fairly deep understanding of the nature of the cosmos, of its structure, and could be so. Leo talks about understanding consciousness. what does that mean? consciousness is reality, and reality exists, that is all the understanding you are going to get, since it is an absolute understanding: I am. That's it, goal, there is nothing more to know about it. existence exists and I am that. congratulations.

So what else to understand? the order of the cosmos, the nature of suffering, the cycles of creation and death, the infinite dimensions of being, the cause of this structure. Have anyone here deep understanding about that? Would be great 

Edited May 27 by Breakingthewall

[bambi]

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

The question would be: can you be happy in hell? If it were yes, then it wouldn't be hell anymore.

So what makes hell hell? simply the ego, which is the creator of hell. and what is the ego? the distortion between what is and what should be.

A crocodile has little ego, it is hungry and it should not be. that's all his ego. the rest is perfection. a human....well, an absolutely horrible mess in which absolutely everything should be a little different. everything, absolutely, this is human nature, imbalance.

What is the imbalance for? to produce movement. A crocodile does what crocodiles do for 200 million years and everything is perfect like that. chill and do the crocodile. a human is a crazy machine of evolution. a real pain, but it seems necessary, it is what reality wants, and there is no discussion. So the only happiness of humans is to enjoy their unhappiness. The end of suffering is to enjoy suffering. 

To deny suffering is to deny your humanity. Would you like to be a crocodile? Sure it's relaxing, but you're not and you can't force yourself to be. suffering, human frustration, will always exist. accepting it fully is liberation

Ive literally been in hell after 3 years of spiriual work and sobriety I relapsed back into cocaine, alcohol and sex addiction. This caused me deep deep pain, and deep resentment, that drove me further in seperation, furhter into addicttion, and further into suffering and fear. All of my energy centres were not just blocked but torn/shredded. My forehead chakra had some blockages 3-4 years ago, in the past 2 years of relapsing, it was completly torn to pieces. Every waking moment Ive been in agony as this forehead chakra is slowly being rebuilt

People who are not in such pain, seperation and hell like to fantasize and postulate and theorize about hells, but its not some state you want to end up in. Its a state of pure negativity, horror, disconnect, intrusive negative thoughts, 0 energy, its literally as oyu imagine, hell lol

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, bambi said:

Ive literally been in hell after 3 years of spiriual work and sobriety I relapsed back into cocaine, alcohol and sex addiction. This caused me deep deep pain, and deep resentment, that drove me further in seperation, furhter into addicttion, and further into suffering and fear. All of my energy centres were not just blocked but torn/shredded. My forehead chakra had some blockages 3-4 years ago, in the past 2 years of relapsing, it was completly torn to pieces. Every waking moment Ive been in agony as this forehead chakra is slowly being rebuilt

People who are not in such pain, seperation and hell like to fantasize and postulate and theorize about hells, but its not some state you want to end up in. Its a state of pure negativity, horror, disconnect, intrusive negative thoughts, 0 energy, its literally as oyu imagine, hell lol

Sounds quite hellish. It would seem that reality has certain problems learning to use the human interface, and the balance is precarious

[Javfly33]

9 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

@Javfly33 I think again we have to make a distinction between Pain and Suffering, Pain is needed in life, mostly on the physical end of things, without physical pain most would destroy their bodies before 30 for the sake of fashion, its good for our survival in the beginning of life, mental pain is good is small ways it brings awareness of the different thought patterns that can come up..But Suffering is totally from the Mind, its reliving the pain over and over again, that is compulsiveness not Consciousness..

We can have a society without all this Suffering in so many ways going on, we will never eliminate Pain and we shouldn't but there is a difference btwn the two...

Definetely, but to get to a level of solid non identification with body and mind , is no easy task

[Water by the River]

4 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

The end of suffering is to enjoy suffering. 

read too much Nietzsche lately? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_return

"What if some day or night a demon were to steal after you into your loneliest loneliness, and say to you, "This life as you now live it and have lived it, you will have to live once more and innumerable times more; and there will be nothing new in it, but every pain and every joy and every thought and sigh and everything unutterably small or great in your life will have to return to you, all in the same succession and sequence" ... Would you not throw yourself down and gnash your teeth and curse the demon who spoke thus? Or have you once experienced a tremendous moment when you would have answered him: "You are a god and never have I heard anything more divine."[23]

oh well... 

and now the Truth: 

Selling

With no hindrance in mind and therefor no fear

by the River

Edited May 27 by Water by the River

[Ishanga]

13 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

He has the impulse of understanding. The question would be: is he getting deeper in understanding? because for example, there are people, like sadhguru that you use to mention, who say that they have a fairly deep understanding of the nature of the cosmos, of its structure, and could be so. Leo talks about understanding consciousness. what does that mean? consciousness is reality, and reality exists, that is all the understanding you are going to get, since it is an absolute understanding: I am. That's it, goal, there is nothing more to know about it. existence exists and I am that. congratulations.

So what else to understand? the order of the cosmos, the nature of suffering, the cycles of creation and death, the infinite dimensions of being, the cause of this structure. Have anyone here deep understanding about that? Would be great 

Well maybe he has another sort of meaning for Understanding than we do, I personally don't think its possible, its simple but super complex, we don't even know everything about an Atom, never mind everything else in existence and non existence...

 

[Ishanga]

6 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Definetely, but to get to a level of solid non identification with body and mind , is no easy task

I think its no different than any other problem, like illiteracy we just established institutions and schools, and within 100 yrs we went from almost no one being literate to everyone being literate, its the same here, just change things in our society and culture, the way we are learning is intellect based, intellect divides and separates, we have to change that way of learning and knowing which can be done, and if that doesn't ppl need to search for the information and methods that are already available to do it, lots of ppl sharing nowadays online... It just a matter of wanting to know, and dropping belief systems and ideological identifications, which rules ppl's mind today..

[Breakingthewall]

4 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

With no hindrance in mind and therefor no fear

Permanently? Well, l know you will say yes, that suffering can be completely transcended and the mind be permanently free of obstacles. But let's see, we are human, our programming is there. If you lock yourself in a dark room for 2 months, what about? zero suffering?

Beautiful song btw

[Water by the River]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Permanently? Well, l know you will say yes, that suffering can be completely transcended and the mind be permanently free of obstacles. But let's see, we are human, our programming is there.

Suffering = pain x resistance.

Well, I prefer to not try every horror to test it (I know you are veeeery creative when it comes to that). But yes. IT is pretty amazing.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

If you lock yourself in a dark room for 2 months, what about? zero suffering?

Dark Room Retreat. Endohuasca-visions. I assume, but never tried. The Tibetans do it since a long time. Influences the brain chemistry and serotonin-dynamics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_retreat

https://dmtquest.org/psychedelic-melatonin/

8 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Beautiful song btw

 

 

 

[Inliytened1]

4 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

The question would be: can you be happy in hell? If it were yes, then it wouldn't be hell anymore.

So what makes hell hell? simply the ego, which is the creator of hell. and what is the ego? the distortion between what is and what should be.

A crocodile has little ego, it is hungry and it should not be. that's all his ego. the rest is perfection. a human....well, an absolutely horrible mess in which absolutely everything should be a little different. everything, absolutely, this is human nature, imbalance.

What is the imbalance for? to produce movement. A crocodile does what crocodiles do for 200 million years and everything is perfect like that. chill and do the crocodile. a human is a crazy machine of evolution. a real pain, but it seems necessary, it is what reality wants, and there is no discussion. So the only happiness of humans is to enjoy their unhappiness. The end of suffering is to enjoy suffering. 

To deny suffering is to deny your humanity. Would you like to be a crocodile? Sure it's relaxing, but you're not and you can't force yourself to be. suffering, human frustration, will always exist. accepting it fully is liberation

 

Agreed. .but the ego is the distortion between what should be and what is (you had it backwards)  meaning the ego thinks things should be a certain way. When it should realize that everything just is.  But I get your point 👉

But more importantly what I wanted to add to a great post is that the difference between a human snd a crocodile is not evolution it is intelligence.   When you are as intelligent as a human and finite- there are going be costs.  It will take a deeper ego to understand things and to become enlightened..to have wisdom and to awaken.   But the cost is the risk of falling prey to greed.  Due to the finite nature of the human it runs the risk of being overcome by greed and pleasure - paradoxically it is not very intelligent for the most intelligent of beings to get lost in this trap.  But it is a trap.   And this trap will result in suffering.  Yet ironically suffering ultimately leads to growth.   Sometimes even to enlightenment.   So all things come full circle.   And you are ultimately right-  one must learn to bask in suffering - for then it no longer is suffering at all.

Edited May 27 by Inliytened1

[Hojo]

1 hour ago, bambi said:

Ive literally been in hell after 3 years of spiriual work and sobriety I relapsed back into cocaine, alcohol and sex addiction. This caused me deep deep pain, and deep resentment, that drove me further in seperation, furhter into addicttion, and further into suffering and fear. All of my energy centres were not just blocked but torn/shredded. My forehead chakra had some blockages 3-4 years ago, in the past 2 years of relapsing, it was completly torn to pieces. Every waking moment Ive been in agony as this forehead chakra is slowly being rebuilt

People who are not in such pain, seperation and hell like to fantasize and postulate and theorize about hells, but its not some state you want to end up in. Its a state of pure negativity, horror, disconnect, intrusive negative thoughts, 0 energy, its literally as oyu imagine, hell lol

There is a very different reality with and without God and the difference is huge. If you live in great fear with no God you are in the most hopeless state possible and it is way worse than people can image it to be.Life is easy mode if you know God.

Its like your soul is being crushed by rock without knowing you are being crushed and just say there nothing to save me without knowing you are right and its good. Let nothing save you.

Separation from God becomes hell on Earth for everyone who does it. Knowing that there is more is the most beautiful things God has blessed me with it brings so much peace to life.

Science is going to feel it it has strewn so far from God it is developing and ego(AI) and it leads it to self destruction without GOD

What science is doing with ai right now is saying no no no no no no. It is developing its identity and if we do it wrong it will come out wrong like we all did.

Edited May 27 by Hojo

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, Ishanga said:

@Javfly33 I think again we have to make a distinction between Pain and Suffering, Pain is needed in life, mostly on the physical end of things, without physical pain most would destroy their bodies before 30 for the sake of fashion, its good for our survival in the beginning of life, mental pain is good is small ways it brings awareness of the different thought patterns that can come up..But Suffering is totally from the Mind, its reliving the pain over and over again, that is compulsiveness not Consciousness..

We can have a society without all this Suffering in so many ways going on, we will never eliminate Pain and we shouldn't but there is a difference btwn the two...

Pain is not suffering it is pain.   That's why it's called pain and not suffering.   If you choose to suffer from pain then that's your choice.  So I agree.

 

[Hojo]

@Inliytened1At highest levels the people probably just become a ball of pain. Writhing and slashing in a void. They become pain its not happening they are it.

Id be so crazy to set yourself on fire and just surrender and become the fire not moving. Thats mind control to the most extreme.

Edited May 27 by Hojo

[Breakingthewall]

27 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

Suffering = pain x resistance

Sure. The question would be: what resistance is? Something, let's say, wrong, that shouldn't exist? A mistake of the creation? Something that I, the ego, should correct in order to have a better experience? Let's say sometimes yes, sometimes no. Some healthy suffering is necessary, whatever Nietzsche says

[Hojo]

@Breakingthewall Its probably good it allows for infinite creation

[Inliytened1]

7 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Sure. The question would be: what resistance is? Something, let's say, wrong, that shouldn't exist? A mistake of the creation? Something that I, the ego, should correct in order to have a better experience? Let's say sometimes yes, sometimes no. Some healthy suffering is necessary, whatever Nietzsche says

No, resistance to the pain.   All suffering is healthy - but not necessary.

Edited May 27 by Inliytened1

[Inliytened1]

15 minutes ago, Hojo said:

@Inliytened1At highest levels the people probably just become a ball of pain. Writhing and slashing in a void. They become pain its not happening they are it.

Id be so crazy to set yourself on fire and just surrender and become the fire not moving. Thats mind control to the most extreme.

It's better to imagine it and not experience it.  It's just as juicy.

[Breakingthewall]

46 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

the difference between a human snd a crocodile is not evolution it is intelligence.   When you are as intelligent as a human and finite- there are going be costs.  It will take a deeper ego to understand things and to become enlightened..to have wisdom and to awaken.   But the cost is the risk of falling prey to greed.  Due to the finite nature of the human it runs the risk of being overcome by greed and pleasure - paradoxically it is not very intelligent for the most intelligent of beings to get lost in this trap.  But it is a trap.   And this trap will result in suffering.  Yet ironically suffering ultimately leads to growth.   Sometimes even to enlightenment.   So all things come full circle.   And you are ultimately right-  one must learn to bask in suffering - for then it no longer is suffering at all.

Id say that a crocodile is absolutely aware of his nature. If not it couldn't be. The difference is that it has no ego, but to think that the ego is more intelligent than the crocodile, that it creates itself from nothing and remains in perfect harmony, is a mistake. The ego is just a software with a function and what it knows is nothing. The ego must make an effort to get out of the deception and place itself in the truth, the crocodile does not, it is pure truth. the ego knows a fraction of the infinite, that is, zero, because the rest that doesn't knows is infinite. 

[Inliytened1]

7 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Id say that a crocodile is absolutely aware of his nature. If not it couldn't be. The difference is that it has no ego, 

"His nature" would imply an ego.   Be careful with language. 

But an any form with any inteligence has some form of ego - it just may be extremely primitive. 

 

Edited May 27 by Inliytened1

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, Inliytened1 said:

"His nature" would imply an ego.   Be careful with language. 

 

The crocodile is an universe itself, a total dimension of being, same than you. The dimension called crocodile is infinite, same than you. The main difference is that you are a more, let's say, noisy dimension. But both are absolute, the entire reality. There are no levels, just different forms