Peter Ralston interview by Leo Gura.

[Water by the River]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Water by the River You are like a broken record. You are like a scientist who goes around say, "A woman?! That's just atoms! An alien?! That's just atoms. All I care to know is atoms! The suchness of that underlies everything."

But you actually have no understanding or appreciation of a woman or an alien. And yet, ironically, you are stuck in that human body and mind, spinning on repeat.

Oh well. Where there is not stable realization of Infinite Being and nondual Awakened States sobre in everyday life, there is only suffering-in-cycles wave-surfing. Wave-surfing up and down Maslows pyramid. And one can also appreciate the lovely lady & lovely alien when resting in True Being or after having fallen into the Infinite Ocean.

Just too much preference for wave-surfing understanding consciousness of woman/alien n+1 prevents dropping into the Ocean of Infinite truly Impersonal Being. Which btw. is an Awakening which one can't anticipate or imagine in any way before it really happens. If one could, it would have already happened...

So lets hope it doesn't need a major or minor crocodile (like the one has that has bitten you out of the pretty much non-stop-psychedelic gig of last year) to wise you up on wether the summon bonum is dropping into the ocean or surfing ever higher waves.

Spiritual Intuition can make one skip some of the crocodiles, one doesn't need to get also bitten by the crocodile sitting at the fork of the road with the sign "Summum Bonum: Wave surfing or falling into the Infinite Ocean?" 

 

Selling the eternal boring broken record of dropping in to the Infinite Ocean of Being instead of wave surfing

by

the River

 

PS: Selling & broken record: Yeah, you are right: I guess I start to sound like this guy: 

So surf the largest wave ever dear Leo, and then after have done that I wish you that you have the Karma to finally drop into the Infinite Oean that You Truly are:

 

 

[Yimpa]

You’re petering out by believing that Consciousness is only capable of understanding what enlightenment is  

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Water by the River said:

And one can also appreciate the lovely lady & lovely alien when resting in True Being

I don't see you appreciating any aliens but rather mocking and dismissing those who do.

[Francis777]

@Leo Gura do you consider Ralston a narcissist? Or maybe not a full on narcissist but some tendencies? I mean in the selfish manner by the way not the medical illness term of simply just believing everything about yourself as true, good or bad.

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Francis777 said:

do you consider Ralston a narcissist?

Not at all.

[Davino]

5 hours ago, zurew said:

Why?

I was joking as I certainly love philosophy but it's also a deep critic to what philosophy has become.

Because most philosophers are clueless about Truth as a direct experience, but pursuit it as an intellectual activity and that generates a great fantasy for them that is divorced from Reality. Hence the twisted trap, to such philosophers you need a zen master with a stick to wake them up. For me it's a crime to use your intelligence in a way where you further jail yourself, the ego weponizes their intelligence. For example Kant, had a brilliant mind, you can recognize it immediately, yet so lost inside the labyrinth of it.

 

[CARDOZZO]

4 hours ago, bambi said:

@CARDOZZO appreciate the reply but you literally didnt answer my question at all

I can't do it for yourself. You should read his work and do the job. 

[UnbornTao]

18 minutes ago, Davino said:

For example Kant, had a brilliant mind, you can recognize it immediately, yet so lost inside the labyrinth of it.

Kant would precisely be an exception, from my viewpoint. He wasn't messing around. He might even have had enlightenment experiences. That level of genius requires some leap in consciousness.

That may apply to Ken Wilber, etc.

 

Edited May 30 by UnbornTao

[Osaid]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Do you really think humans are the most conscious creatures

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That is what enlightened human consciousness is, rat-like consciousness.

Since when do rats and humans have consciousness?

Isn't your metric for "measuring" consciousness just an anthropomorphization? The idea of consciousness having levels is based on the idea that you are human.

The desire to reach non-human consciousness is actually a very human sentiment. Only a human could have that sentiment. 

[Leo Gura]

22 minutes ago, Osaid said:

Since when do rats and humans have consciousness?

Isn't your metric for "measuring" consciousness just an anthropomorphization? The idea of consciousness having levels is based on the idea that you are human.

"Have" is just a figure of speech. You are consciousness.  And consciousness has degrees.

Quote

The desire to reach non-human consciousness is actually a very human sentiment. Only a human could have that sentiment. 

If I was a kangaroo, yeah, I would not have a desire for higher consciousness.

What's sad is that most humans don't utilize that desire even though they are one of the few animals on this planet capable of such desire.

Isn't it obvious to you that the only reason humans were able to build a civilzation, while none of the other animals did, was because we have higher consciousness than them?

Humans are more intelligent because we are more conscious. A donkey does not have enough consciousness to build a rocket ship.

I can't believe I have to explain this to so-called enlightened people.

You actually believe that aliens are not any more conscious than humans. You're not being serious.

Edited May 30 by Leo Gura

[Davino]

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

Kant would precisely be an exception, from my viewpoint. He wasn't messing around. He might even have had enlightenment experiences. That level of genius requires some leap in consciousness.

Depends on the standpoint you are, what seems genius from one point is seen as crude from another.

Be careful with Kant, he will deceive you with his intelligence, as he himself was deceived by it. That's why I chose him as an example for my previous explanation.

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

That may apply to Ken Wilber, etc.

Wilber is a different beast

[UnbornTao]

Wilber strikes me as lost in the clouds (too stuck in intellect). I don't sense much real clarity by him on enlightenment.

Edited May 31 by UnbornTao

[Davino]

2 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Wilber strikes me as lost in the clouds.

Yes, again the standpoint is everything

[Water by the River]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't see you appreciating any aliens but rather mocking and dismissing those who do.

 

12 hours ago, Water by the River said:

PS: Selling & broken record: Yeah, you are right: I guess I start to sound like this guy: 

Well, although I admit I appreciate your new communication style (without any rodents & icepicks ), I must admit that I consider that I didn't take myself too seriously in comparing me to the muppet-show-guy, telling always the same sell sell sell water by the River.

12 hours ago, Water by the River said:

And one can also appreciate the lovely lady & lovely alien when resting in True Being or after having fallen into the Infinite Ocean.

Is that not enough appreciation? Oh, I deeply appreciate the magnificence of manifestation &Kosmos& ETs and Infinity.

I mean, I don't send the poor souls here wave surfing in psychedelic (Alien-)-100ft+ Nazaré waves instead of letting go of all this illusory (and just appearing) wave-surfing (or have they become real in the meantime?). Instead of sending them on the path of realizing their True Identity with the Infinite Ocean by dropping into it and dissolving the imagined boundaries of being a separate wave.

You clearly value the wave-surfing higher and belittle the Enlightenment path of truly transcending the separate-self and truly becoming the Infinite Ocean.

Lets agree to disagree in the meantime?

Your favourite Muppet-Show-Salesman by the River

PS: Who truly deeply respects you and your potential for reflection and continued evolution, like you did with your last video. Few people could have done this. I assume you have a certain "karmic" budget on leading people temporarily towards wave-surfing instead of the infinite ocean, because your path can't be otherwise. But at some point if that continues with more devotees drowning in the 100ft-Nazaree-waves, I assume Spirit will put an end to this. You had your warning shots over the last 1,5 years, so be wise and on a good path. Godspeed.

 

 

[Javfly33]

15 hours ago, BlessedLion said:

Javfly, no matter how much you meditate or do yoga there are still legit limitations on you, you can’t turn your hand into a claw, no matter how many psychedelics or yoga you do. 

legit limitations on you

The point is I´m literally Consciousness creating a human hand. 

If Consciousness wanted absolutely could turn it into a claw. Is just doesn´t want. And the ego self (thoughts) have no power or control on what Consciousness creates.

So things go exactly as Real Me wants. 

There is NO SUCH THING as Consciousness + Human Self. 

There is Consciousness + ( Human body + thoughts. ) This Two DO NOT form a self. 

What you guys miss is that even while having a body the consciousness is not limited at all at any moment. 

Get this straight: When I take a piss, in that moment Consciousness is also absolutely unlimited. 

Edited May 31 by Javfly33

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Water by the River said:

You clearly value the wave-surfing higher and belittle the Enlightenment path of truly transcending the separate-self and truly becoming the Infinite Ocean.

I am working on both fronts, up and down. And if I discover in the end that down was better to up, I will let you know.

Edited May 31 by Leo Gura

[Inliytened1]

On 5/29/2024 at 7:50 PM, Leo Gura said:

Osho was a genius in his own way.

Wilber is a genius in the domain of philosophical writing and conceptual understanding.

The rest of them are merely enlightened, not particularly geniuses.

Ralston's genius is very unique. Basically he exists in his own unique state of consciousness. He's not a normal human being. Understanding him is hard because he's just so different from normal humans by default. It's not something you can enlighten you way to. No amount of enlightenment will get you to his level, because it is based on genetic talent. It's like trying to visualize like Tesla, a normal human cannot do it, you have to be a genetic freak.

This is the secret that none of these people will ever tell you. They take their own genetics for granted, which I am sick of watching.

Well others may have genetics for enlightenment but you have a genius intelligence when it comes to articulating these ideas and also uncovering the mystery behind them.  That sets you far ahead of Ralston in my opinion - whether you have the genetic gifts for enlightenment or not - you still found it in your own way.

Edited May 31 by Inliytened1

[Water by the River]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I am working on both fronts, up and down. And if I discover in the end that down was better to up, I will let you know.

Excellent.

Although the spectrum you mention with up and down exists, calling it up and down already probably has for many a subtle value-judgement inherent to it, since often "up" is prefered to "down".

In my perspective, it is either

• deeper into manifestation/temporariness/appearance (and finally the illusion and its mechanisms), what you call "up", and which I consider finally deeper into illusion/appearance
• "deeper" into everpresent eternal unchanging always here True Infinite Being, creating a karmic-momentum on the soul level to tending to stay realized and aware of True Infinite Being. Or what you call "down"

 

12 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

There is Consciousness + ( Human body + thoughts. ) This Two DO NOT form a self. 

Yes. I would even phrase it as Infinite Being CONTAINING Consciousness OF + ( Human body + thoughts).

When Infinite Being expresses itself in one perspective/being as Deep Sleep, there is not even Consciousness (since consciousness as the term we normally use is always consciousness OF). Just the potential of Awareness is "there"/"not there". Since it is NOTHING-ness if nothing arises. Yet it is real. More real than "anything" else.

But since here all duality collapses, one could call this Infinite Being either Awareness (or not call it Awareness, but just Absolute/Infinite/Nothingness/True Being). Awareness is an inherent potential of Infinite Being, but it is just "not there" (as consciousness, or more precise consciousness OF) if nothing arises. At the same time, it can be validly said Awareness "is always there", independend of something arising or not. It is just not the normal consciousness (OF sth.) we think of when nothing arises.

When anything arises (and be it a very subtle consciousness OF any arising), we have consciousness OF. And that is already one level "lower" from True Infinite Being.

Fully grasping this is the last step to Enlightenment. Mind/separate-self can't go "there", to Awareness/Nothingness "of" nothing. "And again God said, Thou mayest not see my face, for a man shall not see me, and live."

Any movement of focus or attention, any mind-movement, is already not IT. Too much movement in "the" pristinely empty Infinite. "It" can't turn around over its shoulder to see itself, that is already too much movement, subtle manifestations and movement of attention/focus.

Yet, the Absolute can be intuited as that where any mind-movement can not go to, the spaceless timeless Absolute "beyond" all experience/movement. Space (or any n-dimensional room) is the first manifestation/arising in the Infinite, and then come appearances which change/move (which is time). And then comes consciousness OF arising/appearance, but only when these building blocks are in place. So already quite late...

And when these first archetypes (space, time, appearances) are "understood/realized" as appearing/arising in Infinite Being/Awareness, and Infinite True Being as always here, as that formless Infinite Reality before which all other states like waking,dreaming, deep sleep, Alien, n+1 "roll" before... That Infinite True Being where attention/focus/Consciousness OF can never "go" but only appear within... then the Absolute/Infinite can be intuited/realized. "One" can stand at the threshold "of" "it" and realize no attention/focus/mind/separate-being/consciousness-OF can ever "go" "there". And paradoxically, "IT" can be realized from looking "back" from one level lower.

All "one" can do is bounce at that threshold (of the Infinite, "its" Event Horizon) and truly realize that NOTHING can ever "go" to the Absolute Infinite Being, since that would already be a movement within it. And this way, paradoxically,IT can finally realize/understand itself.

But all necessary conditions must be met, and separate-self (I thoughts I feelings, the hypnotizing machine of concepts), all arisings of the "outer" world as empty appearances, and time (as always here) and space (normally the last to go and realized as imagined too within the Infinite) must be transcended and seen through. All manifestation, including the first archetypes of time and space... And then the Infinite Ocean of timeless limitless Awareness/appearance can realize itself to be the only Infinite eternal Being, one without a second.

 

Your Muppet-Show Salesman by the River, selling to Himself within Infinite Being

 

Edited May 31 by Water by the River

[Inliytened1]

On 5/29/2024 at 8:37 AM, Leo Gura said:

I'd rather not, as it creates fruitless debate and drama.

@Lost SoulRalston doesn't acknowledge Love as an existential phenomenon- he sees it only as a human emotion.  That's probably the biggest.

@Leo Gura you seem to idolize him and give him way more credit than he's due.  You're right he does not open to other perspective outside of his own.  There are plenty of us genetic freaks out there it doesn't make him some special human.

Edited May 31 by Inliytened1

[Inliytened1]

@Water by the River you astound me.  do you consider yourself enlightened?  What are your thoughts on solipsism and idealism?  YOUR thoughts- I want to hear it from you.  You don't even have to be limited to these definitions - just talk about your ideas of Oneness and how far it goes.

@Leo Gura he may sound like a broken record but he is one of the most interesting characters on the forum.   But yes there is plenty else to talk about @Water by the River!! Expand your horizons immediately! 😀

Edited May 31 by Inliytened1