Peter Ralston interview by Leo Gura.

[Davino]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

You are NOT in control of your level of consciousness. It's not up to you. You're stuck in a dream.

What do you mean with level of consciousness? I'm aware of different states of consciousness and consciousness is definitely fluid.

I figure you are relating it with how a rat cannot surpass his own genetic level of consciousness.

But isn't being a human a construction you can break from anyway?

The human may not have full control over such things but existence being human is another thing. Why should existence have any limits whatsoever regarding higher consciousness?

I'm not getting this restrictions you are setting, probably you assume some context that is not clear to me.

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Do you really think that humans are the most conscious creatures in the universe?

I don't have any direct experience with non-human creatures that would make classic humans look like ants.

20 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The reason I called such people rats is to remind them of where they sit in the great chain of creatures. You do not sit at the top, you sit near the rat. That is what enlightened consciousness is, rat-like consciousness.

I get it, but what is limiting the level of consciousness for such rats if they wanted to get cat-like levels of consciousness?

[The Renaissance Man]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

He's not a normal human being.

In what way? You said he's in his own state of consciousness. I've recently started reading one of his books "The Art Of Mastery", and while really tough, if I went over and over every single chapter, in the end I got what he was pointing at (but maybe this is his easiest book too). I thought that it may simply be to not make his teachings too easy, to force some deep mental understanding processes or something.

But then on YouTube he said that his "effortless power" fighting style was born from him trying to fight effortlessly 10 HOURS A DAY, without seeing ANY result for 10 months!!!!

This is insane. 10 hours a day for months on end, without a single hint of result, until eventually he started seeing some success.

And he said that he discovered that was not normal only once he started teaching others, so he was completely unaware that his work ethic was exceptional (wtf). That another person would've stopped after 2 hours of unsuccessful attempts. This is some robot work ethic.

I'm still new to Ralston so I don't how where he is talented specifically, and whether this talent resides in the insane work ethic (which you need to be genetically gifted for, no way you can persist like that otherwise), or in other aspects that are at a high level regardless of practice.

Edited May 30 by The Renaissance Man

[Leo Gura]

31 minutes ago, Davino said:

What do you mean with level of consciousness? I'm aware of different states of consciousness and consciousness is definitely fluid.

Creatures can be more or less conscious. Yes, state. There are higher and lower states.

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I figure you are relating it with how a rat cannot surpass his own genetic level of consciousness.

But isn't being a human a construction you can break from anyway?

You can deconstruct and remove the human identity, the ego. But you are still left with the kind of state that is made possible by human DNA.

When you become enlightened and lose the ego, you do not turn into a kangaroo. You still have a human body. And you even have a human mind. Your mind does not become unlimited from enlightenment.

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Why should existence have any limits whatsoever regarding higher consciousness?

Existence is unlimited. But your DNA puts you in a human body.

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I don't have any direct experience with non-human creatures that would make classic humans look like ants.

You don't have an experience of being a woman either, but you can imagine it is different than being a man.

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I get it, but what is limiting the level of consciousness for such rats if they wanted to get cat-like levels of consciousness?

Fundamentally their DNA and the structure of their brains. You can change your state, but only within a narrow range that your biology allows.

A human can learn to jump higher, but a human can never fly like a bird.

Edited May 30 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

21 minutes ago, The Renaissance Man said:

In what way? You said he's in his own state of consciousness. I've recently started reading one of his books "The Art Of Mastery", and while really tough, if I went over and over every single chapter, in the end I got what he was pointing at (but maybe this is his easiest book too). I thought that it may simply be to not make his teachings too easy, to force some deep mental understanding processes or something.

I have not read Art of Mastery. It's probably his easiest book. Or you just overlooked the nuance.

Quote

But then on YouTube he said that his "effortless power" fighting style was born from him trying to fight effortlessly 10 HOURS A DAY, without seeing ANY result for 10 months!!!!

This is insane. 10 hours a day for months on end, without a single hint of result, until eventually he started seeing some success.

And he said that he discovered that was not normal only once he started teaching others, so he was completely unaware that his work ethic was exceptional (wtf). That another person would've stopped after 2 hours of unsuccessful attempts. This is some robot work ethic.

I'm still new to Ralston so I don't how where he is talented specifically, and whether this talent resides in the insane work ethic (which you need to be genetically gifted for, no way you can persist like that otherwise), or in other aspects that are at a high level regardless of practice.

Like I said, he is a freak of nature. Go look at our Freaks Of Nature Mega-Thread. That's why I made it.

He didn't become the best martial artist in the world for no good reason.

Edited May 30 by Leo Gura

[zurew]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

A human can learn to jump higher, but a human can never fly like a bird.

From that wouldn't follow that your very concept of completeness or your concept of highest awkening is constrained by your cognition/DNA?

So whatever you think is the complete picture will be always relative and you can never safely say that you actually know the full picture.

 

[Asayake]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I have not read Art of Mastery. It's probably his easiest book. Or you just overlooked the nuance.

Like I said, he is a freak of nature. Go look at our Freaks Of Nature Mega-Thread. That's why I made it.

He didn't become the best martial artist in the world for no good reason.

Is it really true that he was the best martial artist in the world? This part of Ralston's history confuses me in particular, there seems to be very little information on this online and was one of the things which made me doubt Peter Ralston as I suspected he's faking authority.

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, zurew said:

From that wouldn't follow that your very concept of completeness or your concept of highest awkening is constrained by your cognition/DNA?

So whatever you think is the complete picture will be always relative and you can never safely say that you actually know the full picture.

Yes and no.

Your baseline state is constrained but you can have peak experiences into very new states for a while.

And maybe there is a way to transcend the human state but enlightenment ain't that.

7 minutes ago, Asayake said:

Is it really true that he was the best martial artist in the world? This part of Ralston's history confuses me in particular, there seems to be very little information on this online and was one of the things which made me doubt Peter Ralston as I suspected he's faking authority.

You can't ever know who's the best in the world, but he's high up there.

Ralston is too advanced for people to really understand what he accomplished. His accomplishments are not in brute power, they are in the domain of consciousness.

Edited May 30 by Leo Gura

[zurew]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Your baseline state is constrained but you can have peak experiences into very new states for a while.

Would you say that having a higher baseline means having the ability to have  higher peakstates?

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

And maybe there is a way to transcend the human state but enlightenment ain't that.

Yeah but then whatever label we want to add to that state, the exact same problem arise. "How can you know for sure that your concept of full picture isn't limited or undermined by that state?"

[Davino]

44 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

When you become enlightened and lose the ego, you do not turn into a kangaroo. You still have a human body. And you even have a human mind. Your mind does not become unlimited from enlightenment.

I don't care about enlightenment. 

I care about being as conscious as it's humanly possible and then even more.

44 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

A human can learn to jump higher, but a human can never fly like a bird.

Got it

It's a non-progressive leap of consciousness into something totally alien to what was previously experienced. A new domain with its own levels inside it.

44 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You don't have an experience of being a woman either, but you can imagine it is different than being a man.

That was such a curveball.

Edited May 30 by Davino

[Javfly33]

3 hours ago, Yali said:

haha, tell that to a goat. @Javfly33

A goat wont be willing to explore consciousness simply because is not evolved to even think of an Ice Cream or getting a job at McDonald's, let alone thinking about the higuest possibilties.

Leo and you have a simple defect in your thinking. And is that you think Consciousness is limited or compressed into anything. Is not.

Consciousness is Absolutely unbounded and unlimited at all times, including Goats. But Goats do not have an evolved system to be receptive to any kind of Consciousness activation more than the basic one to support a body and mind.

 

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No it isn't.

No human is highly conscious.

You are NOT in control of your level of consciousness. It's not up to you. You're stuck in a dream.

Oh Leo, Leo... You dissappoint me brother.

You have to open a bit of possibility.

If not you Will think you have gotten to the end and you havent scratched the 5% of what is possible in a human body.

Which would be a pity. Because the possibility is there but you are too convinced that humans are about limitation, when is actually the opposite. 

If you have a goat body as @Yali says, It wouldnt be a problem for you to be satisfied with the limitations of It. 

But having a human body and not exploring the possibilities is...well, like not reving up the Ferrari more than 2500rpm.

Edited May 30 by Javfly33

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, zurew said:

Would you say that having a higher baseline means having the ability to have  higher peakstates?

Yes. But it's not just a simple matter of higher or lower. There is a huge horizontal dimension to Consciousness. Which means, not higher not lower, but just wildly different in quality.

Quote

Yeah but then whatever label we want to add to that state, the exact same problem arise. "How can you know for sure that your concept of full picture isn't limited or undermined by that state?"

It's generally safe to assume that there's always more. But also, don't get stuck looking at it as single linear dimension of highest and lowest. The most interesting stuff is the sideways dimension. And there seems to be infinite sideways dimension so you're not gonna get it all.

2 minutes ago, Davino said:

I don't care about enlightenment.

Enlightenment is good too. You should care about it. It's just not all there is to Consciousness.

[Starlight321]

@Leo Gura I've recently met a girl who is a real freak of nature. She has an iq of over 170 and there are only like 100 people in europe like her. it was a bit like talking to an alien. From that I can only imagine what's like alien consciousness because I'm smart too but I felt so very stupid in her company.

[Davino]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Enlightenment is good too. You should care about it. It's just not all there is to Consciousness.

In fact I do care but it's a sideway quest.

I would rather have a moment of Omniscience than enlightenment

 

[zurew]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's generally safe to assume that there's always more. But also, don't get stuck looking at it as single linear dimension of highest and lowest. The most interesting stuff is the sideways dimension. And there seems to be infinite sideways dimension so you're not gonna get it all.

Thats interesting, I think I you have talked about  the 2 axes in the past (the y and x dimensions)

Now the even more interesting thing about this could be that you may add even more axis to this analysis as you progress further on the previous axes (in this case the x and y) - meaning these two axes are not the full picture about how much dimensionality you can add to conciousness.

Edited May 30 by zurew

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

But having a human body and not exploring the possibilities is...well, like not reving up the Ferrari more than 2500rpm.

I never said not to explore. In fact I say to explore. It's nondualists who tell you not to explore.

A human can raise its consciousness. It's just limited.

1 hour ago, Davino said:

In fact I do care but it's a sideway quest.

I would rather have a moment of Omniscience than enlightenment

Don't be so quick to choose. You don't know what you want until you try it. You are given two black boxes and you say you want black box #2 instead of #1. This is a meaningless choice.

1 hour ago, zurew said:

these two axes are not the full picture about how much dimensionality you can add to conciousness.

That's right.

Even 2 or 3 axes is just a simplistic way to talk about it. It's not really mappable at all. There are millions of qualitatively different states.

It's like you're trying to map all the fruits on a 1D, 2D, or 3D chart. But each fruit is its own unique thing. They have some similarities but you cannot reduce all the fruits to one chart.

Edited May 30 by Leo Gura

[zurew]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's right.

Even 2 or 3 axes is just a simplistic way to talk about it. It's not really mappable at all. There are millions of qualitatively different states.

It's like you're trying to map all the fruits on a 1D, 2D, or 3D chart. But each fruit is its own unique thing. They have some similarities but you cannot reduce all the fruits to one chart.

I guess this is kind of similar to other things in that as you learn more, you gain the ability to recognize more nuance and you gain the ability to make finer distinctions.

[Nemra]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

A human can raise its consciousness. It's just limited.

Even with psychedelics?

[Leo Gura]

27 minutes ago, Nemra said:

Even with psychedelics?

Look, understand what it is that I do here. I explore Consciousness to discover things about it. It's like exploring the Earth back 2000 years ago. You never know what you'll find. All I'm doing is exploring Consciousness and making certain observations about it. This doesn't mean I have all the answers. I speak of what I have discovered so far, and who knows what I will discover tomorrow. So I don't place any limits on it. But what is obvious is that humans are generally stuck in a very narrow band of consciousness, regardless of whether they are enlightened or not.

As a basic example, an enlightened man can fail at a basic thing like understanding what the consciousness of a woman is like. A woman does not have the same consciousness as a man. It's qualitatively different. Even though of course Nothingness is at the root of all consciousness. But reducing it to Nothingness means you still don't understand the consciousness of a woman. To understand the consciousness of a woman you'd have to stop being a man and become a woman. And if you actually did that, your understanding of consciousness would grow.

Edited May 30 by Leo Gura

[strika]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

A human can learn to jump higher, but a human can never fly like a bird.

I know that's not the point of this convo but never say never 😂😂

 

[Nemra]

@Leo Gura

I was trying to understand your perspective. I wanted to know if you had found some limitations about psychedelics, because it seemed that you had.

34 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

To understand the consciousness of a woman you'd have to stop being a man and become a woman. And if you actually did that, your understanding of consciousness would grow.

That makes a lot of sense to me.

Edited May 30 by Nemra