On Thoughts Vs. Reality

[Gopackgo]

Something popped into my head the other day that I wanted to share. I have given no regard to non-duality semantics in this post...

Why do you think thoughts are closer to you than physical reality? Isn't reality more fundamental to what you are than thoughts?

If you think about it (not to much hopefully) the physical reality one is in is the fundamental experience of existence. It is uncontrollable. You cant choose whether you want to see today, you just wake up, and boom... reality is there. Thoughts are very much secondary. For purposes of this post, I want to imagine they are separate from physical reality. Imagine whats around you as a bubble of what is (as if all of it is being created by your brain or something). This bubble is what is. It always is and the nature of it is unchangeable. Now think of thoughts. Where would they be in the bubble? It seems that they are dependent on what is in a physical reality doesn't it? I mean, without what is, how can you possibly have anything to think about. Is it your experience that there is a physical reality and that the content of thought seem to impose or project what "should" be on them? Does physical reality care what thoughts think it should be, or is it just what it is regardless. It would seem that if physical reality is the fundamental bubble, then thoughts float around the edges. They may be part of reality, but in many ways, they are irrelevant, and often tend to confuse.

This raises important questions. If thoughts are obviously not the most fundamental thing to what you are, why do you continue to believe that thoughts are you? If thoughts have no basis on reality, why do you continue to trust them to lead you to what is reality? Look around you. That is reality. That is what is. There is nothing outside of that. Recognize this, and realize that you will never think your way to "enlightenment", you can only be it by being. However, don't for a second think that somehow all the things created by the mind (i.e. every fucking sensation) is separate from you compared to thoughts. It all occurs in the same space. It is all you, and it could not be any other way than it is. Thoughts can do nothing to control what is. What is the self composed of ? Thoughts/beliefs. You can't use the Buddha to seek the Buddha. Thinking occurs in reality, and they occur right now. The more thinking that occurs, the less attention there is on what is for sure happening. Ignore the peanut gallery and just be what you are.

This is just a model/story, but I thought it would be helpful maybe. 

[WelcometoReality]

6 hours ago, Gopackgo said:

The more thinking that occurs, the less attention there is on what is for sure happening. Ignore the peanut gallery and just be what you are.

Beautiful post! Thanks for sharing. 

My view of it is that the thoughts occur. There is no control over how much or little thoughts occur. If we give attention to the senses instead the thoughts will lessen in quantity. 

[PureExp]

Good post and I agree with @WelcometoReality

My direct experience is that -  thoughts, memories, imaginations, emotions are already there, just like colors, sounds and shapes are already there, we as consciousness, merely experience those. We do not "cause" thoughts to appear, they appear, we see them. So not much difference between physical and non-physical contents of consciousness.

So why do these contents get divided into two kinds - physical and mental (non-physical)?

The obvious answer is - physical contents are mediated via senses, non-physical ones are directly perceived. Our minds organizes physical stuff more carefully, i.e. in space and time, and externalizes them. Why? Because survival of the organism depends on that. The non-physical is not organized much, it is perceived just like an invisible bubble and is non-local, has no shape/color or any sensual qualities.

So which is more near to us? And which is more real?

Well, depending on your personal tastes, you can call both unreal (illusory) or equally real (they are just experiences, style of appearance/presentation does not really matter).

Anyhow, the important thing is, and as you said, one should not identify with thoughts or mental processes (like emotions), or with body (which is a physical object/process). The real you is always the observer, witness, the consciousness... Its the *most* real "thing" there is.

[electroBeam]

@Gopackgo

Colours and sounds are metaphysical qualities, but the amazing part is that, we actually don't know much about them. We don't experience a chair, we experience a set of colours right?

Now thoughts are most certainly real, like colours, but we have do idea of whether what they represent are real.

So thoughts and the 'external world' are very similar to each other. 

[Gopackgo]

@WelcometoReality  There is 0 control over thoughts. There is no one controlling anything. It is all just random. Thoughts provide a context and then the me uses context to assume knowledge about what is. Meanwhile it is made of nothing. The thing that thinks it knows is made of unknowing and arises in absolute unknowing. People dont control their thoughts. If there is no control, there is no ownership. There is no control over what focuses either. The entire concept of control is illusion. That what the me is. Thats my experience at least. There is an illusion of a central executive that is in control of at least somethings, but it is all just happening. It is insane.

@PureExp I dont really know how to say this.. The word consciousness and awareness I think confuses things. This isnt a criticism by any means. Just a thought. Both words inherently suggest separation. Theres no one to be aware. Things just happen. I understand that the concepts may be the easiest way to express what is, but do you know what I mean? There are no other words coming to me. There is 0 separation for sure though. That is really obvious when seen. It couldn't be any other way. The thing is that if it is all one, there is no room for an intelligence. That seems to happen as a part of oneness, but as we know is mascaraed as the illusion of control - i.e. "me". All sensations arise at random, like all the normal ones, but also the sensation of movement. It is easily assumed that sensations are somehow different because of how they happen to manifest. It is really amazing. I cant think of better words other than just saying "this", but that word is almost useless in truly capturing it.

@electroBeam Thoughts and the external world are the exact same thing. They seem real, but occur and are composed of nothing, so they also arent real. There is really no difference between sensations of any kind. The illusion is that there is a difference, and that they are experienced by something, but there is no experience of them. Who would experience them?

Anyways, thanks for the responses. words really do fail to describe what is. It would be frustrating if it wasn't absolutely amazing.

[SOUL]

Physical reality exists as it does regardless of thoughts about it although thoughts are a part of the physical reality.

Thoughts are merely a tool used by our brain to display information in our mind to give context to the experience we are having.

How useful those tools are for the task varies greatly and if a person finds the ones they have to be useless they can seek to influence the tool kit the mind has.

We have thoughts, we are not our thoughts, they are merely tools so don't be our thoughts, don't be a tool.