Permenant cessation of ego structure

[bambi]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

What you guys should understand about me is that I have very different priorities than most spiritual people.

I do not care about ego, or maximizing a joyous life, or any other thing that spiritual people care about.

I care about pure consciousness and understanding. So that's my bias and focus.

Frankly, I don't know what will create the most joyous life because it never even occured to me to care.

But I am fine with you having your own spiritual priorities.

Ego has many degrees to it and could be defined in various ways. You have a sense of human self that Consciousness is imagining. This goes so deep that it even includes your memories of your own name. If your sense of self was wiped out deeply enough, you could not even remember your own name or that you were born from a mother. Consciousness could even replace your sense of self with a totally different sense of self. For example, you could adopt the Leo sense of self. Your sense of self is a very complex and sophisticated thing.

I suggest that you stop taking the word "ego" or "self" for granted and actually investigate in your experience what "ego" refers to for you. For example, when we say that Trump has a big ego, what exactly does that mean?

Generally speaking, reducing ego increases joy. So that's a simple rule you can follow.

Interesting. In the 2019 blog video, it seemed that your veiws in the video corroborated all other spiritual teachings in the essence of ego being a seperative mechansim to reality, and a source of all mental/emotional suffering

Now it seems you dont buy the same paradigm or view point at all?

I understand that not all egos are equal in size, power and selfishness/cruelty/bias, but I guess the main point I took from that video and other spiritual works is: your sense of seperated small self can be completely and utterly dissolved, and life can continue after, but it seems you dont agree with this anymore

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, bambi said:

your sense of seperated small self can be completely and utterly dissolved

That is true.

But there is still the question of whether that is temporary or permanent. And if it is permanent, what degree of it became permanent. Some aspects of self could still be operational, and most likely will be.

It's not a good idea to treat ego as a simple on/off binary. Although certainly there can be a state in which ego is just zero. Whether you will attain that as a permanent state I cannot say.

Edited May 26 by Leo Gura

[bambi]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

That is true.

But then there is still the question of whether that is temporary or permanent. And if it is permanent, what degree of it became permanent. Some aspects of self could still be operational, and mostly likely will be.

It's not a good idea to treat this ego situation as a simple on/off binary.

I dont have direct experience in this, I am not at that level yet so Im only repeating what other 'enlightened' or nondual teachers have wrote or spoke to me

It seems that the beleve that there was a 'self' behind the eyes controlling or doing anything is permentnatly gone. The context change from duality to nonduality. The energetic/emotional contraction/pain/traumas accumulated since  a child and attributed to a self completely gone

I guess if I could sum it up: they are claiming that the negative emotional states of conciousness are gone, the contractions associated with that are gone, the pain associated with it are gone, the escapisms/compulsions associated with it are gone, the sense of identity creaitng the personal linear self is gone, and along with the default mode of time has changed to non-linear etc etc

To what degree do you corroborate this? Can we expect pscyhedelics to help achieve this if it is achievable? 

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, bambi said:

It seems that the beleve that there was a 'self' behind the eyes controlling or doing anything is permentnatly gone. The context change from duality to nonduality. The energetic/emotional contraction/pain/traumas accumulated since  a child and attributed to a self completely gone

I guess if I could sum it up: they are claiming that the negative emotional states of conciousness are gone, the contractions associated with that are gone, the pain associated with it are gone, the escapisms/compulsions associated with it are gone, the sense of identity creaitng the personal linear self is gone, and along with the default mode of time has changed to non-linear etc etc

It's probably possible. But there are degrees to all this, and this notion of removing all negative emotions is far-fretched. Realistically you will still have negative emotions, suffering, addictions, false beliefs, attachments, and so forth.

People love to idealize this whole thing into some fantasy of total perfect enlightenment. But if you actually look at how these so-called enlightened people live, they are not so perfect.

Quote

Can we expect pscyhedelics to help achieve this if it is achievable? 

Psychedelics temporarily raise your level of consciousness. That is all. However, this rise can lead to all sorts of crazy realizations which you would otherwise never have. There is wild variety to the kinds of realizations possible.

Do not expect psychedelics to permanently remove your ego. The function of psychedelics is to give you a massive gain in consciousness for a short period of time. That is how you should think of them.

Edited May 26 by Leo Gura

[bambi]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

It's probably possible. But there are degrees to all this, and this notion of removing all negative emotions is far-fretched. Realistically you will still have negative emotions, suffering, addictions, false beliefs, attachments, and so forth.

People love to idealize this whole thing into some fantasy of total perfect enlightenment. But if you actually look at how these so-called enlightened people live, they are not so perfect.

Psychedelics temporarily raise your level of consciousness. That is all. However, this rise can lead to all sorts of crazy realizations which you would otherwise never have. There wild variety to the kinds of realizations possible.

Do not expect psychedelics to permanently remove your ego.

Im sure you studied some of David Hawkins stuff, he has a pretty comprehensive model(s) and bodies of work on all of this. Do you think he was a charlatan? He doesnt come across that way at all from what Ive seen. He clearly thinks its possible to transcend the ego and all if its pleasures and sorrows to God as a permenant way of life

[bambi]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Psychedelics temporarily raise your level of consciousness. That is all. However, this rise can lead to all sorts of crazy realizations which you would otherwise never have. There wild variety to the kinds of realizations possible.

Do not expect psychedelics to permanently remove your ego.

Thanks, I had the wrong expectation from posts on this forum and that 2019 video blog post that they were going to remove the ego permenantly, so was ordering tons of 5meo malt and dmt lol!

[Leo Gura]

Just now, bambi said:

Im sure you studied some of David Hawkins stuff, he has a pretty comprehensive model(s) and bodies of work on all of this. Do you think he was a charlatan? He doesnt come across that way at all from what Ive seen. He clearly thinks its possible to transcend the ego and all if its pleasures and sorrows to God as a permenant way of life

No, he was not a charlatan. There is much good in his teachings, but also some parts I don't agree with.

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, bambi said:

Thanks, I had the wrong expectation from posts on this forum and that 2019 video blog post that they were going to remove the ego permenantly, so was ordering tons of 5meo malt and dmt lol!

Before you order tons, do a few trips and see how you like it. You will see how it works.

Psychedelics also give understanding, which helps with making sense of the whole spiritual terrain. This is different from permanent ego loss, but it is also very valuable.

Edited May 26 by Leo Gura

[bambi]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No, he was not a charlatan. There is much good in his teachings, but also some parts I don't agree with.

Out of curiosity if you could surrender your ego to God including all the thinking/contemplating etc, replaced with silence, peace etc, would you even want to at this point in your life? Perhaps you have different goals then some of us here in this regard

[What Am I]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No, he was not a charlatan. There is much good in his teachings, but also some parts I don't agree with.

I agree on his authenticity, even though he did lean pretty heavily on kinesiology, which is somewhat shaky in itself. As you mentioned, there's a perception that these teachers are infallible, which is obviously not the case.

[bambi]

Just now, What Am I said:

I agree on his authenticity, even though he did lean pretty heavily on kinesiology, which is somewhat shaky in itself. As you mentioned, there's a perception that these teachers are infallible, which is obviously not the case.

Yes kineasology would be hard to trust as an absolute measure, lots of possible confounds even if the premise is true.

I think all enlightened or ego-less peoples still have lots of personality/individuality, and they can be hard to make sense of from external examination

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, bambi said:

Out of curiosity if you could surrender your ego to God including all the thinking/contemplating etc, replaced with silence, peace etc, would you even want to at this point in your life? Perhaps you have different goals then some of us here in this regard

All thinking to silence, no.

Other stuff yes.

[What Am I]

Just now, bambi said:

I think all enlightened or ego-less peoples still have lots of personality/individuality, and they can be hard to make sense of from external examination

Right, and it's even the case that they're often far more boisterous than the average person. At least the famous ones we hear about. I'd be curious to hear about the behavior of the ones nobody is aware of.

[bambi]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

All thinking to silence, no.

Other stuff yes.

Interesting as a type 5 ennegram that would be your main attachment. I have you has a 584 tri-type the scholar https://wiki.personality-database.com/books/enneagram/page/458-the-scholar-archetype same as peterson and hawkins actually, all 3 are INTP 584 ennegrams

 

Thats interesting to me, that if God said you dont need to think anymore, and every moment in your life will be pure peace bliss and perfection with divinity shining through, you wouldnt take that trade. Guess we all have different attachments. God speed broski

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, bambi said:

Thats interesting to me, that if God said you dont need to think anymore, and every moment in your life will be pure peace bliss and perfection with divinity shining through, you wouldnt take that trade. Guess we all have different attachments. God speed broski

I regard that as a spiritual fantasy.

What really matters to me is Consciousness, and that does not preclude thinking. In fact, it includes crazy new dimensions of thinking, like Alien Thinking.

The ideal of mental silence is just some silly thing created by Buddhist types. It doesn't capture the full scope of Consciousness.

Edited May 26 by Leo Gura

[bambi]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

I regrad this a spirutual fantasy.

What really matters to me is Consciousness, and that does not preclude thinking. In fact, it inude crazy new dimensions of thinking, like Alien Thinking.

The ideal of mental silence is just some silly thing created by Buddhist types. It doesn't capture the full scope of Consciousness.

Fair it was actually from a David Hawkins lecture I got this. He said at some point you trust God and even surrender your compulsion and need to think, and that God will take care of the rest

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, bambi said:

He said at some point you trust God and even surrender your compulsion and need to think, and that God will take care of the rest

Sure, you can do that for a while.

Notice, David Hawkins did A LOT of thinking after all his so called enlightements. Don't let these guys bullshit you. They all think, and many of them think poorly.

Any Buddhist who tells you he doesn't think, you can just laugh at him.

Edited May 26 by Leo Gura

[bambi]

Hawkins seems to corroborate this @Leo Gura

[Ryan M]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No, he was not a charlatan. There is much good in his teachings, but also some parts I don't agree with.

What are the main ideas that you don’t agree with from David Hawkins? Outside of using kinesiology to calibrate things..

[bambi]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Sure, you can do that for a while.

Notice, David Hawkins did A LOT of thinking after all his so called enlightements. Don't let these guys bullshit you. They all think, and many of them think poorly.

Any Buddhist who tells you he doesn't think, you can just laugh at him.

I think Hawkins comes across more Christian then Buddhist tbh, I dont seem he claiming to be a Buddhist

And yes I know what you mean, they all seem to create and speak being so called enlightened. I just dont see them as decieving or lieing to us about this though, they seem to have integrity