Permenant cessation of ego structure

[What Am I]

10 minutes ago, bambi said:

Fair it was actually from a David Hawkins lecture I got this. He said at some point you trust God and even surrender your compulsion and need to think, and that God will take care of the rest

I think you hit on the key point there though. It's the removal of the habitual need of nonstop thinking, which certainly can leave your mind quieter, but doesn't leave it completely without the tool of logical thought. This is backed up by other teachers as well, such as Eckhart Tolle. He describes transitioning between periods of silence and thought, thereby increasing the power and inspiration of thought when it does occur.

Edited May 26 by What Am I

[What Am I]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Notice, David Hawkins did A LOT of thinking after all his so called enlightements. Don't let these guys bullshit you. They all think, and many of them think poorly.

LOL this is probably true, I get the same impression.

[Leo Gura]

30 minutes ago, bambi said:

I think Hawkins comes across more Christian then Buddhist tbh, I dont seem he claiming to be a Buddhist

I was speaking more broadly, not him specifically.

In case you haven't noticed, I got an axe to grind against Buddhists.

Quote

I just dont see them as decieving or lieing to us about this though, they seem to have integrity

They are not lying, but they still live in a sort of enlightened spiritual human fantasy. A lot of fantasy still takes place even after all the enlightenment. MIND is always making shit up. That's how reality is created. People are creating their own realities and living in them. Enlightened people are not above this.

This is why I proritize understanding. Without understanding you will not understand how MIND is doing this. MIND is a tricky fucking beast and enlightenment is not the end it.

Imagine being fully enlightened and thinking Ben Shapiro is great. That's the reality of enlightenment.

Edited May 26 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

22 minutes ago, Ryan M said:

What are the main ideas that you don’t agree with from David Hawkins? Outside of using kinesiology to calibrate things..

I don't agree with his scale of consciousness.

His political ideas are quite bad. He thinks climate change is fake. He thinks Ben Shaprio is great.

The Christian flavors in his work are limiting.

I can't remember what else. I haven't read his stuff in a while.

But at the same time, he has some awesome insights too. So it's worth studying.

Edited May 26 by Leo Gura

[What Am I]

47 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Imagine being fully enlightened and thinking Ben Shapiro is great. That's the reality of enlightenment.

Wouldn't that be a bit of a conflation though, and perhaps not a proper measurement of a person's skill at first person states of awakening? Or is that what you're saying, that even though Hawkins has authentic spiritual skill, his opinions are perhaps based on weak logic, because the mind and awareness don't necessarily go hand-in-hand?

It brings to mind the stories of enlightened monks in remote areas who don't realize the world is round.

[Lyubov]

from my experience life is an inclusive experience so there is no end to what you call ego as long as the human life story is ongoing, and why would there be? it's what makes you, you. The balance of the higher mind with your humanity. It's not some fault or mistake. Now on psychedelics I have experienced a total shift in perception. I would say the journey entails aligning the ego with the higher mind and enjoying life. 

[Leo Gura]

19 minutes ago, What Am I said:

Wouldn't that be a bit of a conflation though, and perhaps not a proper measurement of a person's skill at first person states of awakening? Or is that what you're saying, that even though Hawkins has authentic spiritual skill, his opinions are perhaps based on weak logic, because the mind and awareness don't necessarily go hand-in-hand?

It brings to mind the stories of enlightened monks in remote areas who don't realize the world is round.

What I mean is, you can be so-called enlightened and still hold bad or deluded views. So clearly enlightenment is not the full picture to this work.

And I don't mean this in a trivial way, like an enlightened guy forgets where he put his keys. I mean existentially significant gaps in the mind.

Which is why ego-loss is not my top priority. You guys keep being puzzled why I don't have the same priorities as every other spiritual rodent.

Edited May 27 by Leo Gura

[What Am I]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

What I mean is, you can be so-called enlightened and still hold bad or deluded views. So clearly enlightenment is not the full picture to this work.

And I don't mean this in a trivial way, like an enlightened guy forgets where he put his keys. I mean existentially significant gaps in the mind.

Which is why ego-loss is not my top priority. You guys keep being puzzled why I don't have the same priorities as every other spiritual rodent.

Gotcha, I'd agree with the general premise.

I very strongly suspect that way more is possible in the human experience than what we're seeing from our visible "TV" gurus. If you're saying there's potential way beyond what they're displaying or are currently capable of doing, I'm with you there.

Edited May 27 by What Am I

[Leo Gura]

The terrain of Consciousness is a lot more interesting and tricky than they make it out to be.

[Hojo]

If you return it cant be permanent. The ego structure is linked to the channel you are right now. You program your channel to work the way you want it too and it will move by itself. When you return to your channel you are simultaneously returning to your ego structure. If you didnt return to your channel you wouldn't be here to say anything. Coming back into the body is like turning the channel down 100000 times very fast and if you pay attention while returning you can actually see your channel forming back to the way it was and you can see the ego form in real time.

Like agent smith hacking into someones body. If you were agent smith and you were just like energetically entering a body you see the body has all these processes working by itself and you would see your consciousness forming around the identity structure immediately as its energy and body and they are separate but one.

Edited May 27 by Hojo

[bambi]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

What I mean is, you can be so-called enlightened and still hold bad or deluded views. So clearly enlightenment is not the full picture to this work.

And I don't mean this in a trivial way, like an enlightened guy forgets where he put his keys. I mean existentially significant gaps in the mind.

Which is why ego-loss is not my top priority. You guys keep being puzzled why I don't have the same priorities as every other spiritual rodent.

When you insult people  by calling them spiritual rodents etc how are you getting away with this negativity on psychedelics, do they not show you this type of ill-will or negativity as a bad thing or it lead to bad trips? I always get shown this type of thing to be something I should let go of

[CosmicExplorer]

11 hours ago, bambi said:

I guess if I could sum it up: they are claiming that the negative emotional states of conciousness are gone, the contractions associated with that are gone, the pain associated with it are gone, the escapisms/compulsions associated with it are gone, the sense of identity creaitng the personal linear self is gone, and along with the default mode of time has changed to non-linear etc etc

OK, but suffering associated with that is maybe like max 35% of total human suffering. There's still a shit load of human/animal mental/physical suffering that only perhaps fentanyl/heroin can put a big dent in and it doesn't work long-term due to tolerance/withdrawal.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, bambi said:

When you insult people  by calling them spiritual rodents etc how are you getting away with this negativity on psychedelics, do they not show you this type of ill-will or negativity as a bad thing or it lead to bad trips? I always get shown this type of thing to be something I should let go of

I am working to let go of it. But I also try to be humorous.

[Water by the River]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I am working to let go of it. But I also try to be humorous.

... and no imagined rodent has been hurt 

 

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

They are not lying, but they still live in a sort of enlightened spiritual human fantasy. A lot of fantasy still takes place even after all the enlightenment. MIND is always making shit up. That's how reality is created. People are creating their own realities and living in them. Enlightened people are not above this.

This is why I proritize understanding. Without understanding you will not understand how MIND is doing this. MIND is a tricky fucking beast and enlightenment is not the end it.

Imagine being fully enlightened and thinking Ben Shapiro is great. That's the reality of enlightenment.

Enlightenment doesn't mean that one is always right when it comes to relative truth like the things you mention.

It just meaning knowing what you truly are, and what Reality is. Answers to both is the same. And on top, having that accessible all the time means nothing else than being to switch off/cut-off any ignorant I-thought and I-feeling of being only this little body mind, which makes the states (1)-(4) available all the time.

And this can be done (without lying to oneself) if the Awakened State is accessible anytime

• (1) Infinite boundlessness of the Visual Field (and any other perception/dimension)
• (2) its groundlessness, or mere-appearance (imagined) character "hovering" in Infinity
• (3) the eternal nature of this Infinite Reality/Consciousness is always known
• (4) there is no (zero!) separate-self I-thought/feeling still hypnotizing. Impersonal. Empty. Silent. Vast. Yet, giving rise to all appearances and thoughts. And if one chooses to, one can cut off these thoughts/feelings off in real-time. The magic word is real-time, Or high-speed cut-off of any thought/feeling arising that ignorantly believes in being only this body-mind. Speed & strength of awareness, before any thoughts starts hypnotizing oneself and are believed&elaborated. And that takes normally many years. But its worth it.
• The high-speed cutting of of (4) isn't always necessary, but that ability is what opens up the Awakened states described in (1-3). And if thoughts then rise again, simple mindfulness lets let flow in Infinite Being without believing them, if (1)-(3) are powerful enough.
• And: Being able to generate (1)-(3) with (4) induces so much bliss that the annoying separate-self arisings don't "grip", even if they are not cut off in realtime but just watched in mindfulness. Ego-wanting/avoiding only grips when one is not in a positive enough state already.

One has a human, but one isn't one. True Being is Infinite Reality. That doesn't mean one does stupid things for to ones relative vehicle, like James hand-into-the-fire. Beings who know their True Nature are not brain dead.

And that is having Absolute Truth always available. Or Enlightenment. It is not an idea, and there is zero doubt about it that this is final. Can't get more infinite than infinite, and there is and only can only be THAT. And any Alien, ET or way-out-spectacular-appearance-of-consciousness appears only in THAT. Nice to understand&see, but not really urgent in any way.

There were enlightened Zen Masters who thought Japans Imperial Wars were great. So one can be totally wrong on relative stuff. But the Absolute stuff must be handled.

Selling smiling little annoying Buddhist-rodents by the River 

Edited May 27 by Water by the River

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Water by the River said:

But the Absolute stuff must be handled.

And the absolute stuff can also be wrong.

As I said, I am not talking trivial things here.

Edited May 27 by Leo Gura

[bambi]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I am working to let go of it. But I also try to be humorous.

You calling spiritual people rodents/rats and using this termonology influenced a lot of negative trips to myself actually. I was looking at you as an authority figure, and this language was pointed at myself which caused a lot of fear and anxiety, I would then have nightmares of being eaten by rats, very terrorfying lol!

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, bambi said:

You calling spiritual people rodents/rats and using this termonology influenced a lot of negative trips to myself actually. I was looking at you as an authority figure, and this language was pointed at myself which caused a lot of fear and anxiety, I would then have nightmares of being eaten by rats, very terrorfying lol!

Interesting feedback.

[What Am I]

Jeez lol. I don't envy people in the spiritual spotlight like Leo and others. It must be exhausting having to watch everything you say, not knowing what kind of impact it may have with so many paying attention.

[Water by the River]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

And the absolute stuff can also be wrong.

Yup. When "it" is not Absolute. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_(philosophy)

Can't get more Absolute than Absolute, can't get more Infinite than Infinite.

I agree in so far that many Enlightenments (by far most of them) are announced when it is not Great-(Zen-lingo) or final/full-Enlightenment (Impersonal, Death of the separate self, real Satori), but just Nonduality, or Unity of the separate-self with the universe (just nondual, not impersonal, just unity of personal + Universe, or Kensho). Or, the difference between waking up and a nondual dream.

 

[Water by the River]

12 minutes ago, bambi said:

You calling spiritual people rodents/rats and using this termonology influenced a lot of negative trips to myself actually. I was looking at you as an authority figure, and this language was pointed at myself which caused a lot of fear and anxiety, I would then have nightmares of being eaten by rats, very terrorfying lol!

Um, guess I was lucky then that neither the hungry rodents nor any crocodiles who skipped lunch did manage to get into my dreams