What Leo said on light meditation

[Leo Gura]

53 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

Like any other being, it seems to me you strive for what brings you satisfaction.

Of course. But that is very different from pleasure-seeking, including spiritual pleasure-seeking.

Notice, my work has never taught spiritual pleasure-seeking, because that's obviously a trap. As I said, pleasure is a nice byproduct when occassionally it comes. And I enjoy those moments but I don't make the work about that.

Edited May 26 by Leo Gura

[Salvijus]

If the goal of your meditation is to become more aware, perceptive, insightful. Even 5 mins of self reflecting per day will give results in that direction. 

But if you desire to purify and dissolve your ego, you may have to lock yourself in isolation somewhere for longer periods to allow the agony to work itself through. 

If you want to awaken to God's love, no amount of dissosiactive type of meditation is going to work. A completly different approch is needed.

Similarly each path has a unique approch, objective and conditions for success. You can't just pile everything into one subject as if it's all the same. 

Edited May 26 by Salvijus

[Water by the River]

 1 hour ago, Water by the River said: Like any other being, it seems to me you strive for what brings you satisfaction.

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course. But that is very different from pleasure-seeking, including spiritual pleasure-seeking.

Notice, my work has never taught spiritual pleasure-seeking, because that's obviously a trap. As I said, pleasure is a nice byproduct when occassionally it comes. And I enjoy those moments but I don't make the work about that.

Now you equate pleasure with bliss or non-suffering. Which I didn't do:

1 hour ago, Water by the River said:

Like any other being, it seems to me you strive for what brings you satisfaction. And even if that comes from "Infinitely Consciousness"-ET/research/n+1 or whatever.

Dukkha=unsatisfaction (unsatisfying is a much better translation than suffering) = separate self = appearing/imagined opposite of bliss & love of Infinite Being.

The Sat & Chit in Sat-Chit-Ananda, or the bliss & love that a sobre Awakened Nondual State brings is also not pleasure, and I assume you are well aware of that. 

1 hour ago, Water by the River said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saccidānanda

Sat!

Chit!

So lets look up Wikipedia (I know..)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleasure

"Pleasure is part of various other mental states such as ecstasy, euphoria and flow. Happiness and well-being are closely related to pleasure but not identical with it."

"Pleasure refers to experience that feels good, that involves the enjoyment OF something".  For example of Infinite-Consciousness-chasing-exploration.

The bliss or love of Awakened Nondual States doesn't NEED the enjoyment OF something.

Then we would have to consider the nondual essence Nothingness behind all appearance as OF something.

Which luckily it isn't, because it is not OF something (but Infinite Being, Nothingness and nondual appearance and not something specific IN/OF it)

 

Selling the basic difference between pleasure and between causeless Sat-Chit-Ananda by the River

 

[Javfly33]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It has nothing to do with bliss or pleasure. It is simply about degree of consciousness.

Ken Wilber's comprehension of consciousnes is good, but still limited.

 

@Leo Gura That clears up a lot of things.

Just know that you are not actually doing Spirituality, what you are doing in an endless entanglement endeavour. 

Proper Spiritual path is discarding absolutely everything that is not moving you towards liberation. 

The road does not end until this being is completely Free.

How long you want to make the time on the road is up to you ,you can entangle yourself endlessly, just don´t think people that want to go in a more straight way towards the ultimate are less than you. They are actually the ones that are actually on the spiritual path.

You are doing something else, which is fine, is just not Spirituality, you clearly demonstrate with those words, you are not on that. 

 

Quote

Ironically, it is meditators and Buddhists who love to talk about sitting around basking in bliss. When they should be talking about Consciousness.

Bro....really?

The point is the Experience of Being. Because you are the Being. Not the understanding. 

Understanding = Identification. 

Your being still do not want to break the bondage. Just don´t think those who want are the dumb ones.

Bliss is itself the Being!

And with your pair of balls you say 'the point is not Bliss but understanding' 😂 hilarious bro.

Much Love. Everyone goes at his own pace. ..

Edited May 26 by Javfly33

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Water by the River said:

Like any other being, it seems to me you strive for what brings you satisfaction

Well, it depends. That seems like a hedonistic approach. If you take responsibility for your path you do things because you have to do them. For example, at some point you may have to offer yourself to be crucified, or participate in a medieval cavalry charge, or perhaps rip out the heart of your firstborn with an obsidian knife and eat it, because the gods demand it. 

Your happiness is irrelevant at any given moment, since ultimately happiness is what you are. what is relevant is the movement of the cosmos, and what it demands 

There is something wrong in the idea about suffering is like a mistake of nature that should to be solved. Suffering exist as anything else, because reality wants, or if you prefer, god wants. The Buddhist idea of the end of suffering seems like , let's fix the mistakes of god. Id think it's much better accept the suffering and enjoy it, because it's unavoidable, the end of suffering is a chimera

Edited May 26 by Breakingthewall

[Water by the River]

17 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

For example, at some point you may have to offer yourself to be crucified, or participate in a medieval cavalry charge, or perhaps rip out the heart of your firstborn with an obsidian knife and eat it, because the gods demand it. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e78ZGCm4jtU&t=84s

Sorry, didn't find that in english. 

 

Edited May 26 by Water by the River

[Breakingthewall]

43 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e78ZGCm4jtU&t=84s

Sorry, didn't find that in english. 

 

I don't understand German 🤣

But the point is, if those hellish kindoms that you mentioned exist, you will be on them. Infinitely, in the infinite turns of the cosmos. No scape

Edited May 26 by Breakingthewall

[Leo Gura]

@Water by the River It is possible to seek spiritual pleasure. And what I said is that I don't promote that. I don't regard you as seeking spiritual pleasure.

Bliss could refer to pleasure, or maybe not. People use words in different ways.

Edited May 26 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

And with your pair of balls you say 'the point is not Bliss but understanding' 😂 hilarious bro.

Nothing hilarous about it.

You get to set your own point.

I set my point as understanding. I don't care about your bliss. If you care about it, good for you. But don't tell me what I care about.

Eventually you will realize that all the bliss in the world still left gaps in your understanding.

Edited May 26 by Leo Gura

[ryandesreu]

@Fredodoow There is validity to the pushback.

Who is Leo? Who is Shizen Young? What is meditation?

[UnbornTao]

13 hours ago, Salvijus said:

If the goal of your meditation is to become more aware, perceptive, insightful. Even 5 mins of self reflecting per day will give results in that direction. 

But if you desire to purify and dissolve your ego, you may have to lock yourself in isolation somewhere for longer periods to allow the agony to work itself through. 

If you want to awaken to God's love, no amount of dissosiactive type of meditation is going to work. A completly different approch is needed.

Similarly each path has a unique approch, objective and conditions for success. You can't just pile everything into one subject as if it's all the same. 

I've heard that the word "meditation" originally comes from "med-", which means to heal. Therefore, the way I think of meditation is as a healing process, generating positive states, controlling one's mind, etc; it is not about direct consciousness. That'd better be called contemplation, which is intending to discover what's true about anything, with no particular ritual or cosmology behind it. That's the distinction I like to use.

At the risk of oversimplifying:

• Pain is at the root of suffering, although the latter can more easily be seen through and to some degree, transcended
• Pleasure and pain are part of the same dynamic
• Bliss could be regarded as freedom from the pleasure-pain dynamic, so it could be a "natural state," although it is rarely experienced
• Understanding can be interchangeably used with insight, breakthrough, enlightenment and consciousness, depending on how you hold each of them

Edited May 26 by UnbornTao

[Salvijus]

54 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

I hear-tell the word meditation originally comes from med-, which means to heal. So, the way I hold it is as a healing process, not "aimed at" enlightenment or consciousness.

The word healing comes from the world "whole" I believe. "to restore wholeness". To restore wholeness could be a valid definition of enlightenment imo. Coming back to your natural state. Realizing the completeness of what you are. 

Enlightenment - the ultimate restoration to one's wholeness. Ultimate healing of one's soul. (sorry for the cosmology) 

Edited May 26 by Salvijus

[enchanted]

19 hours ago, Fredodoow said:

I would just like to push back on something I heard Leo say more and more as of late. It goes along the lines of "Meditation should be done seriously. Don't half ass it. If you're gonna do it, go all in. No point in just meditating a few minutes every day, you will just waste your time". 

This does not resonate with my personnal experience, and it goes in direct contradiction with something the great zen master Shizen Young said : there is a world of difference, a WORLD of difference, between 10 minutes of meditation a day and zero minutes of meditation a day".

Now, I'm not saying that you can get enlightened, or get any of the crazy stuff on a few minutes a day, but if it does help you process emotions, sleep better, think more clearly, discipline your mind, even just a bit, isn't that huge ?

This bugs me, because when I was starting out working out, I heard some people say stuff about running like "if you're not gonna do at least 45 minutes, it's useless". And I can tell you that's completely wrong for pretty much the same reasons. 

19 hours ago, Fredodoow said:

 

As Leo says, It's most important to do your own thinking. He literally mentions in the video that expecting spiritual teachers to be 100% right is a trap. If what he says isn't true for you, then it's not true for you. 

Edited May 26 by enchanted

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, enchanted said:

As Leo says, It's most important to do your own thinking. He literally mentions in the video that expecting spiritual teachers to be 100% right is a trap. If what he says isn't true for you, then it's not true for you. 

Good

[Ishanga]

51 minutes ago, enchanted said:

As Leo says, It's most important to do your own thinking. He literally mentions in the video that expecting spiritual teachers to be 100% right is a trap. If what he says isn't true for you, then it's not true for you. 

A Real Spiritual Teacher will not guide you via words or in what they say in relation to how You will or have to think, this is not true authentic teaching, a True teaching will lead by example, will lead by ambiance and energy in what they are doing, its like being close to a fire when cold, it warms  you up by being intouch with them, same thing here, one that is Spiritual in their True nature, by being close to them You will get some of it too, not via teachings or words being expressed, that is used to get some interest going, since we are living in an intellectual age where words have to be used for anything to be done...

[Ishanga]

2 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

I hear-tell the word meditation originally comes from med-, which means to heal. So, the way I hold it is as a healing process, not "aimed at" enlightenment or consciousness. That'd better be called contemplation, which is setting out to discover what's true about anything with no particular ritual or cosmology behind it. So, that's the distinction I like to use.

At the risk of oversimplifying:

• Pain is at the root of suffering, although the latter can more easily be stopped
• Pleasure and pain are part of the same dynamic
• Bliss could be regarded as freedom from the pleasure-pain dynamic, so could be a "natural state," although it is rarely experienced
• Understanding can be interchangeably used along with insight, breakthrough, enlightenment and consciousness, depending on context and what use you give it

Well categorized!

Pain and Pleasure are the basis of most of how we try to function in life, You eat things You like, not dislike, because there is pleasure associated with it, but we can go beyond this as Human Beings, its okay to enjoy something but not okay to make it life's mission and purpose...

Bliss is beyond this pleasure/pain equation, its knowing what You are and what the Reality is, not via intellectual understanding, but experientially...

[tuku747]

You can easily get to DMT levels of consciousness in a single second of meditation. Believing anything less is self-doubt; a self-limiting belief.

Edited May 26 by tuku747

[Yimpa]

Just now, tuku747 said:

You can easily get to DMT levels of consciousness in a single second of meditation. Believing anything less is self-doubt.

Lol

[UnbornTao]

8 hours ago, Salvijus said:

The word healing comes from the world "whole" I believe. "to restore wholeness". To restore wholeness could be a valid definition of enlightenment imo. Coming back to your natural state. Realizing the completeness of what you are. 

Enlightenment - the ultimate restoration to one's wholeness. Ultimate healing of one's soul. (sorry for the cosmology) 

I see healing as pertaining to the domain of transformation, but metaphorically, I guess you could call it that. I prefer becoming absolutely conscious.

I'd imagine that even after direct consciousness there'd be some healing to do. So, we're talking about two things, not just one.

[UnbornTao]

6 hours ago, Ishanga said:

Well categorized!

Pain and Pleasure are the basis of most of how we try to function in life, You eat things You like, not dislike, because there is pleasure associated with it, but we can go beyond this as Human Beings, its okay to enjoy something but not okay to make it life's mission and purpose...

Bliss is beyond this pleasure/pain equation, its knowing what You are and what the Reality is, not via intellectual understanding, but experientially...

Yes. Even pursuing pleasure has a component of pain behind it.

Edited May 26 by UnbornTao