The Awakening trap

[Exystem]

I found this beautiful short film and wanted to share it with you:

A naive version of a concept about awakening would precisely be that: The idea that one day, you'll find a magic ______ (fill in the blank) that will open the portal/lift the veil to a higher reality for you so you can break free/liberate yourself.

What are your thoughts on this?

[Razard86]

You don't know what's possible until you try it. Speculation is not truth, you can only discover through a sincere inquiry of your choice and method of how to prove it to yourself that it is true or not true.

Only Perfect Truth Can Find Perfect Truth. Sincerity is the key. 

[Mu_]

9 hours ago, Exystem said:

I found this beautiful short film and wanted to share it with you:

A naive version of a concept about awakening would precisely be that: The idea that one day, you'll find a magic ______ (fill in the blank) that will open the portal/lift the veil to a higher reality for you so you can break free/liberate yourself.

What are your thoughts on this?

That was a fun little watch, thanks for sharing.  I don't know if I'd say this film has anything to do with awakening, but I find it interesting that you did, its interesting how we all put our own meaning on things.

[BlessedLion]

9 hours ago, Exystem said:

I found this beautiful short film and wanted to share it with you:

A naive version of a concept about awakening would precisely be that: The idea that one day, you'll find a magic ______ (fill in the blank) that will open the portal/lift the veil to a higher reality for you so you can break free/liberate yourself.

What are your thoughts on this?

It’s not that you find the magic blank, or are lifted to a higher dimension where God lives. It’s recognizing that this very moment, these events and people are literally 100% God embodied. This is it!!! It’s more of realizing the magic is the mundane or a bringing it down rather than trying to go up

[puporing]

Is that a rhetorical question? 

[Exystem]

17 hours ago, BlessedLion said:

It’s not that you find the magic blank, or are lifted to a higher dimension where God lives. It’s recognizing that this very moment, these events and people are literally 100% God embodied. This is it!!! It’s more of realizing the magic is the mundane or a bringing it down rather than trying to go up

Spot on!

17 hours ago, Mu_ said:

That was a fun little watch, thanks for sharing.  I don't know if I'd say this film has anything to do with awakening, but I find it interesting that you did, its interesting how we all put our own meaning on things.

True, it's just a random interpretation. But I love the play with paradox and self-reference and the theme of liberation, the association to awakening was intuitive.

15 hours ago, puporing said:

Is that a rhetorical question? 

@puporing

I wanted to ask for different interpretations/associations or start a discussion about awakening traps in general. In reference to Leos new video.

This short film depicts the nature of traps perfectly in my view. If he thought it through, it would have been a different ending. He was blinded by the quick solution.

[puporing]

3 hours ago, Exystem said:

I wanted to ask for different interpretations/associations or start a discussion about awakening traps in general.

Okay, I asked that because it sounded like you already made up your mind about this before the question.

But if you're actually asking..

Not waking up is the trap since you can't fully understand/know what you're actually doing here without seeing things from the highest view possible. 

There is a higher order reality we call "Kingdom of Heaven" where you came from (and could also return to as opposed to endless incarnations here).

And I'm saying you can't fully understand what you've made (this universe) before getting yourself back there.

Edited May 24, 2024 by puporing

[Javfly33]

On 22/5/2024 at 8:28 PM, Exystem said:

I found this beautiful short film and wanted to share it with you:

A naive version of a concept about awakening would precisely be that: The idea that one day, you'll find a magic ______ (fill in the blank) that will open the portal/lift the veil to a higher reality for you so you can break free/liberate yourself.

What are your thoughts on this?

That Awakening is Absolutely that. 😃

[Exystem]

21 hours ago, puporing said:

Not waking up is the trap

True haha

You believe that there is an alternative to endless reincarnation? If it could be reached, wouldn't it have been already during the infinitely long past? And who says/believes you were born in the first place?

I once had a mescaline trip and realized after "attaining nirvana" as buddha I had nothing better to do than imagining the next better illusion. It was like "game over" and you're like "damn I just even started the game".

 

14 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

That Awakening is Absolutely that. 😃

Oh yeah of course it can look like that! It probably even will. But if you look for that, you're screwed

[Javfly33]

3 minutes ago, Exystem said:

 

Oh yeah of course it can look like that! It probably even will. But if you look for that, you're screwed

I guess, how can someone look for something that does not know what it is 

[Exystem]

1 minute ago, Javfly33 said:

I guess, how can someone look for something that does not know what it is 

Yeah it's funny how we seek for that which "watches" us how we seek for that which "watches" us.

[puporing]

8 hours ago, Exystem said:

You believe that there is an alternative to endless reincarnation? If it could be reached, wouldn't it have been already during the infinitely long past? And who says/believes you were born in the first place?

There is and I'm already there. 

No because your ego mind keeps you coming back here because it's like a program/spell you put on yourself to do so when you left Heaven, it's very hard to get out of this because this "mind program" was set up in such a way so that you do not want to get out, that there seem to be something worth doing or having here besides awakening back to your original Self. Think of top 3 things you like about this place and those are most likely the stuff from the ego mind. Yes I know birth and death are illusory but you're still doing it regardless of it being illusory, you'd just be what I call "half awake". Whereas I don't plan to come back here after this life time, unless I have to to teach or heal again like this lifetime. Your original Self has little to no attraction to this universe other than to heal it.

Also the Ego mind is always mirrored by other ego minds (like just about everyone here) so it's like a self-reinforcing mind. That's why it's like a trap. Because hardly anyone here got out of it, the one(s) who did are going to be in extreme minority and make no sense to most people.

8 hours ago, Exystem said:

I once had a mescaline trip and realized after "attaining nirvana" as buddha I had nothing better to do than imagining the next better illusion. It was like "game over" and you're like "damn I just even started the game".

So that's what I consider incomplete awakening, where your Ego mind is still intact and you forgot all about such a thing as Heaven. I mean I wouldn't mind this place if it was actually like the Kingdom, but it really isn't and the opposite of it for the forseeable future. That said I still plan to stick around to teach for as long as I can/have the means to.

Edited May 25, 2024 by puporing

[Exystem]

On 25.5.2024 at 7:27 AM, puporing said:

Whereas I don't plan to come back here after this life time, unless I have to to teach or heal again like this lifetime. Your original Self has little to no attraction to this universe other than to heal it.

 

@puporing

I don't want to dismiss what you are saying, I would agree on some stuff - but from my understanding it seems strange to "(not) plan about coming back", to "be required to teach/heal", to "have attraction to this universe". There is a lot of duality expressed in these words.

On 25.5.2024 at 7:27 AM, puporing said:

I mean I wouldn't mind this place if it was actually like the Kingdom, but it really isn't and the opposite of it for the forseeable future.

Leo once said something around "If you can't see god in the shit in your toilet you ain't awake" - I would totally agree. This dream is getting spiced up, but no worrries. When there is literally no death, mind can get pretty twisted and sarcastic.

 

I don't know whether I am too critical here but to be honest it seems as if you were creating a story around a messiah awakening or something like that. There are tons of people claiming to be the second coming of christ, it's almost always all words but not walking the talk. How many guys I have heard talking about their last reincarnation being jesus buddha or whatever, almost never someone claimed to have been a bug or a farmer. It's clear to me that it is all a story, I don't feel the urge to compare anymore. But if you honestly believe in yourself to be who you claim, you gotta be convincing without words. I wish you the best for it - go for it, we need jesus's today!

[puporing]

@Exystem I know what I sound like to most people so it's what it is. Nobody's going to understand me until they're actually close, which will be very rare (which I wish it wasn't the case).

I don't need to convince you you said you were genuinely asking a question so I responded. 

8 hours ago, Exystem said:

Leo once said something around "If you can't see god in the shit in your toilet you ain't awake" - I would totally agree. This dream is getting spiced up, but no worrries. When there is literally no death, mind can get pretty twisted and sarcastic.

That's Leo's perspective that you are now adopting. His perspective is much more appealing than mine to the masses. If you honestly feel like shit in the toilet makes you love this place then so be it, nothing I can do about that. "Being attracted to shit" is prob one of the top reasons most humans aren't even a bit awake. And being easy to agree to does not negate that I found higher awakening.

Edited June 1, 2024 by puporing

[Exystem]

@puporing

To me it has become obvious that the idea of heaven I once had, a place without shit, is some kind of a hedonistic trap. It just wears off after some time. Maybe you can enjoy it for a billion years, but someday questions arise like "What is it like to eat tasteless bread instead of kaviar and cake 24/7?", "I can't die so am I able to convince me about a story about death?"
I know this is a very humanoid perspective - but see, the idea that shit is bad is also completely human. You eat nothing but shit your whole life, it just transforms into apples and beans after a year or some.

It is not about being attracted to shit but realising that when you have no shit around you, everything is platin and saphirs, one day you will see the one as gold and the other as shit. Or not. But it's just a matter of how high the amplitude of your apparent mood changes get. You may enjoy bliss 24/7 for some time, but after a billion years you may see the greater joy in the challenge of tricking you into a perspective where it is not common, since literally nothing bad can really happen to you, it's all just fantasy. So I am not totally disagreeing with you. It's just that man always wants what is not. The grass on the other side of the river is always greener. And when guys like you come around and talk about heaven which is something that can be reached you may create spiritual fantasies for people who want to get rid of their shit without even knowing why it is there in the first place. Appreciate the shit! That's what I want to share, it's not a bug, it's a feature. Don't get identified/addicted to it but see the goldenness in it.

The other way to express it is this:
If there was something existentially important to reach, don't you think it would have been reached already? Since there is literally an infinite past. Of course, it's only NOW, but either it is like an alarm clock which starts and ends preprogrammed for you to be able to sleep and then awake at time or it is already done like jesus said on the cross. The idea that one has the responsibility to fullfill an existential need is grandiose, the idea that you could reach in time what is outside of it, to be required to arrange the relative to enter the absolute. What if there are no prerequisitions? If this is it - exactly as it is. How could it be another way than the way it is? There are no others who need your help in that sense. Helping is fine, no question. But it happens naturally, not beacause anything is fundamentally dependent on your help.

[puporing]

@Exystem Thank you I appreciate you trying to share your perspective. 

I have tried very hard. The thing is it's not something I can just "turn off" like you might think I can. Once I reached this current state I can't really "go back" if that makes any sense. And I think I never felt like I could fit in anywhere since growing up despite the "search". I could not find anyone similar to me and that's just to let you know it wasn't something I can just "turn off". I don't have a problem with the "material stuff", it's about people's consciousness here, because I am basically alone here. Like imagine one day you turned into a unicorn that nobody here can understand but not a kind of unicorn people can visually identify.

And even arriving here I don't know if I really had much of a choice. I think I was already quite close to it when I incarnated here, so I kept searching teacher after teacher and exhausted them all. I struggled with chronic depression since my late teens and nothing in the end could really help me except reaching this place. I wish it wasn't the case that I became more or less a "loner".

Anyway I don't like making it about "me", but I don't have many options. 

So from my state I'd rather find "like-minded" folks. I mean I already understand most of the "other perspectives". It's like say you have a phd in mathematics, and now you're talking to people from grade school to high school to post secondary about math, okay you might learn some "new perspective", but you already went through those before and you are mostly a teacher when you talk to these people about math, does that make more sense?

To "heal or to teach" isn't from a self aggrandizing place, it is because we are all connected that compels me to. Your higher mind is suffering from the lack of consciousness in this world. And well there's only so much I can do.. generally it requires lots of patience. So if I know I am your true/original Self (and if that's what someone is interested in uncovering), and you don't remember it, what else am I to do but to try and tell you about this?

No this state somehow is extremely narrow path, but ofc there have been "others" who've reached it, just very uncommon it seems. But most of Jesus' disciples apparently couldn't understand him the first round.. so I don't think I'll have a much better luck either.

I'm just trying to point out that while one can't "force an awakening" on others, the same is true that one can't force someone to "go backwards"..

So ofc I'm aware if people aren't receptive to me I would adjust accordingly. But there might be a few "unicorns" who have some opening..

Edited June 2, 2024 by puporing

[Breakingthewall]

On 25/5/2024 at 0:19 AM, Exystem said:

You believe that there is an alternative to endless reincarnation?

This question has a problem, and that is that it interprets (as is inevitable) infinity as a straight temporal line. In the absence of limits, endless reincarnation has already occurred infinitely many times, which is equivalent to saying that it will occur infinitely many times, or that it is occurring now infinitely many times, or that it has never occurred. 

once your current pattern of existence disappears, you will never have existed. Does the 10-year-old boy that you were exist now? Only your essential nature exists and it will always be that way, the forms will always be the current form, and another will never have existed or will exist, or will have existed and will exist infinitely. It is the same, the mind cannot grasp it because it works in 3d, not in infinite d.

[Breakingthewall]

6 hours ago, puporing said:

it's about people's consciousness here, because I am basically alone here

Why do you need that other people have the same understanding that you have about life to stablish true relationship with them? Is not enough if they are essentially true? Imagine that you have a dog and you love it and it loves you. Maybe you could do big sacrifices to help that dog, maybe the dog could give it's life to protect you. Maybe it's a deep understanding between you and the dog, because you share the same essential nature. No more is needed, no talk or share opinions 

[Exystem]

9 hours ago, puporing said:

Thank you I appreciate you trying to share your perspective. 

@puporing

Same here! Thanks for your detailed answer, I enjoy the conversation, you are one of the guys who doesn't just reply with one-liners but goes in depth, awesome!

9 hours ago, puporing said:

Once I reached this current state I can't really "go back" if that makes any sense.

Of course! I get you, once the spell is broken, once the gig is up, once the punchline is undestood - there is no turning back.

 

9 hours ago, puporing said:

It's like say you have a phd in mathematics, and now you're talking to people from grade school to high school to post secondary about math, okay you might learn some "new perspective", but you already went through those before and you are mostly a teacher when you talk to these people about math, does that make more sense?

You explain it really well!

As if you've seen
It's all a dream
But people just keep constantly
Speaking about reality.
Like "this is true and that is not"
And "this is you and that is god"
While all that's heard is "blablabla"
But no one hears the great "Tadaaa!!!"

9 hours ago, puporing said:

Your higher mind is suffering from the lack of consciousness in this world. 

That's where we might differ, but I think I get you.

Isn't that love expressing? Isn't it kind of great to feel that compassion, that heart bursting, that aliveness in the cheerful happiness but also in the tearful sadness about what god can do unto itself? It's intense, no question, but paradise is meant to be intense isn't it? A great fun park with lots of horrorshows and hall of mirrors.

9 hours ago, puporing said:

So if I know I am your true/original Self (and if that's what someone is interested in uncovering), and you don't remember it, what else am I to do but to try and tell you about this?

Yeah that's a great life purpose, go for it! I don't want to discourage you, on the contrary! Go all in bro <3 don't let stories distract you. There's an audience if you have something to say, for sure.

9 hours ago, puporing said:

No this state somehow is extremely narrow path, but ofc there have been "others" who've reached it, just very uncommon it seems. But most of Jesus' disciples apparently couldn't understand him the first round.. so I don't think I'll have a much better luck either.

So here there may be an interesting twist in your story. There is this guy called Emerson, he's the clearest speaker I've ever encountered, outreaching every teacher and non duality speaker by far! It's the stop sign on your path, the lucid part of your dream, a 5-meo DMT trip impersonated. I don't want to glorify him but really stress it out. People are dropping like leaves in autumn. He "helped" hundreds if not thousands of people seeing through it, people seeking for 40+ years sometimes. Watch one of his one-on-ones for example, this clarity is just BOOM!!! The reason I tell you is not for you to get something new/else whatever, you may be awake as fuck so there may not be any need for clarification. The reason is that if you feel lonely, contact him and just befriend with him, he's a really nice guy and has no need to play authoriy whatsoever, he's gonna be like a friend. And he knows lots (!) of lots of people who now are clear about heaven/paradise, I guess there is a whole community of people who may be as clear as you. You may find others who you completely resonate with. I hope you can find connection <3

And he might be a great inspiration for your style of expression about paradise/god, too.

 

[Exystem]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

This question has a problem, and that is that it interprets (as is inevitable) infinity as a straight temporal line. In the absence of limits, endless reincarnation has already occurred infinitely many times, which is equivalent to saying that it will occur infinitely many times, or that it is occurring now infinitely many times, or that it has never occurred. 

@Breakingthewall

You're absolutely right. Of course with language it's difficult to express infinity so I take these shaky roads. What I wanted to stress out is that every path, everything that takes time like techniques or whatever is just a future projection about what already is. That which is absolute, which is unchanging, cannot ever be reached. It's a story. If it could be reached (in time), the framework of time is implicitely assumed. If we take that assumption of a future reaching, we must take the past for real too. If that is the case, there is an infinite past. If something existentially important could be reached, wouldn't an infinite past be enough to have reached it already? The line of reasoning should just point out that every story about reaching it is nothing but a story. There's literally nothing happening, like in a dream, stuff changes constantly but every past and future is a story, real for a moment and unreal for eternity.

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

once your current pattern of existence disappears, you will never have existed. Does the 10-year-old boy that you were exist now? Only your essential nature exists and it will always be that way, the forms will always be the current form, and another will never have existed or will exist, or will have existed and will exist infinitely. It is the same, the mind cannot grasp it because it works in 3d, not in infinite d.

Yes! I just try to pick up the words and concepts of my opposite to dispel and deconstruct them on a logical basis - that's my style. But I agree with you, you did the same with me here haha