Why do I want to use high dosage of Pychedelics all the time, how can I move on?

[James123]

@LSD-Rumi@Javfly33 Most likely, if nothing happens, the reason of it is they know that any experience is ego and they do not react any feelings, emotions or experience, only that's why. Not because of they are in love always. 

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

 

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

 

[Javfly33]

59 minutes ago, James123 said:

@LSD-Rumi@Javfly33  the reason of it is they know that any experience is ego and they do not react any feelings, emotions or experience

right , when one is stablished in ones real self, everything else becomes an appearance. 

[James123]

2 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

right , when one is stablished in ones real self, everything else becomes an appearance. 

Definitely 💯 

[Davino]

On 23/5/2024 at 5:20 PM, Water by the River said:

Concerning the last subtle ego/separate-self-clouds/lenses/filters: One just doesn't see them, since there is way to little time in the psychedelic states to transcend these filters/lenses, and normally way to little training in transcending these filters/lenses/clouds done before.

Yeah, that is a legit criticism. I'm not for the one or the other debate, I'm here for both. According to Ken Wilber individuals who do both end up being more advanced than those who do just psychedelics or just meditation, which makes total sense to me.

On 23/5/2024 at 5:20 PM, Water by the River said:

One looks THROUGH THEM, and doesn't even notice they are there. And then interprets the infinite nondual experience through them.

But there's the same problem with meditation see? even more as most of the practice one is totally lost in many lens and doesn't even know what is searching for, only heresay without any direct experience. I like more this conversation because I'm now seeing more clearly the limitations of both tools.

On 23/5/2024 at 5:20 PM, Water by the River said:

The infinite and "godly" states of consciousness are nothing but a big trap that parade "in front" of your Real Eternal Being. And btw., "classic" full Enlightenment is infinite, nondual and boundless, and mere appearance/imagined. And impersonal. And the "godly", ET or "whatever" states in that case parade "in" it, "in front" of it. 

And its YOU by the way. Just the True You. Not the god-state+reamaining filters/lenses.

When filters/lenses/clouds/ego are switched off, isn't it logical that Awakening/boundless/nondual/mere apperance states just continues (or is no longer covered by duality), making the eternal always here "suchness" of True being available all the time.

Just throw the frog in the mixer and see what remains. What remains is eternal. The rest is just illusion, parading in front of your eternal Being. Ranging from rat to crocodile to human to God to ET.

I'm not here to grapple about metaphysics with you but about investigating the actual limits of psychedelics and meditation/yoga.

What is in your opinion the limitations of meditation practices? In what way they present traps for Ultimate Truth? How can psychedelics become a helpful in that sense?

In the same way, how can meditation be used to compensate the psychedelic downsides?

[LSD-Rumi]

5 hours ago, James123 said:

@LSD-Rumi@Javfly33 Most likely, if nothing happens, the reason of it is they know that any experience is ego and they do not react any feelings, emotions or experience, only that's why. Not because of they are in love always. 

The thing is Psychedelics is not just enlightenment. The visions alone are beyond anything.

After watching Leo's poetry video, I cannot believe that was accessible to humans without some mind altering material.

 

[Water by the River]

29 minutes ago, Davino said:

Yeah, that is a legit criticism. I'm not for the one or the other debate, I'm here for both. According to Ken Wilber individuals who do both end up being more advanced than those who do just psychedelics or just meditation, which makes total sense to me.

I also believe using both is best and most efficient.

29 minutes ago, Davino said:

But there's the same problem with meditation see? even more as most of the practice one is totally lost in many lens and doesn't even know what is searching for, only heresay without any direct experience. I like more this conversation because I'm now seeing more clearly the limitations of both tools.

At the final stages of meditation, one can dissolve these last and very subtle lenses.

When taking for example the Mahamudra-system, which I consider as the most sophisticated system on the planet (together with Dzogchen), the Yoga of One Taste (advanced practice, 3rd stage in Mahamudra system) makes the visual field boundless, infinite and mere appearance/lucid. Basically the effect that many psychedelics have. And no, that is not yet Enlightenment. 

https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=yoga of one taste&author=Water by the River

The final lenses of deception/illusion are not yet dissolved at stage 3. But here we are already on very trippy terrain, visual field nondual, boundless and infinite and mere appearance.

And now comes the kicker: stage 4, Nonmeditation Yoga automizes the techniques done at stage 3 in such a way that even the meditator can be dissolved. There is no longer a separate-anything doing anything, the meditation does itself. Awakening, or Awakened Awareness (nondual, boundless, infinite, groundless, and impersonal, or not only personal), does the meditation. As long as someone does the meditation, the illusion with the dream-character is still well and alive, even if its nondual and what not. A nondual dream.

https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=Nonmeditation Yoga&author=Water by the River

What happens at stage 4 Nonmeditation Yoga can no longer be fully described. But it can be understood what happens or happened once it happens.

And it takes a loooong time at stage 4 Nonmeditation Yoga, at least for most, until crossing over to Enlightenment happens. No other. No you. Just Infinite Consciousness/Reality, an Infinite Ocean of Awareness, its essence forever unchanged. Eternal. Always having been the case. The former separate-self just an illusion. And until one gets the hundreds or thousands of hours (if one is not a prodigy) in these states to make it to the big bang, if one tries to do that with psychedelics, one has ones brain fried long before. And a God-complex on top if one doesn't start on the humble side from the beginning (which few do), since the ego projects itself already busily on the nondual infinite field, see stage 3. And if one has bad luck, ET comes along and gives a seductive smile... But that is another topic.

 

And the limitations/problems of meditation practice:

• Getting to Nonduality, stage 3. Takes a looong time, and many things can be implemented incorrectly. Then, meditation practice NEVER leads to Nonduality,boundlessness-infnite and mere appearance. That happens to 98%+ of meditators, because the meditation techniques used are so inefficient that multiple thousand of hours of hardcore head-against-the-wall meditation would be needed... Few are made for that. Mahamudra on the other side can be used efficiently in daily life if done correctly.
• Without Mahamudra Pointing out the Great Way style I would have gotten nowhere, and even with that I read the book 15 times over 10 years to get it.
• To get a nondual state take enough shrooms et voila. To experience Infinity take some 5-MeO et voila. It prooves that its real. Most meditators without psychedelics give up before that. One knows if one does something correct with meditation if these psychedelic-induced awakenings happen from meditation.

Hope I have answered all your questions.

Selling Water by the River

Edited May 24 by Water by the River

[Davino]

On 22/5/2024 at 0:32 PM, Leo Gura said:

They don't obscure anything

@Leo Gura I've really contemplated it through and it feels intuitively wrong. That's not how reality works in my experience, every cut into infinity must present its lights and shadows. I'm sure there are Infinite states of consciousness that are totally innaccessible through Psychedelics, maybe entheogens can't trigger some receptors, or another unknown methodology is necessary like DNA modification or who knows what, hope you get the metapoint beyond the examples. What I'm trying to say is that Psychedelics surely present access to many infinite and Godly states but not to All infinite and Godly states, making that assumptions is what feels intuitively wrong. If someone wants to become as conscious, as infinite and as Godly as existentially possible I cannot assume that Psychedelics will grant me access to all such states and that most certainly other methodologies can present new infinite and unique states, totally orthogonal and alien to those generated by Psychedelics. In my opinion, this is a more epistemically secure position to work from a priori.

On 22/5/2024 at 0:32 PM, Leo Gura said:

Psychedelics reveal many hidden facets of consciousness, but there's no telling which ones you might get fixated on.

So when exploring consciousness I should be open-minded regarding all facets that are presented to me and make sure to get the fundamentals of each one. Instead of using psychedelics as a depth-first search for those facets that I'm biased towards, they should be used to look even with greater emphasis to those places where I don't wanna look. Yes, I think I've fallen into that trap myself. I sometimes feel consciousness is like a cheese, and then we make little holes while exploring it, psychedelics being this digging machine I now can see how they might be used to explore those channels that I'm biased towards and get a skewed perspective of the whole cheese.

On 22/5/2024 at 0:32 PM, Leo Gura said:

If you only use a few different psychedelics then that's like looking at consciousness through one lens, so that can become limiting.

How important do you think trying a wide variety of psychedelics is? I get it's important but I would like to get a bit more on this. Because honestly I loved to try and explore different substances but since I've discovered the 5meos I've been quite disillusioned with other psychedelics all together. Maybe I should get back with exploring, do you think you could share with us a more in depth list of research chemicals that you have found useful? I know you have done a lot of experimentation on your side and you could save me years of trial and error. I'll reinvent the wheel anyway but hey I wanted to give it a shoot in case it never crossed your mind. I'm sure you could add a lot of value to the Psychonaut endeavour with such list.

On 22/5/2024 at 0:32 PM, Leo Gura said:

The traps related to using psychedelics to make sense of reality will mostly be in how you interpret or make sense of the experiences and what you tell yourself about them. So you have to be careful about your interpretations and also about spinning spiritual fantasies in your mind. During and after a psychedelic experience your mind will be tempted to spin up some fantasies about it.

You have to be careful not to add a bunch of human stuff on top of your raw experiences.

So is an excessive desire to make sense of psychedelic experiences a trap?

Maybe it's better to consciously feel and be with the experience, before rushing into cartographic activity.

On 22/5/2024 at 0:32 PM, Leo Gura said:

The passion that psychedelics bring can make you forget about epistemic rigor, but it's as important as ever.

Mmm, it's true that the passion psychedelics experiences and insights have, can actually bypass some epistemic filters, the beauty and profundity can be mesmerizing and that can fool me. This is advanced, never thought about it. Usually I'm just delighted, but now I'll take this into consideration without losing my ability to lose myself in that passion. I'll work on striking that balance.

On 22/5/2024 at 0:32 PM, Leo Gura said:

Just because you had an experience of God does not mean you understand the full picture. Almost certainly you don't.

I'm a neophyte in God-Realization.

[Davino]

1 hour ago, Water by the River said:

Hope I have answered all your questions.

@Water by the River Thanks for taking the time to answer. I'll contemplate what you've said on my own. You've raised good points.

 

In general, if I don't answer to a well-thought post that you send to me, it's probably because I'm thinking about it before answering.

Edited May 24 by Davino

[Yimpa]

I’ve taken a 9 month break from psychedelics and am ready to start experimenting with them again tomorrow. Let’s see what happens! 

[James123]

51 minutes ago, LSD-Rumi said:

After watching Leo's poetry video, I cannot believe that was accessible to humans without some mind altering material.

What is not accessible? 

[LSD-Rumi]

28 minutes ago, James123 said:

What is not accessible? 

Did you watch the video? Basically everything in it.

[James123]

1 minute ago, LSD-Rumi said:

Did you watch the video? Basically everything in it.

No I did not. Can you please share it? 

[LSD-Rumi]

@James123 The most mind blowing video yet.

 

[LSD-Rumi]

@Water by the River could you share the name of this Mahamudra book?is it related to Yoga?

[BlessedLion]

Enlightenment in the zen and Ralston sense is just figuring out that you are the awareness or nothingness in which reality unfolds. Psychedelics help you go more into the Godmind and Oneness aspect of reality which is more profound. 
 

Enlightenment is akin to figuring out how a car works (its running on wheels) but there’s still so much about the car to understand. 

[integration journey]

@Javfly33 what kind of yoga do you practice? Kriya yoga? 

[BlessedLion]

Must be Hatha 

[Water by the River]

8 hours ago, LSD-Rumi said:

could you share the name of this Mahamudra book?

Pointing out the Great Way, Daniel Brown.

Brown was a unique person. Both a meditation master of 5 decades and a Harvard Psychologist PH.d.. Towards the end of his life he perceived permission by Menri Trizin to translate the secret und alltime favourites of TIbetan Buddhism (including books on Dzogchen, Tummo/Inner Fire both alone/couple, Tögal, Dark Retreat and so on).

It is not Yoga in the classic sense the word is normally used (westernized Indian Yoga). Mahamudra has 4 main stages (Yogas), highly detailed meditation instructions.

https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=Pointing out the Great Way&author=Water by the River

 

[Javfly33]

11 hours ago, Davino said:

I'm not here to grapple about metaphysics with you but about investigating the actual limits of psychedelics and meditation/yoga.

I think the limits are they are tools, so they can only prepare the 'waters' so to speak.

Since is You who gets enlightened, and not the mind or the body, there is absolutely nothing in reality that can produce enlightment, no yoga psychedelic reiki shaktipat or whatever can produce enlighment because a tool is just a tool. 

6 hours ago, BlessedLion said:

Enlightenment in the zen and Ralston sense is just figuring out that you are the awareness or nothingness in which reality unfolds. Psychedelics help you go more into the Godmind and Oneness aspect of reality which is more profound. 
 

Enlightenment is akin to figuring out how a car works (its running on wheels) but there’s still so much about the car to understand. 

Enlightment in the zen and Ralston sense is definetely 'not figuring it out'. Is directly grasping something about You. 

 Psychedelics, meditation, yoga, etc... do not guarantee enlightement. You can be tripping or doing meditation retreats for 20 years and do not get enlightement in the process.

You might have 100s of Godmind and Oneness experiences but that won´t liberate you. Which is what the whole path is about. Not accumulating trips in the amusement park.

However psychedelics and spiritual practices have their benefits even if there is no realization of self. 

5 hours ago, integration journey said:

@Javfly33 what kind of yoga do you practice? Kriya yoga? 

Angamardana (Hatha Yoga) and Shamavhi mahamudra kriya (energy process-initiation from guru). 

Edited May 25 by Javfly33

[Luminescence]

Hey brother, been there and I would keep going but in life I have to be grounded and play the game. I'd rather stay in infinite love like you...

If you can, try to balance it out. Use the sacred medicines but also keep a stable and grounded life. It's all a balancing act on the razors edge. 

It's the the most amazing state to be in, infinite love... but you must cultivate it to some degree in your baseline state, trust me it's possible to have it in the background of your day to day life and abide in grace. When you cultivate it then also when you decide to trip again you'll intensify it even more if you know what I mean. 

Blessings to you~