is music relative or objective

[OBEler]

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

@OBEler

   How am I answering this myself that there's no art seen here? Why are you making it like my answer is it's only animal abuse and hard training when I said the animal is capable of ART by it's behaviors, like the bird constructing a hut and nest for it's mate, or the octopus using shells and mimicking it's surroundings, or the fish using a shell, or the elephant using a paint brush to paint a tree? Even a Chimpanzee uses branches and stones is part of ART. Visual capacity, trunk control(limb control in other animals/humans/aliens) and internalizations and mental representations and sense making apparatuses in our minds, consciousness, and external factors have EVERYTHING to do with ART!

   YES! You are an artist if you draw lines on a number picture, draw using pencils or pens or charcoal on a canvas or other surface mediums. At least when you demonstrate the externalities of ART like marking onto parts of an environment. And when you have consciousness of a human, animal, alien or any sentient life YOU ARE AN ARTIST!

   Spare me the moral outrage of an elephant being forced to draw this shit for tourists to get rewards. I get and understand that I won't forget that, and I will NEVER FORGET the sacrifices of other artists and the Mangakas that draw beautifully forcing themselves in minimum wages just top draw amazing artwork that FEELS AUTHENTIC! Of course ART will have some sacrifices and sufferings to making ART! I suffer making my own ART having to deal with my health and mental problems trying to draw my own ART! Do you think the birds and the bees and the Elephant and the octopus wants to deal with all that ART to survive and maintain their lives in this world?!

   Everything based on developmental factors, ART has internal and external factors, is systemic and based on the Spiral Dynamics stages of development, moral and cognitive development, psychology, society, cultural programing, information ecology, one's ideological beliefs indoctrinated. 

So according to your definition, a spider spinning a web is also doing art?Ok then when a dog shits on the ground it must also doing art, look at the perfect form of shit it creates.

You really misunderstood survival strategies for art. Birds build nests not because it looks beautiful but for survival. It's not art, it's practically just a tool to survive.

Edited May 23 by OBEler

[Reciprocality]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

7 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Video on art plz? Especially explain how modern art works 🤔

Contemplate it for yourselves.

Less yapping, more contemplation.

Creativity and art is conditioned on a state of mind which is disconnected not only from literal thinking but from the purpose of literal thinking.

If when up in the airplane you look out the window and see clouds stretching to the horizon you imagine that they will stretch over the whole of the earth and the earth itself this would be an example of literal thinking. Why would your mind inform you of the earth this way in this moment? My answer is that if you first generalise from that occurrence and then imagine that nothing pertaining to that generality ever happened then you literally could not survive or relate to the world in any way. My answer to my question is that it instantiates general purposivity or teleology.

If instead you imagine some of the many weird shapes clouds could take you are to his extent disconnected from reality and ends, this is fantastical creativity.

And then there is art, art is a syntheses of both forms of thinking, art is analogy via depiction, if when looking at the cloudy horizon you imagine something entirely different from clouds which non the less relate to these clouds in a surprising way and have the skills to perfect the depiction of that relationship then you have real art. 

An astute art critic can intuit and explicate that relationship and show us whether the artwork succeeded or failed.

[Danioover9000]

@zazen

10 hours ago, zazen said:

@Danioover9000 I get you. It depends on forum users definition of art not falling completely into the human domain.

Within the purely human domain art can be de-linked from beauty. Human art is more about expression and imagination which take a subject to create - and that art doesn’t necessarily have to be beautiful but can be social commentary or a form of protest.

In Oshos book Creativity he says even a smile to a stranger passing by or sweeping the streets clean can both be seen as creative acts in the wider sense of the word - both create a better world.

Similarly nature is and can be art even if it lacks intent, in the sense that it provides the aesthetic value of beauty.

Human made art evokes an emotional response as does nature evoke an emotional response of some intrinsic beauty that exists. 

Beauty can be expressed through natural instinct or nurtured through human intention.

   Yes.

[Danioover9000]

@OBEler

10 hours ago, OBEler said:

So according to your definition, a spider spinning a web is also doing art?Ok then when a dog shits on the ground it must also doing art, look at the perfect form of shit it creates.

You really misunderstood survival strategies for art. Birds build nests not because it looks beautiful but for survival. It's not art, it's practically just a tool to survive.

   ok.

[Miguel1]

As a dancer with a background in hip-hop, I must say that there are really high-quality hip-hop music.

And hip-hop music, especially New Style, pushes my body and dancing in a way classical music probably will never come close to. Perhaps I just haven't listened to enough classical music. But I don't think that's the case.

All that being said, there is music that combines classical music with hip-hop 
 

 

[Sucuk Ekmek]

On 19.05.2024 at 9:52 PM, Majed said:

if music is subjective than why is classical music better than hip hop for example ? and if you say hip hop is better well then you're not serious.

It takes an effort to grow and cultivate a dedicated generation. Mozart worked for prince-archbishop of Salzburg and his company. He had to deal with their epistemical background which includes today what we call whole western canon. They had to recieve an exceptional education.

Your nation wide known artist works for the majority.

It's okay for their audience to listen a music from an ass of a telephone. Meanwhile you have to dress your ass for the classical music experience.

This doesn't mean one is better, it's just the human we create.

[Danioover9000]

   IMO the greatest album ever since 2009:

interesting take from a pseudo Pewdipie STAN:

 

[zazen]

Hypnotic, mystical, otherworldly aesthetic, ancient yet somehow modern.

 

Edited May 24 by zazen

[ryandesreu]

On 5/21/2024 at 7:10 AM, Leo Gura said:

What music do crocodiles like?

Death!

[Applegarden8]

Both

[Schizophonia]

Music is an another echo chamber. 

[QandC]

According to Andrew Neimann it's objective: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSDmo-gJ8XY

 

[Danioover9000]

@Schizophonia

On 2024-05-31 at 0:12 PM, Schizophonia said:

Music is an another echo chamber. 

   Grammar errors is it's own artform I guess.

[Danioover9000]

@QandC

On 2024-05-31 at 7:13 PM, QandC said:

According to Andrew Neimann it's objective: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSDmo-gJ8XY

 

   And he's mostly right, within his context, within drumming there are objective standards there for higher competitive output.

   P.S. Love that scene, and many can relate to that scene, being dissed low key because what you're good at isn't so popular, but that family over praising something the other kids do because that's so popular to them.

[Schizophonia]

11 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Schizophonia

   Grammar errors is it's own artform I guess.

?

[Danioover9000]

@Schizophonia

7 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

?

'an another'. Why the 'an another' when you could've just said 'another'?

[Schizophonia]

32 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Schizophonia

'an another'. Why the 'an another' when you could've just said 'another'?

That's true, sorry mistress 👉👈

English isn't my natal langue, so i sometime make mistakes, yes.

Edited June 6 by Schizophonia

[Danioover9000]

@Schizophonia

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

That's true, sorry mistress 👉👈

English isn't my natal langue, so i sometime make mistakes, yes.

   You are pardoned for calling me mistress.😊

[Schizophonia]

31 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Schizophonia

   You are pardoned for calling me mistress.😊

Ahah, again someone with a questionable kink 👀

Edited June 6 by Schizophonia