is music relative or objective

[Majed]

if music is subjective than why is classical music better than hip hop for example ? and if you say hip hop is better well then you're not serious.

[Yimpa]

They’re both great

 

[bebotalk]

Art is subjective.

Art is just expression. so what constitutes that expression is always relative. 

People have been conditioned to view classical music as the "height" of music. Yes, many classical pieces are complexly written and performed. That doesn't mean they're inherently better. Rock music can be as complex. As can rap. 

I believe part of the disdain for rap is racism. Yes, some rap contains darker or less tasteful imagery such as gang violence. Some genres of rock music do also, or at least don't always have wholesome themes. 

[Carl-Richard]

32 minutes ago, Majed said:

why is classical music better than hip hop for example ?

Yeah, why?

[Nemra]

@Majed 

I've noticed that classical music culture has a toxic aspect: feeling superior to other kinds of music.

[Nilsi]

36 minutes ago, Majed said:

if music is subjective than why is classical music better than hip hop for example ? and if you say hip hop is better well then you're not serious.

So you're bumping Mozart's "The Magic Flute" when you get the aux at a house party, is that what you're telling me?

[Nilsi]

44 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

They’re both great

 

This gives me the ick and is the musical equivalent of people praising vegan food for tasting "just like meat."

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Majed said:

why is classical music better than hip hop for example?

It ain't.

Not that I care for hip hop.

Edited May 19 by Leo Gura

[Majed]

@Leo Gura i mean cmon let's be serious, not everything is relative there are hierarchies: in art, in cuisines, in music...

wouldn't you say that a well prepared meal is better than a piece of shit to eat. if you say shit is better then you're just dishonest. well similarly 

what's better bach or 2 pac 

 

[Nilsi]

8 minutes ago, Majed said:

@Leo Gura i mean cmon let's be serious, not everything is relative there are hierarchies: in art, in cuisines, in music...

wouldn't you say that a well prepared meal is better than a piece of shit to eat. if you say shit is better then you're just dishonest. well similarly 

what's better bach or 2 pac 

 

Cute girl at a houseparty: *hands OP the aux* "can you put on some good music?" 👉👈

OP: "sure, uh, what kind of music do you guys like?"

Cute girl: "anything. just put on something we can have a good time to" 😏

OP: "well, uhm, ok, I guess... let me think... snap... ahh, I guess I got something"

The speakers: *Goldbach Variations play*

Edited May 19 by Nilsi

[Princess Arabia]

2 hours ago, Yimpa said:

They’re both great

 

I enjoyed that.

[Pox]

55 minutes ago, Majed said:

@Leo Gura i mean cmon let's be serious, not everything is relative there are hierarchies: in art, in cuisines, in music...

wouldn't you say that a well prepared meal is better than a piece of shit to eat. if you say shit is better then you're just dishonest. well similarly 

what's better bach or 2 pac 

 

Bias

[Agrande]

Both. Music just is. 
the way music is perceived: subjective

the way music is formed and composed: objective 

[Pox]

10 minutes ago, Agrande said:

Both. Music just is. 
the way music is perceived: subjective

the way music is formed and composed: objective 

Is what you perceive to be objective objective?

[Leo Gura]

There is objectively bad music in the sense that it is poorly made.

For example, bad singing is very obvious regardless of what is being sung. Here you have to distinguish between structure vs content. 

Edited May 19 by Leo Gura

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Majed said:

@Leo Gura i mean cmon let's be serious, not everything is relative there are hierarchies: in art, in cuisines, in music...

wouldn't you say that a well prepared meal is better than a piece of shit to eat. if you say shit is better then you're just dishonest. well similarly 

what's better bach or 2 pac 

But why? What would be an objective standard for rating music?

[Nilsi]

54 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There is objectively bad music in the sense that it is poorly made.

For example, bad singing is very obvious regardless of what is being sung. Here you have to distinguish between structure vs content. 

Some of the best and most critically acclaimed music is intentionally poorly made and sung badly. Take the infamous "The Velvet Underground and Nico" record. For what it’s worth, this is probably my favorite record of all time (definitely up there) and perhaps one of the most influential records ever. 

So, it's more subtle than simply categorizing music as good or bad singing. There are many Aretha Franklin and Whitney Houston records that suck ass, even though the production is very neat and spotless, and both of these women are obviously incredible singers.

Edited May 19 by Nilsi

[Nilsi]

4 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

Some of the best and most critically acclaimed music is intentionally poorly made and sung badly. Take the infamous "The Velvet Underground and Nico" record. For what it’s worth, this is probably my favorite record of all time (definitely up there) and perhaps one of the most influential records ever. 

So, it's more subtle than simply categorizing music as good or bad singing. There are many Aretha Franklin and Whitney Houston records that suck ass, even though the production is very neat and spotless, and both of these women are obviously incredible singers.

This is not to say it’s all relative, though. I think a given piece of music can only be properly understood and evaluated in the context of music (and art more broadly) in its entirety. As you dive into the complexity and richness of our musical legacy, certain things start to click, and a sense of "objectivity" emerges.

That doesn’t mean you won’t have individual preferences and „taste“ regardless.

Edited May 19 by Nilsi

[Nemra]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

bad singing is very obvious regardless of what is being sung.

I think it depends on people's expectations and the context.

Edited May 20 by Nemra

[Nivsch]

There are definitely songs that have more consensus about them that they are good, than others, and many times with a big gap.

Edited May 20 by Nivsch