If You are not in Love, You are not even close to Enlightenment

[Breakingthewall]

21 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

What changes are the mental games of being the big important ME character that needs to do A, B and C to feel comfortable.

Well, maybe is not so important, but if I'm frozen I'd like a coat to feel comfortable, or if there are hungry tigers on the way to my house, I will go another way, and so on many other things. Where is the difference or the freedom? That you don't mind be eaten by the tigers?

Edited June 4 by Breakingthewall

[James123]

26 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Well, maybe is not so important, but if I'm frozen I'd like a coat to feel comfortable, or if there are hungry tigers on the way to my house, I will go another way, and so on many other things. Where is the difference or the freedom? That you don't mind be eaten by the tigers?

No he transcended the death. 😂 😂 😂 And he will say there is no one here to transcend anything, it is an illusion. Lol. 

[Breakingthewall]

57 minutes ago, James123 said:

No he transcended the death. 😂 😂 😂 And he will say there is no one here to transcend anything, it is an illusion. Lol. 

So, if you have option 1 the path with hungry tigers, and option 2 the path without tigers, which one do you choose? Even the most mystical mystic would be clear about it, unless he were a suicidal mystic. You always have to make choices, and that is the self. To say that you have transcended the self would mean being asked: what do you prefer, a strawberry ice cream or being skinned alive? and answer honestly: I don't care. you want that? it is necessary?

[James123]

22 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

So, if you have option 1 the path with hungry tigers, and option 2 the path without tigers, which one do you choose? Even the most mystical mystic would be clear about it, unless he were a suicidal mystic. You always have to make choices, and that is the self. To say that you have transcended the self would mean being asked: what do you prefer, a strawberry ice cream or being skinned alive? and answer honestly: I don't care. you want that? it is necessary?

Anyone, who ignores the still being a human either fooling themselves or just lying. Even if the person, who recognize what they really are, they are still a human, period. Even if, it is an illusion.

[Breakingthewall]

51 minutes ago, James123 said:

Anyone, who ignores the still being a human either fooling themselves or just lying. Even if the person, who recognize what they really are, they are still a human, period. Even if, it is an illusion.

Exactly. btw illusion or no illusion is a human distinction. Why illusion? Just is

[James123]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

Exactly. btw illusion or no illusion is a human distinction. Why illusion? Just is

İ mean, fundemantally self is just an illusion. What we really are is      . Or just is . However, game and being human still continues. 

[Keryo Koffa]

@James123 Trying to follow. There's an arising non-dual capital E Experiencing. Within it shapes, ideas, thoughts, a monologue, an understanding, a connecting. A voice and text retroactively classifying, labeling and dividing parts of the Experiencing which is itself part of the Experiencing and a simultaneous arising of a feeling of understanding. A feeling of a self being and influencing aspects of the Experiencing, which is an experience within the Experiencing, "I am doing all this" is a feeling and text that is an arising. But there is only Experiencing and whatever is within it appears to take a shape, but it's always an experience of an automatic process with a sense of agency continuously evolving as part of the Experiencing which itself is nothing more than a non-dual Experiencing containing disconnected parts that appear to form a self-aware gestalt within itself, but it's essentially just Experiencing being.

That means there is a self as an experience but no actual experiencer to which the Experiencing happens, right?

The experiencing contains a sensation which the feeling of a self coupled with a feeling of identification and understanding relating to the illusion of another self typing and the sensation of a previous self understanding and continuing to read ends up ultimately feeling the sensation of imagining reading "Sorry, overthinking is fun lol" as an experience arising within Experiencing.

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, James123 said:

Anyone, who ignores the still being a human either fooling themselves or just lying. Even if the person, who recognize what they really are, they are still a human, period. Even if, it is an illusion.

T

On 5/22/2024 at 11:52 PM, VeganAwake said:

 

 

 

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, James123 said:

Anyone, who ignores the still being a human either fooling themselves or just lying. Even if the person, who recognize what they really are, they are still a human, period. Even if, it is an illusion.

This doesn't make sense, but neither does life until it does.

[Keryo Koffa]

@Princess Arabia I guess he means that the universe is locked into a specific human experience even if it isn't the human per se since its equally all surroundings, others, the world and cosmos and independent of the human in question. But at the same time it is experiencing that human being self-aware and thoughts popping up. And then maaaaybe on top of that it has control over the human like a puppet so it also is the human and needs to take care of that fact... I don't really know

[James123]

4 hours ago, Keryo Koffa said:

but it's essentially just Experiencing being.

Yeap. That's how god is in human form right now. All i am trying to say is, as a self we are a human beings, but what we are is that there is nothing there.

[James123]

4 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

This doesn't make sense, but neither does life until it does.

Can you understand that what i write?

[Princess Arabia]

27 minutes ago, James123 said:

Can you understand that what i write?

I understood it but you said even if they know what they really are they are still human even if it's an illusion. To me, that really doesn't make sense. If they know what they really are how are you telling them what they are then say even if it's an illusion. Seems like you're saying if I told you I wasn't a human and told you what I was, you'll still tell me that I'm human but that's an illusion. Hmmm....can't really make sense of that. BTW, either way, I'm not telling you I'm not human; I'm just trying to clarify what I mean by doesn't make sense.

[James123]

8 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

I understood it but you said even if they know what they really are they are still human even if it's an illusion. To me, that really doesn't make sense. If they know what they really are how are you telling them what they are then say even if it's an illusion. Seems like you're saying if I told you I wasn't a human and told you what I was, you'll still tell me that I'm human but that's an illusion. Hmmm....can't really make sense of that. BTW, either way, I'm not telling you I'm not human; I'm just trying to clarify what I mean by doesn't make sense.

From absolute perspective being human is an illusion, but within the illusion, it seems so real. 

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, James123 said:

From absolute perspective being human is an illusion, but within the illusion, it seems so real. 

Ok, I see. It sure does.

[James123]

5 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

Ok, I see. It sure does.

🥂 Cheers my friend 🥂 

[Javfly33]

21 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yes sure, the idea of you, but if you break a bone , there is pain right? That's existence. Then, what's the point to remove the illusion of the you? Pain is the same.

Body creates pain as a way to signal information of the state of the body, just like the panel of control of your laptop or phone about if the CPU is very hot or the battery is low. 

But the suffering about the pain is where the I exist, and they say if there is not an I then there can not be any suffering because the suffering is a reaction to the pain (fear+panic of dying) 

When there is not an I that can have fear or panic about death, they say suffering about the pain disappears.

So pain is experienced as you would experience reading the 'LOW BATTERY' indicator on your phone. Just like pure information. 

 

[Javfly33]

Couple of real examples:

• Peter Ralston: He said it didn´t require anaesthesia when going to the dentist.
• Sadhguru: When he fell on his bike and required stitches by the doctor in a rural aerea, the doctor said that he couldn´t stitch him because he had no morphine. But sadhguru said he didn't care because he couldn´t wait for the medicine to arrive. 

Both of them support the affirmation that pain still exists (because is information, just like your Battery Indicator), but pain disappears (sensation of an 'I' existing anywhere is completely gone). 

When you are enlightened basically you understand human body completely as a machine, as you understand your phone or laptop. Completely crystal clear is not you.

Edited June 5 by Javfly33

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Javfly33 said:

Body creates pain as a way to signal information of the state of the body, just like the panel of control of your laptop or phone about if the CPU is very hot or the battery is low. 

But the suffering about the pain is where the I exist, and they say if there is not an I then there can not be any suffering because the suffering is a reaction to the pain (fear+panic of dying) 

When there is not an I that can have fear or panic about death, they say suffering about the pain disappears.

So pain is experienced as you would experience reading the 'LOW BATTERY' indicator on your phone. Just like pure information. 

 

15 hours ago, James123 said:

İ. 

Agree, but the fact is that pain creates the self because it is designed to create the urgency to do something, and thus survive. If you are, let's say, enlightened, that is, you perceive total reality through form, and you are slowly roasted on a grill or tortured by a professional torturer, in my opinion you will stop being enlightened during that time.

That is, the perception will be totally focused on the form, and that form will be extreme pain. If you bury Sadhguru or Ralston in an anthill of carnivorous ants for a few hours, I would say that their enlightenment would disappear completely. 

Of course, some people could train themselves to support extreme pain. Muhammad Ali endured beatings of maximum intensity smiling, a medieval warrior fought until he bled to death from multiple wounds and broken bones that would have made Ali faint, and the guy who set himself on fire at the US embassy in Vietnam without lifting a finger surpassed them both. 

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Agree, but the fact is that pain creates the self because it is designed to create the urgency to do something, and thus survive. If you are, let's say, enlightened, that is, you perceive total reality through form, and you are slowly roasted on a grill or tortured by a professional torturer, in my opinion you will stop being enlightened during that time.

That is, the perception will be totally focused on the form, and that form will be extreme pain. If you bury Sadhguru or Ralston in an anthill of carnivorous ants for a few hours, I would say that their enlightenment would disappear completely. 

Of course, some people could train themselves to support extreme pain. Muhammad Ali endured beatings of maximum intensity smiling, a medieval warrior fought until he bled to death from multiple wounds and broken bones that would have made Ali faint, and the guy who set himself on fire at the US embassy in Vietnam without lifting a finger surpassed them both. 

I get that, neither of those two are perfect in the sense that if they Still have physical forms some kind of survival instinct must be there, but ideally is taken to a minimum and is at a certain distance from them at all times.

But if you can handle certain amount of pain with no sense of friction , then you have a lot of work done already .

Of course that doesn't mean that if turns out you get the Worst of tortures you Will feel completely fine, enlightment seems like a spectrum, probably nobody Alive in a body is untouchable if we push them in the Worst way, but if they have 80% of pain handled is great news. Means the work is real, is not just saying you are God and you are Dreaming everything