Pure Consciousness Is Better?

[zazed]

@Dodoster procrastinating is where i do my best work

[SOUL]

With enlightenment there is much to personal experience and that is subjectively attained understanding.

Too often people think that because they had a personal enlightenment experience of understanding that matches what their teacher, if they have one, or others have had it makes it more credible.

Even if a million "enlightened" seekers agree with what I have found in my own enlightenment revelation it doesn't make it any more "universally true" than if not one other agrees.

When someone says "it is all one", that's personal revelation, when someone says "it is all nothingness" it's personal revelation, when it's said "there is no self" this is more personal revelation.

When they say, "this is the way it is for everyone" so assenting a universal truth for all from their own personal revelation it is exercising a paradigm of limiting belief.

Edited April 18, 2017 by SOUL
grammar

[Dodo]

4 minutes ago, SOUL said:

 

When someone says "it is all one", that's personal revelation, when someone says "it is all nothingness" it's personal revelation, when it's said "there is no self" this is more personal revelation.

When they say, "this is the way it is for everyone" so assenting a universal truth for all from their own personal revelation it is exercising a paradigm of limiting belief.

I'm gonna be smart and say if you had the 1st here, then you can say the latter without it being a limiting belief :D, because if it's a personal revelation that it is all one, then this is the way it is for everyone, because there is only one.

I'm just being a clever lawyer, now I will shut up

[LRyan]

You cannot actually be nothing or be just awareness period.  You ARE a human body right now and nothing, no thing, no amount of awareness or understanding or intellect will change the fact that you are in a human body and because of that you will have a human experience.  Being manifested as a body is the only way consciousness can have an experience in object consciousness.

It's all good that we have the intellect to discover that we are not this body or mind but, we ARE this body an mind right now.  Until your physical body dies, you can't be just awareness floating around in peace and love because you are a body with a mind.  ALL spiritual enlightened beings still had to walk around using legs and arms and eating and going to the bathroom.  WE cannot escape the body we are in.......I don't believe we can be other than a physical body while we are alive on earth.  I'ts like we all want to just turn into a divine spirit RIGHT NOW.  We will soon enough, when we transcend our body upon death.  Then we can all be what we seem to want right now.  To me all of us trying to be a spirit with mystical properties that do not co-relate to a physical body is not possible in that sense.  Yes, we know what we truly are but we can't fully know it at the moment that we are in physical form...

Pure consciousness isn't possible for the human being...................This is my UNPROFESSIONAL opinion.  

Mental masturbation hurts!  It's called suffering!

Edited April 18, 2017 by LRyan

[zazed]

i think it means there may be one experience, but it's so unexplainable that it is explained in various ways because each brain/body explaining it, is explaining it from it's limited perspective. 

[SOUL]

2 minutes ago, Dodoster said:

I'm gonna be smart and say if you had the 1st here, then you can say the latter without it being a limiting belief :D, because if it's a personal revelation that it is all one, then this is the way it is for everyone, because there is only one.

I'm just being a clever lawyer, now I will shut up

When someone says a personal revelation is a universal truth for everyone it is a limiting belief, they are limiting, in their own mind, what they think others can have revealed to them personally in their enlightenment. They are also limiting themselves to the belief, by clinging to a paradigm they believe in and not allowing their mind to continue enlightening..

[West]

I'm not sure whether we can actually answer the 'why' questions. I'm not enlightened yet, but when I turn my awareness to the subject I can't find any answer to the 'why'. 

Here's Rupert Spira's take on the matter. What he says seems reasonable I guess, but I don't know how he can know whether what he is saying is actually true.

 

[Dodo]

2 minutes ago, SOUL said:

When someone says a personal revelation is a universal truth for everyone it is a limiting belief, they are limiting, in their own mind, what they think others can have revealed to them personally in their enlightenment. They are also limiting themselves to the belief, by clinging to a paradigm they believe in and not allowing their mind to continue enlightening..

But if they truly know from their own experience that there is only one, like for a fact, beyond doubt/belief, that means the ultimate, does it not? There is a difference between personal belief and realising the ultimate truth through your own experience. 

I think the statement : "Everyone has their own truth" is a childish statement designed to not hurt a single ego/mind in attempt for everyone to be happy with their understanding of reality... But I think egos should be shattered, even mine right now, fucking shatter me

 

[West]

3 minutes ago, Dodoster said:

I think the statement : "Everyone has their own truth" is a childish statement designed to not hurt a single ego/mind in attempt for everyone to be happy with their understanding of reality... But I think egos should be shattered, even mine right now, fucking shatter me

Lol, that's beautifully savage. It's a great attitude for self-inquiry!

[SOUL]

@Dodoster would you say the same thing about the ultimate truth of Christians? What about Muslims? Any of the religions?

How about mine? Does my personal revelation subject you to it?

 

Edited April 18, 2017 by SOUL

[zazed]

what is the ego but memories of the past haunting our thoughts?

I experienced it then, so it must be so. Who!? being was being in the past?

Edited April 18, 2017 by zazed

[Dodo]

2 minutes ago, SOUL said:

@Dodoster would you say the same thing about the ultimate truth of Christians? What about Muslims? Any of the religions?

How about mine? Does my personal revelation subject you to it?

 

Think the ultimate truth of all religions is the same....... If it is of the mind, it can't be ultimate, because mind is changeful, the ultimate truth HAS to be non-conceptual, it HAS to be the ultimate, no matter what anyone thinks or believes, it HAS to be the truth like always without a doubt even if nobody knows it. We have to see what can that "thing" be that cannot be challenged and is always and true for everyone, absolutely everyone and anything. The ultimate truth, no less 

[SOUL]

4 hours ago, Dodoster said:

Think the ultimate truth of all religions is the same....... If it is of the mind, it can't be ultimate, because mind is changeful, the ultimate truth HAS to be non-conceptual, it HAS to be the ultimate, no matter what anyone thinks or believes, it HAS to be the truth like always without a doubt even if nobody knows it. We have to see what can that "thing" be that cannot be challenged and is always and true for everyone, absolutely everyone and anything. The ultimate truth, no less 

All religions are the same? So the one that says people are going to hell to be tormented for eternity unless they believe a certain way is the same as your own ideas?

Edited April 19, 2017 by SOUL