A Metaphor On Enlightenment?

[WaterfallMachine]

So as you can see I'm a newbie on this forum and I've been watching the video on the intro on Enlightenment. The thing is, I thought I was entirely new to this concept but after watching it and  meditating in many different ways for 5 years for nearly everyday for at least 20 minutes (Which can go to 40-60 minutes if like) with daily mindfulness (like eating and walking), I could see how meditation introduced this concept to me in different ways in the past. It was like in different sources, I was getting different pictures of the zoomed in body parts of a giant and Leo actually showed me a full body picture of who the giant is.

Just going to make a metaphor here to see if I understand the concept well. Tell me what you think about it please. If it's bad or good or anything. If you agree, disagree or are not sure.

It reminds me of the term "many" or "little" argued in philosophy. Imagine a grain of sand and a whole pile of sand. Where does it become little to many? At 50 grains of sand? At 1,000 grains of sand. Isn't it a weird concept to think of the number before it as small? 49 grains of sand is small? 999 grains of sand is small? Different people can argue different numbers for what is little or many. 

How many meters does it take for something to become near to far? How many minutes does a short time become a long time? 

It's like ourselves. Where does our parts of ourselves become us? You can put a line somewhere or a line another place but probably no one can agree on where it is. It's vague. It doesn't seem to be anywhere. And any labels are more generalizations or guides than  the truth is.

I remember a meditation practice I had for 10 days that taught me about this. It was a meditation on noticing change (Source : Headspace) in your surroundings, in your thoughts and in your feelings. You might label yourself as "a grumpy person" or a "happy person" but when I noticed what I experienced, was that these emotions were always changing in subtle or large ways. You might think of yourself as a person ruled by your heart or head but I noticed that I could be one at times and another one at times. With this, many labels seemed rather vague. And strangely it seemed, in my daily life I was better able to separate what things are with what things I label actually is. And with that, allowed greater insight, better decisions and calmness. I didn't jump to the worst conclusions from anxiety or best conclusions from excitement when it came to the future as much a sense before. It was more "I observed this and this and that. Most likely it is this from what I observed but I don't know for sure. The rest I don't know." I was so afraid of not having labels, a full understanding, a certainty to things even if the certainty in being able to "know" things were bad. Now I'm just fine not knowing most of the time.

Edited April 18, 2017 by WaterfallMachine

[SOUL]

What you are illustrating is the trap of the dualism mindset. To be able to create identity the ego constructs poles in the mind to orient itself.

Which is why I laugh with an infinite laughter when people refer to nothingness, that's a mindset still trapped in dualism.

I find that the same dualism mindset is revealed from the belief in the concept of true and false.

Enlightenment is the process of illuminating, it begins in when we consciously make the effort to do so and can continue infinitely.

[Barna]

@SOUL you are pointing to the non-symbolic consciousness, aren't you? 

Are you able to live your daily life without attaching meaning to "things"? If so, how do you manage to do it? 

[SOUL]

@Barna Well, symbolism is us attaching 'meaning' to something, right?

Things are what they are. Fire is fire and it has properties that can have uses, it can warm us on a cold night but it can also burn us.

The symbology comes in when we apply attributes to fire that aren't naturally inherent of it, what it 'means' to us.

So we are symbolizing fire as something other than the element's natural properties and effects.

Duality is often expressed in symbolic terms but isn't limited to it. Symbolism can be expressed in dualism but isn't limited to it.

Oh and how to manage it is to live life physically on the inherent properties of things even if we are pursuing a deeper perception of enlightenment.

Even if we think it's an illusion, the bus will hurt if it hits us, jump!

Edited April 18, 2017 by SOUL
added comment

[Barna]

39 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Even if we think it's an illusion, the bus will hurt if it hits us, jump!

The bus will hurt us, but the pain is just a rush of energy in our body, it isn't inherently "bad", but we attach a "bad" meaning to it. So how do you make decisions if things don't have meaning to you? Or do decisions just happen without attached meaning to the decision itself?  

[SOUL]

1 minute ago, Barna said:

The bus will hurt us, but the pain is just a rush of energy in our body, it isn't inherently "bad", but we attach a "bad" meaning to it. So how do you make decisions if things don't have meaning to you? Or do decisions just happen without attached meaning to the decision itself?  

Who said anything about "bad"? I didn't. Pain is what it is, regardless of what it "means" to us.

 

 

[Barna]

17 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Who said anything about "bad"? I didn't. Pain is what it is, regardless of what it "means" to us.

Well, obviously I did.
What I'm pointing out is that I don't see how decisions are made when things don't have meaning. I don't see why I'm avoiding pain even if I'm trying not to attach meanings to it. 

Edited April 19, 2017 by Barna

[SOUL]

33 minutes ago, Barna said:

Well, obviously I did.
What I'm pointing out is that I don't see how decisions are made when things don't have meaning. I don't see why I'm avoiding pain even if I'm trying not to attach meanings to it. 

I'm not one of the people who confuses "illusion" for "does not exist", things are what they are regardless of what we perceive them as.

If you don't value living your life for whatever reason then you may not see any value in retaining the information to keep yourself alive and prospering.

I'm not here to explain to you "why" you should, that's up to you to figure out. Sometimes self-inquiry can instead be over thinking it.

[Barna]

How can life be valued over death if non of them have any inherent meaning? 

They are equally lovable as one.

Thank you for the understanding, @SOUL, I love our conversations.

[SOUL]

@Barna  Why don't you ask a dog, cat or bird you come across "why" they act to keep life if there is no meaning, I'm sure the answer would be enlightening. Hehe

[Barna]

They seek comfort. But for us, humans, comfort is not enough, we feel the need for growth. And my understanding is that everything helps us to grow.

[FirstglimpseOMG]

In my opinion everything has meaning. Every second of experience has profound meaning. Why? Because you are here to experience life. If you are experiencing life, then you are present and aware. If you are present and aware, it is for a reason. No fluke. You are life itself, experiencing itself, awakening to itself to whatever extent, and that is where the meaning lies. It means that life is meant to be for the pure simplicity of being, as opposed to not being. Good life, bad life, asleep life, awakening life, indifferent life, the definitions and distictions don't hold the meaning, or reason for existence, the existence of life itself holds all the base meaning. Otherwise, in my understanding we just wouldn't 'be' at all. 

A little simplistic and blankety, I know, but ...how can there be no meaning to the existence of nature? The existence itself is the meaning.