What is the martial arts trap?

[Danioover9000]

@Leo Gura

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Frankly, the way all these fights break out is when two fat egos clash and neither one wants to step away.

The best way to win a fight is to just not bring your ego into a situation so no fight materializes.

When it comes to fighting, ego is the biggest trap.

   Of course, but in some cases quitting or running away is extremely cowardly, like if someone is assaulting your GF or family there's no longer any peaceful resolution there, you have to fight back. Therefore not all fighting is driven by 2 fat egos clashing, sometimes fighting is necessary for defending yourself or your loved one from a more selfish monster.

[Davino]

@Leo Gura De-escalation is an art in this regard, there's many literature on the subject.

I'm sure this conversation has many connections in the collective sphere with wars and conflict in general now that I'm thinking about it.

Edited May 26 by Davino

[Davino]

2 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

like if someone is assaulting your GF or family there's no longer any peaceful resolution there, you have to fight back. Therefore not all fighting is driven by 2 fat egos clashing, sometimes fighting is necessary for defending yourself or your loved one from a more selfish monster.

Yes, but that's the exception. De-escalation will work most of the time and if it doesn't you didn't have many options to begin with

[Butters]

26 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Leo Gura

   Of course, but in some cases quitting or running away is extremely cowardly, like if someone is assaulting your GF or family there's no longer any peaceful resolution there, you have to fight back. Therefore not all fighting is driven by 2 fat egos clashing, sometimes fighting is necessary for defending yourself or your loved one from a more selfish monster.

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

 

That's ego, there's still mature ways to settle such a situation. But only if you're extremely calm and assertive. Actually, doesn't need to be calm but you need good people skills. You don't think Dave Chapelle or Rogan could settle such a situation without becoming violent? 

High status celebrities are in those situations quite often and they have to remain calm or else their career could be over. Remaining collected under stress is actually a sign of high status and expected of high status individuals. 

Example of Rogan being in such a situation:

https://youtube.com/shorts/Cu_azsrQ2WI?si=Nc0Z1qvUxLglwb95

Fighting as real self defense when you're being attacked yes, of course

Edit: I did assume you meant verbal abuse or being bothered outside. If you meant physical abuse that's a different story. 

Edited May 26 by Butters

[Butters]

Great video about real world fights. 

[Leo Gura]

22 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

like if someone is assaulting your GF or family there's no longer any peaceful resolution there,

This is a fantasy sort of scenario. Doesn't really happen.

The core fantasy behind all these fighters is that these fighter skills will somehow be necessary in the real world. They won't. This is just an excuse to play macho and justify your training. Realistically your kids will get shot in school by some nutcase with a gun while you are at home watching YT. And that's about it. All your training will be useless and is done to feed your own insecure ego.

Alpha bro fantasy sports.

Edited May 26 by Leo Gura

[Butters]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Realistically your kids will get shot in school by some nutcase with a gun. 

American education has really gone to shits huh 

[Davino]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The core fantasy behind all these fighters is that these fighter skills will somehow be necessary in the real world. They won't. This is just an excuse to play macho and justify your training. All your training will be useless and is done to feed your own insecure ego.

Alpha bro fantasy sports.

That's a legit trap.

Although playing the devil's advocate, I don't see how playing tennis is a skill you will need in "the real world" either.

Among all invented sports, martial arts are the most connected to primal human nature and can significantly enhance your survival skills in various scenarios. Additionally, swimming is an excellent holistic sport that promotes overall health and may also improve survival skills.

[Danioover9000]

@Butters

3 hours ago, Butters said:

That's ego, there's still mature ways to settle such a situation. But only if you're extremely calm and assertive. Actually, doesn't need to be calm but you need good people skills. You don't think Dave Chapelle or Rogan could settle such a situation without becoming violent? 

High status celebrities are in those situations quite often and they have to remain calm or else their career could be over. Remaining collected under stress is actually a sign of high status and expected of high status individuals. 

Example of Rogan being in such a situation:

https://youtube.com/shorts/Cu_azsrQ2WI?si=Nc0Z1qvUxLglwb95

Fighting as real self defense when you're being attacked yes, of course

Edit: I did assume you meant verbal abuse or being bothered outside. If you meant physical abuse that's a different story. 

   I meant the most extreme, when a guy is assaulting, sexually, high on drugs/alcohol your GF, therefore it's extremely cowardly to run away and not fight the person off. I was responding to Leo there, and also the other user saying the de-escalation stuff.

   The verbal violence, the heated conflicts in social situations, that's a bit different. Also not talking about celebrities but average people.

Edited May 26 by Danioover9000

[Danioover9000]

@Leo Gura

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This is a fantasy sort of scenario. Doesn't really happen.

The core fantasy behind all these fighters is that these fighter skills will somehow be necessary in the real world. They won't. This is just an excuse to play macho and justify your training. Realistically your kids will get shot in school by some nutcase with a gun while you are at home watching YT. And that's about it. All your training will be useless and is done to feed your own insecure ego.

Alpha bro fantasy sports.

   You really think it doesn't happen? It's a fantasy sort of scenario that Robberies, burglars, battery, assault, domestic violence, gang violence doesn't happen in Ghettos, streets and slums, and in Chicago or in NYC Jersey? Also, what is/isn't necessary for fighting skills is dictated by environment and situation where it happens and when it happens. How is that an excuse to play macho and justify training...like you think you're assuming too much here? Not everyone wants to be alpha male/female and do martial arts to beat up everyone! Alpha bro fantasy sports...😂  

[Danioover9000]

@Davino

3 hours ago, Davino said:

@Leo Gura De-escalation is an art in this regard, there's many literature on the subject.

I'm sure this conversation has many connections in the collective sphere with wars and conflict in general now that I'm thinking about it.

    Ok.

3 hours ago, Davino said:

Yes, but that's the exception. De-escalation will work most of the time and if it doesn't you didn't have many options to begin with

   Well, I was talking about the exception with @Leo Gura. So, de-escalation will work most of the time? What are you assuming here about de-escalation working most of the time and not working? What do you mean I didn't have any options if de-escalation wasn't working?

[LSD-Rumi]

@Danioover9000 Just buy a pepper spray. It is better than any martial art.

[Danioover9000]

   This further proves the point this is a trap. After about 15 years he celebrates egotistically:

   But also, a second TRAP! Which captures both of them! Notice how the white guy was done giving his take and mentions purist takes on martial arts and wrestlers maybe working on strikes better, or stickers working on wrestling better, alluding to how hyper specializing in one style is insufficient...that's the trap of purism, and the antidote to that is the philosophy from Jeet Kune Do, and Krav Maga, the philosophy of pragmatism and 'taking what works, discarding the rest.'.

[Danioover9000]

@LSD-Rumi

18 minutes ago, LSD-Rumi said:

@Danioover9000 Just buy a pepper spray. It is better than any martial art.

   Yes, buy a pepper spray, also a gun, a knife, maybe brass knuckles, and a Nun Chucks...down the rabbit hole of self defense weapons collecting I go!😂

[LSD-Rumi]

5 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@LSD-Rumi

   Yes, buy a pepper spray, also a gun, a knife, maybe brass knuckles, and a Nun Chucks...down the rabbit hole of self defense weapons collecting I go!😂

No, pepper spray will be sufficient for 90% of all encounters, it is like the 5 meo of self-defense.

[Davino]

16 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

So, de-escalation will work most of the time? What are you assuming here about de-escalation working most of the time and not working?

The art of reducing conflict instead of making it worse. Most of the times people don't search problems, good de-escalation skills will end up most situations with no conflict.

16 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

What do you mean I didn't have any options if de-escalation wasn't working?

They already made up the decision to assault you before interacting with you and they are just searching an excuse to start the confrontation. In this case, de-escalation didn't work; why? Because you didn't have many options to begin with because they already took the decision to assault you. They literally got out of home with the decision made to have an altercation. This happens, particularly among violent groups.

[Davino]

4 hours ago, LSD-Rumi said:

No, pepper spray will be sufficient for 90% of all encounters

Yes, it's good. But you also need practice and accuracy. There are different types of sprays. The ones that work for multiple oponents can also spray you if there is wind against you and they don't have much range. The ones with foam have longer range but just work with one oponent and accuracy is harder.

There are many variables but it's true that hands down an spray is one of the best self-defence options. Also the laws are very light even for misuse as they are designed to be very painful and shocking in the moment but benign next morning.

[Danioover9000]

@LSD-Rumi

9 hours ago, LSD-Rumi said:

No, pepper spray will be sufficient for 90% of all encounters, it is like the 5 meo of self-defense.

   I'll consider that, plus a taser and BB gun. 

[LSD-Rumi]

7 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

plus a taser and BB gun. 

Tasers are stupid, they have a very short range.

 

7 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

BB gun. 

not practical and will put you in trouble

[Danioover9000]

   Wow, I actually didn't know this much about the Gracie's and this Rolls Gracie being genius, hated so much for even cross training styles. Purism trap right here, one that Bruce was also fighting against in his time: